FIVE DAILY SALAWAT IN ISLAM AND ZOROASTRIANISM

vivek

Peace Progressive1993,

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What the video shows is just a worship of God done by Samaritan Jews by kneeling and prostrating as commanded by God in his scriptures as well as an ancient tradition to show mere respect/obedience to fellow humans that was prevalent in almost all human communities as can been seen in Hebrew scriptures and the Quran. But it does NOT constitute part of Salat/Yajna/Yasna at all. Salat is an entirely different form of worship as I explained in detail in my previous posts. For further details on what makes it worship, please visit the link below

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598059.msg196719#msg196719

Furthermore, Jews are explicitly mentioned as "People of the Book". Zoroastrians arent. Although they fall under the category of "Sabians" (followers of other religions).

The Quran is narrating only the stories of peoples who had lived in countries adjacent to (Saudi)Arabia and does not talk about people who had lived in Europe, Americas, Indian Sub-continent or far eastern countries. It does not even speak about Zoroastrians who lived in Persia (Iranian) nor Sabaeans who lived in the southern part of Arabia(Yemen) who are neighbours to Arabians except in a hint in two verses referring to them as Majusis and Sabians!!!

As such, in this context, when the Quran talks about people of the Book it obviously refers to Israelis(Jews) and Nazarenes(not the so-called christians but followers of Jesus). But it does not mean that only Israelis and Nazarenes received book from God and hence the only people of the Book. It is totally untrue and ignorant notion. As God says in the Quran, there are many prophets who are not mentioned in the Quran. It means there are many more peoples who had received God's books though not mentioned in the Quran. Such peoples include Persians(Zoroastrians), Indians(Hindus), Greeks, Romans, Chinese(Taoists) and many more.

Hinduism is a polytheistic religion. The are Mushriks.

How do you know Hinduism is a polytheistic religion? What is your basis for this conclusion? You are absolutely wrong and kept in the dark. You are only commenting on Hinduism even without knowing the basisc of Hinduism. Hinduism is a revealed monotheistic religion just like Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Taoism, Islam but has been corrupted just like other monotheistic religions.

Is Buddhism monotheistic?

Siddhartha(Gautama Buddha) resembles Yeshua(Jesus) in many ways. Just like Jesus, Buddha was NOT given a law making book by God to institute a new religion but they received a book from God containing moral teachings, prophecies, warnings,etc. Just as Jesus was subject to follow Mosaic law(Torah), Buddha was subject to follow Vedic law(Vedas).

Peace

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

Peace Vivek

What the video shows is just a worship of God done by Samaritan Jews by kneeling and prostrating as commanded by God in his scriptures as well as an ancient tradition to show mere respect/obedience to fellow humans that was prevalent in almost all human communities as can been seen in Hebrew scriptures and the Quran. But it does NOT constitute part of Salat/Yajna/Yasna at all.

He is not a Samaritan Jew, he is an Orthodox Jew
Did you click on ALL of the links?
If Salat is only your incense burning stuff, then I guess all Jews, Muslims, etc. etc. who are not doing are wrong.
In fact Incense Burning is used in SATANISM, NEO-PAGANISM, TAOISM, BUDDHISM, CATHOLICISM, EASTERN CHURCHES and BUDDHISM. They set up partners/are idolaters (mushriks) and/or they are kafirs (rejecters).

Salat is an entirely different form of worship as I explained in detail in my previous posts. For further details on what makes it worship, please visit the link below

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598059.msg196719#msg196719

Your Buddhist incense burning has no Quranic basis whatsoever.

243 Observe the Contact Prayer (Salat), and contribute towards betterment (Zakat), and bow with those who bow.

Please tell me where incense burning is mentioned in the Quran - I probably missed it.
Please dont use your atheist Buddhist scriptures or your polytheistic Hindu scriptures.

The Quran is narrating only the stories of peoples who had lived in countries adjacent to (Saudi)Arabia and does not talk about people who had lived in Europe, Americas, Indian Sub-continent or far eastern countries. It does not even speak about Zoroastrians who lived in Persia (Iranian) nor Sabaeans who lived in the southern part of Arabia(Yemen) who are neighbours to Arabians except in a hint in two verses referring to them as Majusis and Sabians!!!

569 "Those who acknowledge, those who are Jewish, the Sabians, and the Nazarenes Whoever acknowledges God and the Last day and does good works, then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve."

As such, in this context, when the Quran talks about people of the Book it obviously refers to Israelis(Jews) and Nazarenes(not the so-called christians but followers of Jesus). But it does not mean that only Israelis and Nazarenes received book from God and hence the only people of the Book. It is totally untrue and ignorant notion. As God says in the Quran, there are many prophets who are not mentioned in the Quran. It means there are many more peoples who had received God's books though not mentioned in the Quran. Such peoples include Persians(Zoroastrians), Indians(Hindus), Greeks, Romans, Chinese(Taoists) and many more.

