2:217 what is disbelief?

hafeez_kazi

peace all.

YAS'ALON -KA cAN ASH- SHAHR AL- H.ARAAM QITAAL FE -HI QUL QITAAL FE -HI KABER WA- S.ADD cAN SABEL 'ALLAAH WA- KUFR BI- -HI WA- AL- MASJID AL- H.ARAAM WA- IKHRAAJ 'AHL -HI MIN -HU AKBAR cINDA 'ALLAAH WA- AL- FITNAH AKBAR MIN AL- QATL WA- LAA YAZAALON YUQAATILON -KUM H.ATTAA YARUDDO -KUM cAN DEN -KUM 'IN ISTAT.AAcO WA- MAN YARTADD MIN -KUM cAN DEN -HI FA- YAMOT WA- HUWA KAAFIR FA- 'OLAA'IKA H.ABIT.AT AcMAAL -HUM FE AD- DUNYAA WA- AL- 'AAKHIRAH WA- 'OLAA'IKA AS.H.AAB AN- NAAR HUM FE -HAA KHAALIDON

Yusuf Ali's Translation
They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah to deny Him to PREVENT ACCESS TO THE SACRED MOSQUE and drive out its members. Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you turn back from their faith and die in unbelief their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be Companions of the Fire and will abide therein.

Muhsin Khan
They ask you concerning fighting in the Sacred Months (i.e. 1st, 7th, 11th and 12th months of the Islamic calendar). Say, "Fighting therein is a great (transgression) but a greater (transgression) with Allah is to prevent mankind from following the Way of Allah, to disbelieve in Him, to PREVENT ACCESS TO AL MASJID AL HARAM (at Makkah), and to drive out its inhabitants, and Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And they will never cease fighting you until they turn you back from your religion (Islamic Monotheism) if they can. And whosoever of you turns back from his religion and dies as a disbeliever, then his deeds will be lost in this life and in the Hereafter, and they will be the dwellers of the Fire. They will abide therein forever."

Moulana Daryabadi's Translation
They ask thee of the sacred month, of fighting therein. Say thou; fighting therein is grievous; and hindering people from the way of Allah and UNBELIEF IN HIM AND IN THE SANCTITY OF THE SACRED MOSQUE and driving out its dwellers therefrom are more grievous with Allah, and such temptation is far more grievous than that slaughter. And they will not cease fighting you so that they might make you apostatize from your religion, if they can. And whosoever of you apostatizeth from his faith and dieth an Infidel, then these it is whose works shall be of none effect in this world and the Hereafter, and they shall be the fellows of the Fire ; therein they shall be abiders.

Pickthall's Translation
They question thee (O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say Warfare therein is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of Allah, AND TO DISBELIEVE IN HIM AND IN THE INVIOLABLE PLACE OF WORSHIP, and to expel his people thence, is a greater with Allah; for persecution is worse than killing. And they will not cease from fighting against you till they have made you renegades from your religion, if they can. And whoso becometh a renegade and dieth in his disbelief such are they whose works have fallen both in the world and the Hereafter. Such are rightful owners of the Fire they will abide there in.

According to Abdullah Yousuf and Mohsin Khan
IT IS TO PREVENT ACCESS TO MASJID AL HARAM

According to Daryabadi
IT IS DISBELIEVING IN THE SANCTITY OF THE SACRED MOSQUE

According to Pickthall
IT IS DISBELIEVING IN THE MASJID AL HARAM

I find Pickthall translation to be correct

If this is correct then there is nothing to DISBELIEVE in the (OPEN SPACE AROUND KAABA) MASJID AL HARAM

Which translation according to you is correct?

Please post your reply.

Thanks

drfazl

peace all.

According to Abdullah Yousuf and Mohsin Khan
IT IS TO PREVENT ACCESS TO MASJID AL HARAM

According to Daryabadi
IT IS DISBELIEVING IN THE SANCTITY OF THE SACRED MOSQUE

According to Pickthall
IT IS DISBELIEVING IN THE MASJID AL HARAM

I find Pickthall translation to be correct

If this is correct then there is nothing to DISBELIEVE in the (OPEN SPACE AROUND KAABA) MASJID AL HARAM

Which translation according to you is correct?

Please post your reply.

hafeez kazi,

All the three are perfectly correct.

Masjidul haram means OPEN SPACE AROUND KA'ABA. You believe something in it as SACRED, that is the reason you enter it. Either you can DISBELIEVE in its sacredness and choose not to enter an open space' or/and for the same reason PREVENT OTHERS TOO entering into it due to lack of appreciation and thus disbelief IN ITS SANCTITY.

