doubting Quran
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somebody took the trouble of fast reading an unbelievable 38,000 books in search of the roots of religion and placed his findings here http//19.org/forum/index.php/m/48399/1240/#msg_48399
Lengthy messages but excellent food for the free minded.
I have barely had a year of academic physics education and I can see it for the gobbledegook that is. What a waste of 28 years, it would have been better spent working in McDonalds. Now I won't judge the author's mind but what is presented makes roughly as much sense as saying 2=0. Oh wait.
Here's an excerpt
It is understood that God and Satan is the smallest spiral possible, as the center fountain, because the smaller the spin of space, the higher is its frequency, and "higher controls the lower". Universe began in the simplest terms, that being the first curving of a portion of space (magic carpet parable), spiraling ever larger, representing one cycle of the torus and from the multiplication of the torus, by division, there was then another, representing Satan, only if it was spinning exactly as the other, thus repulsive. God/Satan, the opposing spirals, is found in the simplest beginning and also at the end because all spiralings that exist today, are exactly the same as the first spiral called Anu or God. There was only zero and another zero to begin universe. These pairs either spin exactly the same (++, - -, repulsion) or exactly opposite (+-, attraction). String Theory is based upon this pair. 10 Most religions are all about this pair. All human conflict and attraction is the play of this pair. Even the Romans noticed, in a ancient quote, "Daemon est Deus Inversus", meaning "God is daemon when on the lowest plane of existence". If you haven't noticed yet, all of us are trapped in the lowest plane of existence, for a short time. Our forward Self might ask, "If our Creations beginnings were only zero and another zero, representing God and Satan, or yin-yang, should we regard these only as spatial dynamics?"
To which I may respond
In the context of topological field theory we consider that the initial singularity of space-time corresponds to a zero size singular gravitational instanton characterized by a Riemannian metric configuration (++++) in dimension D = 4. Connected with some unexpected topological data corresponding to the zero scale of space-time, the initial singularity is thus not considered in terms of divergences of physical fields but can be resolved in the frame of topological field theory. We get this result from the physical observation that the pre-spacetime is in a thermal equilibrium at the Planck scale. Therefore it should be subject to the KMS condition. We consequently consider that this KMS state might correspond to a unification between "physical state" (Planck scale) and "topological state" (zero scale). Then it is suggested that the "zero scale singularity" can be understood in terms of topological invariants, in particular the first Donaldson invariant. Therefore, we here introduce a new topological index, connected with 0 scale, of the form Z_{beta = 0} = Tr (-1)^s, which we call the "singularity invariant". Interestingly, this invariant corresponds also to the invariant topological current yielded by the hyperfinite II* von Neumann algebra describing the zero scale of space-time. In such a context we conjecture that the problem of inertial interaction might be explained in terms of topological amplitude connected with the singular zero size gravitational instanton corresponding to the initial singularity of spacetime.
I wonder if this same dude who read 38,000 books also collected 600,000 hadeeths for us to hear a few centuries ago. Maybe he read 38,000 rolls of used high-grade Andrex toilet paper. Who knows.
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Peace
If somebody killed someone intentionally, the judge has the right to sentence him to death, which what the verse prescribe; or if someone is about to kill you, you have the right to defend yourself (killing in self defense).
If you choose to let the person kill you, and not defend yourself, then it is your choice; but if you were a judge, and you chose to set a killer free from death penalty, then you committed unjust to the family of the person who was killed.That is how I interpret it.
PeaceNo the verse thats relevant is not that. The Koran emcourages pardon when it talks about an eye for an eye. It also mention exile as a possible punishment for murder which is equivalent to jail.
Chapter 5
32. On that account We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.-
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;
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Except for those who repent before they fall into your power in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful
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We ordained therein for them "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.
I see the verses as saying do not take another life unless he murdered but you can punish in other ways as long as its less severe than capital punishment. This verse is to counter the Judaic claim who through Talmud put a spin on it and later the Sunnis did the same.
The Schindler's List Quote
The Talmud (i.e., the Babylonian Talmud) text of Sanhedrin 37a restricts the duty to save life to saving only Jewish lives.
The book on Hebrew censorship, written by Jews themselves (Hesronot Ha-shas), notes that some Talmud texts use the universalist phrase
"Whoever destroys the life of a single human being...it is as if he had destroyed an entire world; and whoever preserves the life of a single human being ...it is as if he had preserved an entire world."
However, Hesronot Ha-shas points out that these are not the authentic words of the original Talmud.
In other words, the preceding universalist rendering is not the authentic text of the Talmud and thus, for example, this universalist version which Steven Spielberg in his famous movie, Schindler's List attributed to the Talmud (and which became the motto of the movie on posters and in advertisements), is a hoax and constitutes propaganda intended to give a humanistic gloss to a Talmud which is, in its essence, racist and chauvinist hate literature.