Look at the above mentioned verse. Furthermore, Taoists, Hindus, Romans, etc. etc. are/were not monotheistic.
Zoroastians are the only monotheists of your list.

How do you know Hinduism is a polytheistic religion? What is your basis for this conclusion? You are absolutely wrong and kept in the dark. You are only commenting on Hinduism even without knowing the basisc of Hinduism. Hinduism is a revealed monotheistic religion just like Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Taoism, Islam but has been corrupted just like other monotheistic religions.

From wiki Hinduism is a diverse system of thought with beliefs spanning monotheism, polytheism, panentheism, pantheism, monism, and atheism, and its concept of God is complex and depends on each particular tradition and philosophy. It is sometimes referred to as henotheistic (i.e., involving devotion to a single god while accepting the existence of others), but any such term is an overgeneralization.

Siddhartha(Gautama Buddha) resembles Yeshua(Jesus) in many ways. Just like Jesus, Buddha was NOT given a law making book by God to institute a new religion but they received a book from God containing moral teachings, prophecies, warnings,etc. Just as Jesus was subject to follow Mosaic law(Torah), Buddha was subject to follow Vedic law(Vedas).

Jesus was given the Injeel. Check the Quran please.

546 Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Injeel, in it is guidance and light, and to authenticate what is present with him of the Torah, and a guidance and lesson for the righteous.

Peace

Alen

That a specified worship five times a day is a God?s commandment given in all revealed religions is confirmed by the fact that a revealed religion known as Mazdayasni religion or commonly called Zoroastrianism which is the ancient religion of Iran enjoins a specified worship five times a day whose timing is based on the movement of Sun as in the case of Islam.
Zoroastrians call this specified worship ?Gah worship/prayer?. The term ?Gah? means ?period of time? or ?place?. So Gah worship means ?timed worship?. It is apparently a name given in latter days to Yasna which has to be performed five times daily in its respective times. In reality, Gah worship is nothing but Yasna in Avestan language which means Fire Oblation or Worship through fire/Fire based worship or Sacrifice. Its Sanskrit equivalent is Yajna as practiced in other revealed religion ?Hinduism?. This worship is called ?Incense Burning? or ?Burnt Offering? in Hebrew scriptures when it is named Salat in the Quran.
The striking similarity between Islam and Zoroastrianism in the timing of five daily worship is given below
Time/Islam/Zoroasrianism
Dawn/Fajr/Havaan
Noon/Zuhar/Rapithwan
Afternoon/Asr/Uziren
Evening/Maghrib/Aiwisuthrem
Night/Isha/Ushaen
Call for Five daily worship
Just like the believers are called for Salat in a Masjid by a Muezzin(caller) in Islam five times a day, the Zoroastrian believers are summoned by the ringing of a bell in the Atash Behram / Agiary / Fire Temple to perform Yasna(Gah worship) five times a day.
Ablution
Muslims are required to do ritual purification like washing face and limbs before commencing Salat. Likewise, Zoroastrians are required to do wash their face and limbs before commencing Yasna(Gah worship).
Head Cover
In the same way as Muslims cover their heads traditionally when performing Salat, Zoroastrians are required to cover their heads when performing Yasna(Gah worship).
Facing the Direction
The direction at which Muslims are to perform Salat is called the Qiblah in the Quran. In the Atashbehram/Agiary the room where the Atash Padshah(Sacred Fire) is enthroned is called the Keblaah in Zoroastrianism.
Reading/Reciting portions from Scripture
As Muslims are required to read/recite portions from the Quran in the original language of its revelation ie Arabic while performing Salat, Zoroastrians are required to read/recite portions from the Avesta(Gathas) in the original language of its revelation ie Avesta when performing Yasna(Gah worship).
Sacred Fire and Incense
The method of performing Yasna(Gah worship) done by Zoroastrians is as follows
1.Stand before the sacred fire enthroned on the fire altar in an Agiary /Fire Temple or sit or stand before the sacred fire ignited at the home fire altar;
2. Read/recite portions from the scripture;
3.Burn the powdered herbals/incense on the sacred fire ie oblation into sacred fire.
It is where the so-called Muslims shunned the true Salat by substituting the sacred fire and offering incense as oblation into sacred fire with the acts of bowing and prostrating. This is how the sectarian Muslims lost the core part of Salat ie oblation into sacred fire and retained Salat only in the name.

Peace,
Respectfully.

What exactly are you trying to say here?
That Islam and zoroastrianism have similarities?
That Islam comes from zorothing?

Where in The Quran does it say that we, Muslims, pray 5 times a day?
Where in The Quran are we told to cover our heads during prayer or outside the prayer?
We Muslims do not stand before the fire.
We Muslims do not burn incense.