It is up to us now to say what sacredness the open space around KA"ABA has if our own entry into masjidul haram is accepted/rejected by Allah. What is masjidul haram? where is it? and who shall enter it?

hafeez_kazi

Peace Dr. Fazl

We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens; now shall We turn thee to a Qiblah that shall please thee. Turn then thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque; wherever ye are turn your faces in that direction. The people of the book know well that that is the truth from their Lord nor is Allah unmindful of what they do. 2144

Even if you were to bring to the people of the Book all the signs (together) they would not (TABIcO) FOLLOW your Qiblah; nor you are a (TAABIc) FOLLOWER of their Qiblah; nor indeed will they follow each other's Qiblah. If you, after the knowledge hath reached you were to follow their (vain) desires then were thou indeed (clearly) in the wrong. 2145

The Qiblah is MASJID AL HARAM (OPEN PLACE.)

FOLLOW THE OPEN PLACE (MASJID AL HARAM)

What do we mean by FOLLOW the QIBLAH (MASJID AL HARAM) OPEN PLACE, given the meaning of FOLLOW as follows?

To go after someone 2. To come after something 3. To go in the same direction as a road, path, or river 4. To pay attention to something and take an interest in it as it develops 5. To understand something clearly 6. To accept someone's instructions, advice, or example, and act accordingly

There are two commands. 1. To face the open space wherever we are? 2. Follow the open space

How can we face an open space?

How can we follow a lifeless thing, an open place?

How can a lifeless thing, an open place, guide us?

Why Muslims have ignored the "FOLLOW" facts?

Thanks

drfazl

Peace Dr. Fazl
FOLLOW THE QIBLA, OPEN PLACE (MASJID AL HARAM)
What do we mean by FOLLOW the QIBLAH (MASJID AL HARAM) OPEN PLACE, given the meaning of FOLLOW as follows?

To go after someone 2. To come after something 3. To go in the same direction as a road, path, or river 4. To pay attention to something and take an interest in it as it develops 5. To understand something clearly 6. To accept someone's instructions, advice, or example, and act accordingly

There are two commands. 1. To face the open space wherever we are? 2. Follow the open space

How can we face an open space?
How can we follow a lifeless thing, an open place?
How can a lifeless thing, an open place, guide us?
Why Muslims have ignored the "FOLLOW" facts?

Thanks

Qibla means the direction. We have our direction towards our inner wishes. Similarly each has his own direction and he opts for it. We know we have no means to accomplish all our wishes, that Allah keeps creating in our hearts and thus we are left in the OPEN. We have no Hikmath or Ilm unless Allah grants it. If our option is to receive from Allah the Hikmath and knowledge to conduct ourselves in the straight path to receive as "rewards" i.e., our "wishes made come true" as great gifts of Allah, then follow Him. You do not see Him in the OPENNESS before you. Keep your heart purified from the 'shirky' worldly kowledge which is only 'seeing is believing' either physically or mentally.

So look not upwards to the heavens, but turn towards the Qibla where your wish is i.e., towards the Wishes Allah keeps creating in your hearts. At this point there is a vacuum of knowledge to get things done. 'Bring not' into it your worldly knowledge which is 'filthy shirk'; seek Allah's guidance, ILM (Alif Laam Meem ) the KNOWLEDGE, if you believe with Him alone is the Way.

Wisdom "Believing in" what Allah creates as your wishes in your hearts
Ilm "The Way" that Allah has in store for you towards gaining your wishes in the most peaceful way

Pray for HIKMATH and ILM which means BELIVING in THE WAY

hlatif

Salam brothers,

Qibla means DIRECTION. Therefore THE QIBLA is not ALMASJID ALHARAM. It is the DIRECTION to ALMASJID ALHARAM.

As for FOLLOW, The AYAH is talking about following the QIBLA = DIRECTION

Salam

Hussein

hafeez_kazi

Peace all.

WA- AWH.AYNAA 'ILAA MOSAA WA- 'AKHE -HI 'AN TABAWWA'AA LI- QAWM -KUMAA BI- MIS.R BUYOT(AN) WA- IJcALO BUYOT -KUM QIBLAH WA- AQEMO AS.- S.ALAAH WA- BASHSHIR AL- MU'MINEN 1087

Yusuf Ali's Translation
We inspired Moses and his brother with this message "Provide dwellings for your People in Egypt make your dwellings INTO PLACES OF WORSHIP and establish regular prayers and give Glad Tidings to those who believe!"

Muhsin Khan
And We inspired Musa (Moses) and his brother (saying) "Take dwellings for your people in Egypt, and make your dwellings AS PLACES FOR YOUR WORSHIP, and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give glad tidings to the believers."

Moulana Daryabadi's Translation
And We Revealed unto Musa and his brother inhabit houses for your people in Misr, and make your HOUSES A PLACE OF WORSHIP, and establish prayer, and give glad tidings to the believers.

