Monotheists
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I thank you progressive, for all your aide. It confirms my thoughts that one need only be a monotheist, a last day judgment believer and do deeds of righteousness for the sake of God alone to be among the winners.
There is a group of buddhists I know who are monotheists. Blending both buddhist philosophy and the ideal of One God Alone. I shall look them up and begin that new path.
Bro Rashidala,
Interesting you brought up the buddhists.. I really found them the 'less sectarian' from among the sectarians..
Unlike Christianism and Sunniism, Buddhism stressed on ACT and THOUGHT and NOT FAITH..
RIGHT ACT and RIGHT THOUGHT will bring you to 'liberation' (NIBBANA)..
The law of "karma" is also stressed out, basically the law of karma is
you'll get what you deserves a.k.a you reap what you sow.
And that's why RIGHT ACT is very important..The 'picture of God' in Buddhism is 'obscure', they picture "God" as "The Universal Force" and not as some "Being In Heaven"..
The same 'theme' is also being applied on eastern religion / philosophy.. (e.g. Taoism etc..)
Thus you can find 'God', 'within yourself' and 'within everything' through contemplation / meditating..Salam / Peace
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Peace Rashidala,
3122 Those who submit completely to GOD, while leading a righteous life, have gotten hold of the strongest bond. To God all matters will return.
If you keep with the teachings of the Quran and submit to God alone it should not be a problem if you join a Buddhist group.
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progressive,
do not paint yourself into a philosophical corner.. lol.
you admitted, if a person believes in God, does deeds of righteousness for his sake and believes in a last day.. then he is among the winners. The Qur'an, as I understand it, backs up this point.
do not try and now say "well, you still need the Qur'an." That negates your admonition of the fact of the bare minimum requirements.
I expect more of you
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Jafar,
thank you for the reply. I had said, I admired a group of local buddhists. Not that I myself was new to Buddhism.
I have studied the buddha-dharma for over twelve years now primarily solitary as God is not the point of buddhist practice. This group to which I refer, use the teaching of Zen in the aspect of refusing to define God (much like orthodox Judaism) the statement is
"This mysterious Mind," says Kwei Fung (Kei-ho), "is higher than the highest, deeper than the deepest, limitless in all directions. There is no centre in it. No distinction of east and west, and above and below. Is it empty? Yes, but not empty like space. Has it a form? Yes, but has no form dependent on another for its existence. Is it intelligent? Yes, but not intelligent like your mind. Is it non-intelligent? Yes, but not non-intelligent like trees and stone. Is it conscious? Yes, but not conscious like you when waking. Is it bright? Yes, but not bright like the sun or the moon."
This I can get behind and shall resume my practice of the dharma with the religious undertone of God alone.
Buddha himself never taught on God.. he maintained what they called 'noble silence.' Most teachers I have had consider Buddhism a philosophy and not a religion as it seems the Buddha himself intended it to be. So, I have always believed there is the philosophy of the buddha-dharma and one can meld their own religious practice in tantum with it.
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progressive,
do not paint yourself into a philosophical corner.. lol.
you admitted, if a person believes in God, does deeds of righteousness for his sake and believes in a last day.. then he is among the winners. The Qur'an, as I understand it, backs up this point.
do not try and now say "well, you still need the Qur'an." That negates your admonition of the fact of the bare minimum requirements.
I expect more of you )
laugh
4137 Those who acknowledge, then reject, then acknowledge, then reject, then they increase in rejection; God was neither to forgive them nor to guide them to the path.
4138 Give news to the hypocrites that they will have a painful retribution.
4140 It has been sent down to you in the book, that when you hear God's signs being rejected and ridiculed in, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different subject; if not, then you are like them. God will gather the hypocrites and the ingrates in hell all together.
4143 They are swaying in-between, belonging neither to this group nor to that group. Whomever God will misguide, you will not find for him a way.
386 How would God guide a people who have rejected after acknowledging and they witnessed that the messenger was true, and the clear evidences had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people.
Therefore, I wouldnt take it too lightly, rashidala, nothing against you. If you want to acknowledge the Quran and then reject, then it's your decision, however, this is not very wise. Of course the minimum things are included in 262, but why would you want to turn aways from Islam. What makes you so curious to reject the Quran or not to follow it at all?
hmmAs I have said before, if you stick to the teachings of the Quran, there should be no problem at all. However, we must remember of course
2256 There is no compulsion in the system; the proper way has been made clear from the wrong way. Whoever rejects the transgressors, and acknowledges God, has grasped the firm branch that will never break. God is Hearer, Knower.