Peace.

vivek

Peace Progressive 1993,

Your reply shows how you are grossly misguided by following Rashad's Quran translation which is a gross distortion of the Quranic messages and also by your obsession with bashing other revealed religions as a typical tradtional muslim does, though claiming to be a free mind muslim, by simply branding these religions as polytheistic or atheistic because you want superiority of your religion ie corrupt version of Islam as the only best and true religion over all other religions. You are blinded and prevented from seeing the truth by this attitude of yours.

I don't see any sense in discussing religious truths with a person like you!!!

Yours truly,

K.Vivekanandan

vivek

Peace Allen,

Peace,
Respectfully.

What exactly are you trying to say here?

I'm saying that Zoroastrianism is a revealed religion just like Islam.

That Islam and zoroastrianism have similarities?

Yes, both Zoroastrianism and Islam have so many points of similarities. Please look at some of the similarities in the articles of faith between Zoroastrianism and Islam that I have presented in my reply to Progressive 1993.

That Islam comes from zorothing?

As per the recorded history, Zoroastrianism was revealed through prophet Zarathushtra(Zoroaster) at leat 1000 years before prophet Muhammad. But it does NOT mean the Quranic teachings were borrowed from Zoroastrianism as some people propagate. The similarities between Zoroastrianism and Islam confirm each other and their same origin ie God Almighty.

Where in The Quran does it say that we, Muslims, pray 5 times a day?

The present Quran is only a portion of the original Quran text and a considerable portion of the original Quran text had been lost. This is the reason why a clear verse(s) giving commadment for 5 timed Salawat is/are not found in the present Quran. But the clear commadment for 5 Salawat must have been clearly given in the original Quran. No doubt about it.

Where in The Quran are we told to cover our heads during prayer or outside the prayer?

There is a clear commandment in the Torah for the priests to cover their heads while attending their priestly duties in the temple. The very fact that both Zoroastrians and Israelis(Jews) are using head covers(caps/turbans) while worshipping and also there is God's commandment in the Torah for covering the head confirms us that the original Quran must have contained this commadment too since Islam is a revealed religion and God's tradition/system(Sunnah) is the same.

We Muslims do not stand before the fire.
We Muslims do not burn incense.

Are you sure you are the Muslims? How do you know it? You are only assuming that your group of people(submitters/19ers/free minds/tradional muslims) are the muslims as defined in the Quran. It is just your assumption. That is all. God only knows who are Muslims.

A true Muslim must perform fire oblation(Salat/Yajna/Yasna) as an obilgatory and timed worship of God. Salat is nothing but fire oblation.

Peace.

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

Peace Progressive 1993,

Your reply shows how you are grossly misguided by following Rashad's Quran translation which is a gross distortion of the Quranic messages and also by your obsession with bashing other revealed religions as a typical tradtional muslim does, though claiming to be a free mind muslim, by simply branding these religions as polytheistic or atheistic because you want superiority of your religion ie corrupt version of Islam as the only best and true religion over all other religions. You are blinded and prevented from seeing the truth by this attitude of yours.

I don't see any sense in discussing religious truths with a person like you!!!

Yours truly,

K.Vivekanandan

laugh

RK's version of the Quran is not distorted - it is a good translation
Show me one instance where I've used RK's version in this thread

Answer 3 easy questions

Is Buddhism monotheistic?
Is Hinduism monotheistic?
Is burning incense the prescribed form of salaat in the Quran?

Answer, dont run away.

2563 The servants of the Gracious who walk on the earth in humility and if the ignorant speak to them, they say, "Peace."

Peace

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

Head Cover

In the same way as Muslims cover their heads traditionally when performing Salat, Zoroastrians are required to cover their heads when performing Yasna(Gah worship).

Look at your hypocrisy. You accuse me of being a traditional Muslim, which I am definetly not, yet you say that we are to cover our heads. Where is this ordained in the Quran.

Also is it true that you believe the Quran is not complete?

vivek

Peace Progressive1993,

laugh

RK's version of the Quran is not distorted - it is a good translation
Show me one instance where I've used RK's version in this thread
It is a well known fact that Rashad Khalifa did NOT translate the Quran into English but only gave his commentary in the name of a translation. Even the staunch supporters of code 19 like Edip have acknoldged many a mistake in the so-called Quran translation of Rashad. But I'm not surprised when blind followers of Rashad like YOU claim infallibility of Rashad and his so-called translation.
The very translation of Salat as 'contact prayer' by Rashad which is a mistake has been used by you!!!