Pickthall's Translation
And We inspired Moses and his brother, (saying) Appoint houses for your people in Egypt and make YOUR HOUSES ORATORIES, and establish worship. And give good news to the believers.

QIBLAH =
Make your Houses INTO / AS / A PLACE OF WORSHIP / ORATORIES?
(THE FOUR TRANSLATORS)

MAKE YOUR HOUSES, (your / a place of) DIRECTION?
(Hussein)

SA- YAQOL AS- SUFAHAA' MIN AN- NAAS MAA WALLAA -HUM cAN QIBLAH -HIM 'ALLATE KAANO cALAY -HAA QUL LI- 'ALLAAH AL- MASHRIQ WA- AL- MAGHRIB YAHDE MAN YASHAA' 'ILAA S.IRAAT. MUSTAQEM 2142

Yusuf Ali's Translation
The fools among the people will say "What hath turned them from the QIBLAH to which they were used?" Say To Allah belong both East and West; He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight.

Muhsin Khan
The fools (pagans, hypocrites, and Jews) among the people will say, "What has turned them (Muslims) from their QIBLAH to which they were used to face in prayer." Say, (O Muhammad SAW) "To Allah belong both, east and the west. He guides whom He wills to a Straight Way."

Moulana Daryabadi's Translation
Anon will the foolish among mankind say what hath turned them away from their QIBLAH whereon they had been? Say thou unto Allah belongeth the east and the west he guideth whomsoever He listeth unto a straight path.

Pickthall's Translation
The foolish of the people will say What hath turned them from the QIBLAH, which they formerly observed? Say Unto Allah belong the East and the West. He guideth whom He will unto a straight path.

QIBLAH 2142 /143 / 144 / 145 = QIBLAH? (SURPRISING)

QIBLAH 1087 = PLACE OF WORSHIP / ORATORIES? (CONFUSING)

THE CORRUPTION

There is no SALAT (prayer) in any QIBLAH verse.

The fill in the (MADE) blank, was filled (PRAYER) by the scholars?

DOES THE QURAN SAY FACE MASJID AL HARAM WHILE PRAYING?

It's a simple command TURN YOUR FACES towards / in the direction of the OPEN SPACE (around the cubic structure) WHERESOEVER YOU ARE?

It means 24 hours a day, standing, sitting, walking, running, sleeping, playing, working, swimming, talking, and driving.

What is the benefit / gain, facing towards / in the direction of the OPEN SPACE, while engaged in the above activities?

Can anyone explain the logic of facing towards / in the direction of the OPEN SPACE WHERESOEVER WE ARE?

WHAT IS THE TRUE / REAL MESSAGE OF THE QIBLAH VERSES?

Thanks

hlatif

Thanks Brother Hafeez for the this great point,

According to my understanding of the root
QBL in Qamus Muheet, it has three main meanings that are somewhat related

To accept, to come first, the front of the body rather than the back

Therefore QIBLA means DIRECTION (the place that your front faces). It also can mean DIRECTION of ACCEPTANCE.

So in 10.87 It says make the house a DIRECTION/DIRECTION of ACCEPTANCE. This may mean open your houses to whoever wants to make a good deed for the sake of GOD. Prayer is one of them.

As for 2144 and 2145 if you take it as the DIRECTION of ACCEPTANCE fits ok.

My humble understanding will be that whenever you want to perform something and want it to be accepted by GOD then this is the suggested direction. Prayer is one of them, but other good deeds -as you mentioned- could apply. You don't have to face this direction for your worldly chores though. It is also not a mandatory order either as AYAH 2115 may suggest.

The Qur'an also points a very important point that we should not forget. That is the main thing in GOD's view is the IMAN

Laysa albirra an tuwalloo wujoohakum qibalaalmashriqi waalmaghribi walakinna albirra man amanabiAllahi waalyawmi al-akhiri waalmala-ikatiwaalkitabi waalnnabiyyeena waataalmala AAala hubbihi thawee alqurbawaalyatama waalmasakeena waibnaalssabeeli waalssa-ileena wafee alrriqabiwaaqama alssalata waataalzzakata waalmoofoona biAAahdihim ithaAAahadoo waalssabireena fee alba/sa-iwaalddarra-i waheena alba/si ola-ikaallatheena sadaqoo waola-ika humualmuttaqoona
It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing.

Salam brothers again

Hussein

hafeez_kazi

Peace hlatif

So in 10.87 It says make the house a DIRECTION/DIRECTION of ACCEPTANCE. This may mean open your houses to whoever wants to make a good deed for the sake of GOD. Prayer is one of them.
(I do not want to comment on this interpretation)

Abdullah Yousuf Ali's Commentary on 1087

This instruction, WE MAY SUPPOSE, was given when the sorcerers were brought to confusion, and some of the Egyptians believed. Moses for a little while to remain in Egypt, so that his Message should have time to work, before the Israelites were led out of Egypt. THEY WERE TO MAKE THEIR HOUSES INTO PLACE OF PRAYER (QIBLAH), as Pharaoh would NOT probably ALLOW them to SET UP PUBLIC PLACES OF PRAYER.