I guess being a monotheist is enough, however, rejecting the Quran/stopping to follow it is not wise.
So you joining the monotheist Buddhist group shoul dbe fine, IF you dont reject/stop to follow the teachings of the Quran/dont reject the Quran.
Hope my point is clearer now.
Peace
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laugh
4137 Those who acknowledge, then reject, then acknowledge, then reject, then they increase in rejection; God was neither to forgive them nor to guide them to the path.
4138 Give news to the hypocrites that they will have a painful retribution.
4140 It has been sent down to you in the book, that when you hear God's signs being rejected and ridiculed in, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different subject; if not, then you are like them. God will gather the hypocrites and the ingrates in hell all together.
4143 They are swaying in-between, belonging neither to this group nor to that group. Whomever God will misguide, you will not find for him a way.
386 How would God guide a people who have rejected after acknowledging and they witnessed that the messenger was true, and the clear evidences had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people.
Therefore, I wouldnt take it too lightly, rashidala, nothing against you. If you want to acknowledge the Quran and then reject, then it's your decision, however, this is not very wise. Of course the minimum things are included in 262, but why would you want to turn aways from Islam. What makes you so curious to reject the Quran or not to follow it at all?
hmmAs I have said before, if you stick to the teachings of the Quran, there should be no problem at all. However, we must remember of course
2256 There is no compulsion in the system; the proper way has been made clear from the wrong way. Whoever rejects the transgressors, and acknowledges God, has grasped the firm branch that will never break. God is Hearer, Knower.
I guess being a monotheist is enough, however, rejecting the Quran/stopping to follow it is not wise.
So you joining the monotheist Buddhist group shoul dbe fine, IF you dont reject/stop to follow the teachings of the Quran/dont reject the Quran.
Hope my point is clearer now.
Peace
yes
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so the free minds are not so free.. lol.
to continue the dialogue.. I asked you in reference to Qur'anic teaching.
Rev. John seems an alright fellow, and he is a Christian Monotheist.. is he unwise? It seems clear to me that the minimum requirements are just like Judaism ( God-alone, deeds and last day.)
To say, this means to follow the Qur'an as opposed to just being a monotheist, seems to be flying in the face of this. I am not a polytheist nor have I believed (in monotheism) then rejected, then believed again. I have always been a monotheist.
It seems to me, you are postulating the Qur'an as the sole bearer of truth and this is just as poisonous as the sunnis hugging their ahadith.
To me, it is the height of arrogance to sit and say "I alone know the truth" when there are so many other monotheistic faiths out there I have studied which do the righteous deeds for God alone and believe in a reckoning. I believe they are all going to paradise personally.
If God gave a basic morality, then condemned a people solely for their choice of holy book ( which was in line with the wisdom of the Qur'an in base.) when they were very honorable monotheistic men and women, then he is a tyrant of a God and an exclusionist.
Looking forward to your reply. )
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so the free minds are not so free.. lol.
to continue the dialogue.. I asked you in reference to Qur'anic teaching.
Rev. John seems an alright fellow, and he is a Christian Monotheist.. is he unwise? It seems clear to me that the minimum requirements are just like Judaism ( God-alone, deeds and last day.)
To say, this means to follow the Qur'an as opposed to just being a monotheist, seems to be flying in the face of this. I am not a polytheist nor have I believed (in monotheism) then rejected, then believed again. I have always been a monotheist.
It seems to me, you are postulating the Qur'an as the sole bearer of truth and this is just as poisonous as the sunnis hugging their ahadith.
To me, it is the height of arrogance to sit and say "I alone know the truth" when there are so many other monotheistic faiths out there I have studied which do the righteous deeds for God alone and believe in a reckoning. I believe they are all going to paradise personally.
If God gave a basic morality, then condemned a people solely for their choice of holy book ( which was in line with the wisdom of the Qur'an in base.) when they were very honorable monotheistic men and women, then he is a tyrant of a God and an exclusionist.
Looking forward to your reply.
bravo Well said bravo
I think 2.62 says it all. -
To say, this means to follow the Qur'an as opposed to just being a monotheist, seems to be flying in the face of this. I am not a polytheist nor have I believed (in monotheism) then rejected, then believed again. I have always been a monotheist.
I didnt mean that at all! I was taking it in the context of acknowledging the Quran as a divine scripture.
It seems to me, you are postulating the Qur'an as the sole bearer of truth and this is just as poisonous as the sunnis hugging their ahadith.
laugh
Yes, I regard the Quran as the best of the divine scriptures.