Answer 3 easy questions

Is Buddhism monotheistic?
Is Hinduism monotheistic?
Is burning incense the prescribed form of salaat in the Quran?
I advise you to refer my posts on this thread which clearly say that Buddhism is NOT a God-instituted religion like Christianity. When such is the case, where is the question of whether man-made Buddhism is a montheistic one or not?
Yes, Hinduism is a monotheistic religion revealed by God. The Vedas revealed by God speak of oneness of God, advocate worship of God alone and warn against worshipping other than God. Just like Islam and other revealed religions, Hiduism too has been corrupted by replacing the Vedas with man-made traditions and books like Purans, Mahabharat, Ramayan,etc as the authority for the religion just as Hadiths and Sunnah were used to replace the Quran to corrupt Islam.
The present Quran is NOT the original Quran. It is only a portion of the original Quran and was edited by scribes to suit their agenda. As a result, the present Quran is INCOMPLETE. So there is no detail on Salat, Zakat,etc in the present Quran.

Answer, dont run away.

I have answered all your questions. Will you run away now?

2563 The servants of the Gracious who walk on the earth in humility and if the ignorant speak to them, they say, "Peace."

Peace

"Peace"

Yours truly,

K.Vivekanandan

Alen

The present Quran is only a portion of the original Quran text and a considerable portion of the original Quran text had been lost. This is the reason why a clear verse(s) giving commadment for 5 timed Salawat is/are not found in the present Quran. But the clear commadment for 5 Salawat must have been clearly given in the original Quran. No doubt about it.

Peace,
Respectfully.

53 Forbidden to you is that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was sacrificed to other than God, and that which has been strangled, and that which has been beaten to death, and that which has fallen from a height, and that which has been gored, and that which the wild animals have eaten from except what you managed to rescue, and what has been slaughtered on alters, and what you divide by the arrows of chance. This is all vile. Today the rejecters have given up from your system, so do not fear them, but fear Me. Today I have perfected your system for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have accepted submission as the system for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.

Have you read this?
Peace.

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

It is a well known fact that Rashad Khalifa did NOT translate the Quran into English but only gave his commentary in the name of a translation. Even the staunch supporters of code 19 like Edip have acknoldged many a mistake in the so-called Quran translation of Rashad. But I'm not surprised when blind followers of Rashad like YOU claim infallibility of Rashad and his so-called translation.

rotfl

I am one of the sensible people who DO NOT CLAIM TAHT HE WAS INFALLIBLE. I personally dont think his translation is perfect. YOU ARE A LIER!

The very translation of Salat as 'contact prayer' by Rashad which is a mistake has been used by you!!!

I did not use RK's translation, you lier! I dont care whether you like salat as "contact prayer" or not,

It is verse clear that Buddhism is not a monotheistic religion. Hinduism might have a small sect that practices monotheism, although I am not even sure about that. The rest (majority) are idolators.

Why do you want to practice things that are found in polytheistic and atheistic religions? Does that say something about yourself? hmm

You are clearly rejecting God's assertions that the Quran is complete. I have heard what people on 19.org say about you. Thank you for your confirmation.

6114 "Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this book sufficiently detailed?" Those to whom We have given the book know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.

6115 The word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.

I have no need in discussin gthis further with you.
It is very clear that we have totally opposing views. I dont think I agree with in anything.

Nevertheless,
Peace

Cushan

Prayer in judaism and Christianity clearly evolved. Originally praying (according to the Bible) was meditation and 'talking' to God. After the end of the sacrificial service the daily sacrifices became uniform prayers. Christianity reflects this in Jesus' (according to the New Testament) telling people to hiding themselves away for personal prayer and not to make a spectacle for the uniform prayer, i.e. The Lord's Prayer. The Quran only commands to keep regular prayers and not to make a spectacle out of it. If the Arabs resemble the Persians or Jews in prayer it's because of borowing, not because Zorostrianism is a revealed religion or because Rabbinical Judaism is God-given.

vivek

Peace Alen,

Peace,
Respectfully.

53 Forbidden to you is that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was sacrificed to other than God, and that which has been strangled, and that which has been beaten to death, and that which has fallen from a height, and that which has been gored, and that which the wild animals have eaten from except what you managed to rescue, and what has been slaughtered on alters, and what you divide by the arrows of chance. This is all vile. Today the rejecters have given up from your system, so do not fear them, but fear Me. Today I have perfected your system for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have accepted submission as the system for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.

Have you read this?
Peace.

It is not that only Islam was perfected by God while other revealed religions were given as inperfect ones. Every revealed religion was given as a perfect religion. The word perfection here means completion of the revealtions by God while instituting a religion. It is only after revealed religions were perfected that such religions were corrupted by operation of satan.

Yours truly,

K.Vivekanandan

Jim19

Shalom All

only who has doubt in their hearts will say that there's 5 daily prayer per day, in Quran there's 3 prayer mentioned by their names ,another thing it's from devil nothing else.

Abd-Allah Mecherbet

Shalom

vivek