In the authentic, original Talmud text it states that "whoever preserves a single soul of Israel, it is as if he had preserved an entire world" (emphasis supplied). The authentic Talmud text sanctions only the saving of Jewish lives. http//www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html
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This doesn't make sense, in the old testament Moses orders the israelites to murder all women, children, and men on their land, and GOD in old testament says to destroy the people that hurt them when they left egypt, so how can you say Bible is nice and teaches good things when quran talks about fighting too but it was direct orders not to hurt the women or children. That's not the case in the bible
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Peace be unto you, sister,
May God guide you to the Truth.
3336, 491 among others.
and look at 528! at Abel's example to his brother. why then, couldn't or didn't the early Muslims follow this example, and why is this "turning of the other cheek" not upheld as a universal rule elsewhere?
Because God hates oppression more than murder. Instead of turning His believers into wholesale martyrs, God in His Wisdom has allowed us to defend our homes, our family, and our lands from the oppressors.
and 9111 says that the Injeel encouraged those who followed it to slay, whereas Jesus never said such a thing. and why are all other Biblical examples of others rising up to kill condemned in the strongest language, whereas Muhammed and his followers are given God's blessings to do so?
You sure Jesus never said such a thing? I recommend reading John 1836 and the parable in Luke 1927.
We fight when we have reason to fight. Unless we are physically persecuted or driven from our homes, we are to act in a peacful accord with all.
Pray for guidance, and be wary of the Church doctrine being fed to the populace. It is a doctrine of lies from the deceiver, no matter how sweet it sounds.
Peace and blessings.
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Gaijin ~
thank you for your responses, and i've been reading the responses of others, too.
as i talk with more people, on-line and off, i do sincerely hope that the future for Islam is more Quran-alone centered.
at the same time, i hope that dialog and freedom of faith will be values appreciated by more across the Muslim world, as will virtues of forgiveness, and moderation in judgment.
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Peace Ayani,
as i talk with more people, on-line and off, i do sincerely hope that the future for Islam is more Quran-alone centered.
at the same time, i hope that dialog and freedom of faith will be values appreciated by more across the Muslim world, as will virtues of forgiveness, and moderation in judgment
So you have found peace in the Bible and not in the Quran. Do you mind telling us how or why?
handshake
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Go to the Sunnah and the Seerah of the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wassalam) to get clarification and a better understanding of the events mentioned in the Qur'an.
Peace,
Respectfully.I have asked many sunnis what exactly is sunna - a book or verbal tradition and they canot make up their mind up to this date. Therefore, do not go to any other book other Then The Quran. The Quran has answers for everything.
Peace.
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Hello. The Quran has answers for everything?
2213 The people used to be one nation, then God sent the prophets as
bearers of good news and warners, and.........
339 The angels called to him while he was standing, outreaching, in the temple enclosure ?God gives you glad tidings of John,
authenticating the word from God, and a master, and steadfast,
and a prophet from the upright.?......What is really meant by the word 'prophet' then? I have asked this question a lot of times but the answers given go no further than variants for word like 'warner' etc...
What are the meanings of the words Michael and Gabriel? The quran does not even explain certain words which it contains.I belive it is quite premature to say the quran has answers for everything. I did not mean to offend anyone..If it is anything, it would be sheer curiosity that makes me/anybody else seek the meanings. I am sure that are lot of places/things that quran does not have explanations to. We are in the dark as sunnis are when it comes to certain issues.
thank you and regards. peace
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salaam
verse 2179 must be read in context. some translations
YUSUFALI In the Law of Equality there is (saving of) Life to you, o ye men of understanding; that ye may restrain yourselves.
PICKTHAL And there is life for you in retaliation, O men of understanding, that ye may ward off (evil).
SHAKIR And there is life for you in (the law of) retaliation, O men of understanding, that you may guard yourselves.the critical word in this sentence is 'hayatun' (sorry, i couldn't see the formatting tools). it is usually understood as 'life', but 'hayatun' also means 'bestiality' or 'animalistic behaviour'.
in my comprehension, the first part of 2.179 is 'And to you about 'qisas' is bestiality...." or "And to you (pl.) 'qisas' is bestiality...."
without prejudice please.
peace
joeYou saying God is promoting bestiality? o
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salaam
verse 2179 must be read in context. some translations
YUSUFALI In the Law of Equality there is (saving of) Life to you, o ye men of understanding; that ye may restrain yourselves.
PICKTHAL And there is life for you in retaliation, O men of understanding, that ye may ward off (evil).
SHAKIR And there is life for you in (the law of) retaliation, O men of understanding, that you may guard yourselves.the critical word in this sentence is 'hayatun' (sorry, i couldn't see the formatting tools). it is usually understood as 'life', but 'hayatun' also means 'bestiality' or 'animalistic behaviour'.
in my comprehension, the first part of 2.179 is 'And to you about 'qisas' is bestiality...." or "And to you (pl.) 'qisas' is bestiality...."
without prejudice please.
peace
joeSo you are saying that it says "Equivalence is a bestial law for you, O you who possess intelligence, that you may be righteous"?
The following makes more sense
2179 Equivalence is a life saving law for you, O you who possess intelligence, that you may be righteous.
OR
2179 There is life for you in the law of Just Recompense, O You who use your intellect! This is so that you may live in security.
hayat = life
Peace