297 Say, "Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel, then know that he has sent it down into your heart by God's permission, authenticating what is already present, and a guide and good news for those who acknowledge."
548 We have sent down to you the book with truth, authenticating what is present of the book and superseding it...
If you have already acknowledged the Quran as a divine scripture there is no reason to reject it. Please read the verses again. And, like I have emphasized before "There is no compulsion in the system/religion".
To me, it is the height of arrogance to sit and say "I alone know the truth" when there are so many other monotheistic faiths out there I have studied which do the righteous deeds for God alone and believe in a reckoning. I believe they are all going to paradise personally.
262 Surely those who acknowledge, and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and those who follow other religions, any one of them who acknowledge God and the Last day, and do reform, they will have their reward with their Lord, with no fear over them, nor will they grieve.
565 If the people of the book only would have acknowledged and been aware, We would have cancelled for them their sins and admitted them to gardens of paradise.
566 If they had upheld the Torah, the Injeel, and what was sent down to them from their Lord, they would have been rewarded from above them and below their feet. From among them is a pious nation, but many of them commit evil.
569 "Those who acknowledge, those who are Jewish, those who are the followers of other religions, and the Nazarenes Whoever acknowledges God and the Last day and does good works, then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve."
If God gave a basic morality, then condemned a people solely for their choice of holy book ( which was in line with the wisdom of the Qur'an in base.) when they were very honorable monotheistic men and women, then he is a tyrant of a God and an exclusionist.
Like the above
565 If the people of the book only would have acknowledged and been aware, We would have cancelled for them their sins and admitted them to gardens of paradise.
566 If they had upheld the Torah, the Injeel, and what was sent down to them from their Lord, they would have been rewarded from above them and below their feet. From among them is a pious nation, but many of them commit evil.
I have emphasized that being a monotheist, serving/worshipping God alone, acknowledging the hereafter and leading a righteous life suffice for attaining salvation.
Also, I want to emphasize something again for you ALL of God's messengers preached the SAME SYSTEM/RELIGION/WAY OF LIFE (DEEN) SUBMISSION TO GOD ALONE/MONOTHEISM.
ANYONE who submits to God alone is a Muslim (Submitter).
4213 He has decreed for you the same system He ordained for Noah, and what We inspired to you, and what We ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus "You shall uphold this system, and do not divide in it." Intolerable for those who have set up partners is what you invite them towards. God chooses to Himself whoever/whomever He wills; He guides to Himself whoever repents.
3122 And whosoever submits himself completely to God, while he is righteous, then he has taken hold of the strongest bond. And to God all matters will return.
I am not saying that it is an absolute must to acknowledge the Quran as a divine scripture, however, if you already do, there shouldnt really be a reason to reject it. The monotheist/God alone Christians and Jews and followers of other religions will of course also attain salvation, granted that they fulfill the requirements of 262 and 3122.
I hope you understand now.
Peace
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Then we are agreed... 262 and 3122. I can hold to that, yet let you use Qur'an and I will just do righteous deeds, worship God and await the last day...while being a Buddhist.
which is what I was saying before you warned me about what I took to mean, possible hellfire, for setting aside Qur'an.. lol.
A few years ago, I remember speaking with a Rabbi about the notion of Noahides (non Jews who believe in basically the commandments and monotheism) will have their share in the world to come. I thought this was nice. He also said, the righteous of all nations have a share in the world to come. Also nice.
Yet, he then said basically it was through the jewish God and the Torah's understanding of righteousness. So, it made me question.. you are saying the righteous person, would have to be praying to HaShem (the name - a respectful term for God in judaism.) and not to just say a monotheistic God their tribe has believed in for years. He was giving me double talk "All righteous people on this earth get to heaven... if you get your understanding from our Torah of what righteousness is."
It seemed you were saying the same thing. "All people can get to heaven if they are monotheists, righteous deeds and believe in the last day.......and read the Qur'an and follow it above any other."
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Then we are agreed... 262 and 3122. I can hold to that, yet let you use Qur'an and I will just do righteous deeds, worship God and await the last day...while being a Buddhist.
which is what I was saying before you warned me about what I took to mean, possible hellfire, for setting aside Qur'an.. lol.
A few years ago, I remember speaking with a Rabbi about the notion of Noahides (non Jews who believe in basically the commandments and monotheism) will have their share in the world to come. I thought this was nice. He also said, the righteous of all nations have a share in the world to come. Also nice.