Read the interpretations of all the translators, you will find each of them contradicting the other. WHY?

It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east OR West; but it is righteousness- to BELIEVE in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; TO SPEND of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; TO BE steadfast in prayer, and PRACTICE regular charity; TO FULFILL the contracts which YOU HAVE MADE; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing. 2177

Traditional translations are miles away from perfection.

It is not righteousness that you turn your faces to the East (WA) AND the West; but righteous is he who (AAMANA) BELIEVED in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the Prophets; and (AATAA) GAVE his wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and (AQAAMA) ESTABLISHED the PRAYERS and (AATAA) GAVE the ZAKAAT, and (MOFON) HONORED his covenant when he covenanted, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the God fearing. 2177

He who BELIEVED in Allah, the Last day, the angels, the scriptures, and the Prophets

He who GAVE away his wealth to the poor etc. (what remains with him so that he can give ZAKAAT and to WHOM?) (Is there any verse, which says GIVE ZAKAT to THE POOR etc.)

He who GAVE Zakaat? How much? (It is an on going process, continues till death)

He who OFFERED his PRAYERS? How many times / days / weeks / years (this is on going process, continues till death)

Has Allah explained the minimum requirements of GIVING ZAKAAT and OFFERING PRAYERS, to make an individual eligible for the post of RIGHTEOUS and GOD FEARING?

What you understood when Allah said " he who GAVE away his wealth to the poor, he who GAVE zakaat, he who OFFERED prayers, IS RIGHTEOUS AND GOD FEARING?

Surely, the TERRORISTS and the Afghan OPIUM producers, who give their wealth to the poor, who give zakaat, who pray more than five times (daily five + chaasht and Ishraq) are RIGHTEOUS and GOD FEARING? Think about them in the light of the verse 2177

'INNA-MAA YAcMUR MASAAJID 'ALLAAH MAN 'AAMANA BI- 'ALLAAH WA- AL- YAWM AL- 'AAKHIR WA- AQAAMA AS.- S.ALAAH WA- 'AATAA AZ- ZAKAAH WA- LAM YAKHSHA 'ILLAA 'ALLAAH FA- cASAA 'OLAA'IKA 'AN YAKONO MIN AL- MUHTADEN 918

The mosques of Allah shall be maintained by such as (AAMANA) BELIEVED in Allah and the Last Day (AQAAMA) ESTABLISHED the PRAYERS and (AATAA) GAVE the ZAKAAT and fear none (at all) except Allah. It is they who are expected to be on true guidance. 918

WHY ALLAH HAS NOT ORDERED THE BELIEVERS TO MAINTAIN THE MOSQUE?

WHY ALLAH HAS SET, SUCH HIGH STANDARD OF FAITH, FOR JUST MAINTENANCE OF THE MOSQUE.

WHY ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE BELIEVED, AND ESTABLISHED THE PRAYERS (HOW MANY TIMES / DAYS / WEEKS / YEARS, NOT MENTIONED?)

WHY ONLY THOSE WHO GAVE ZAKAAT, HOW MUCH, NOT MENTIONED)
(What relation has ZAKAAT with the repairing of the Mosque?)

WHY ONLY THOSE WHO FEAR ALLAH ONLY?

WHO ARE THOSE WHO FEAR ALLAH ONLY?

Those who CONVEY / PREACH the Message of Allah and FEAR Him, and FEAR NONE EXCEPT ALLAH. And Sufficient is Allah as a Reckoner. 3339

WA- MIN AN- NAAS WA- AD- DAWAAB WA- AL- ANcAAM MUKHTALIF ALWAAN -HU KA- DHAALIKA 'INNA-MAA YAKHSHAA 'ALLAAH MIN cIBAAD -HI AL- cULAMAA' 'INNA 'ALLAAH cAZEZ GHAFOR 3528

And of men, and beasts, and cattle, likewise of diverse colours. IT IS ONLY THOSE WHO ARE (cULAMAA) LEARNED / SCHOLAR among his slaves THAT FEAR ALLAH. Verily Allah is the Mighty, the Forgiving. 3528

So according to Allah only THOSE WHO PREACH / CONVEY the message of ALLAH and THOSE WHO ARE cULMAA (LEARNED / SCHOLAR) are ELIGIBLE CANDIDATES FOR THE MAINTENANCE OR REPAIRING OF THE MOSQUE.

Thanks