Yet, he then said basically it was through the jewish God and the Torah's understanding of righteousness. So, it made me question.. you are saying the righteous person, would have to be praying to HaShem (the name - a respectful term for God in judaism.) and not to just say a monotheistic God their tribe has believed in for years. He was giving me double talk "All righteous people on this earth get to heaven... if you get your understanding from our Torah of what righteousness is."
It seemed you were saying the same thing. "All people can get to heaven if they are monotheists, righteous deeds and believe in the last day.......and read the Qur'an and follow it above any other."
Peace,
There is only one God - whether you call him "Allah", "God", "Yahweh", "Dieu", "Gott", "El", "Dios", etc. so I dont get your "God of a certain tribe" thing.
I wish you the best of luck for your future.
Remember There is only one system/religion taught by God's messenger Submission to God alone. Anyone who submits to God alone is a Submitter. So I guess you'll be a Buddhist Muslim/Buddhist Submitter then laugh
Also remember
4913 O people, We created you from a male and female, and We made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Surely, the most honorable among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is Knowledgeable, Ever-aware.
And
2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but piety is one who acknowledges God and the Last day, and the angels, and the book, and the prophets, and he gives money out of love to the near relatives, and the orphans, and the needy and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves, and he observes the Contact prayer, and contributes towards betterment; and those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of good and bad and during persecution. These are the ones who have been truthful, and they are the righteous.
I wish you the best of luck for your future. May God guide you, bless you and may you remain righteous.
Peace peace
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Wallahi lol... I have created a new path... Budhislam (ha ha.. Buddhism/Islam)
Buddhist Muslims.. I like it.
handshake
What branch of Buddhism are the guys following?
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progressive,
It can be a misnomer actually. Like last century they called muslims Mohammadans.
There is respect for the teachings of Buddha, but its more a return to what was taught and not the teacher. As I recall its, a bit tongue in cheek, as Dhammapadans (those on the path of righteousness.)
It uses the Dhammapada as the sole text for instruction on the path and couples this with the religious aspect to one God above all else as the sole source of devotion.
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You don't need any books to be a muslim. Abraham didn't have squat to read. I can see the Quran is an object of worship for some people here.
"without going out of your door, you can know the ways of the world. without peeping through your window, you can see the way of heaven"
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I am young..next year I shall be 30. Yet, I have been a student of religion for a time yet. The longer I live, with God's blessing to do so, the more I see that the religions that are authentic and carry weight deal with the same things. Family, Honor, Respect and Reverence for God above Man and the world.
If any man or woman can keep their virtue, honor and make the world a better place than when they found it.. I see no reason why God would deny them.. or the God they gave service to was not worth serving and can just leave a good name for their children to carry on.
It should not be about avoiding hell or seeking heaven. It should be about how we deal with our fellow man and doing our best to see that the earth is watched over.
There was an old quote in america, now seemingly forgotten, from some ten years before 1900.. "To leave a name of a man who never bullied another, or stood down against the same when a defenseless person was being harassed."
Strength and Honor Brothers and Sisters...
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Peace,
I don't think Buddhism is the best path to follow in light of the Qur'aan (if you believe in it's revelation). The scriptures state that the Jews, the Nazarenes (who've also been interpreted to refer to certain sects of Christianity), and the "SAABIOON" who lead righteous lives, believe in God, and acknowledge the last day; it doesn't say anything about the followers of other, outside religions. It specifically mentions the Abrahamic religions. The word "saabii" implies the changing of a person's religion, and by referring to the "saabioon", it's specifically referring to the converts, those who abandoned their former religions and chose to follow Muhammad...
Salvation is dependent on more than just simply being a monotheist. If this was the case, there'd be no need for the Torah, the Enjeel, or the Qur'aan... According to the Qur'aan, salvation is dependent on adhering to the "millat Ibraheem"/religion of Abraham, which is outlined in all of the revealed scriptures.
Who would forsake the religion of Abraham, except one who fools his own soul? We have chosen him in this world, and in the hereafter he will be among the righteous. (2130)
The "minimum" in submission is NOT being simply a monotheist, since the Qur'aan says
Say, "We believe in God, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters." If they believe as you do, then they are guided; but if they turn away, then they are in opposition. God will spare you their opposition. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient. (2136, 137)
The "minimum" necessity is to serve God alone and follow the guidance given in His scriptures, whether you profess to be a Jew, a Nazarene, or an Islaamic convert. Being a monotheist alone is NOT ENOUGH. Following the guidance is a requirement; those who don't do so are in "opposition" to God.
Peace,
Ahmad