Sex IS for PLEASURE
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What is " Darwinian Reproductive urge" ???
To reproduce.
In the Animal World during the mating season the urge to reproduce supersedes all other consideration. There is a type of vole that lives in North Europe. During the mating season, the male voles starve themselves to death in a 6 day mating spree. After the six day of continous sex the voles die of starvation and exhaustion. The forest floor becomes littered with the bodies of dead male voles. This is the Darwinian Reproductive Urge. Humans have reached a stage that they are no longer driven by this Darwinian Principle.
I don't agree.
I think you have a bad understanding of evolution.
The animals don't strive to reproduce because of a conscient decision "Now, I have to reproduce myself".
The animals are lead by instincts, impulses. When a male strive to have sex with a female, he does not know that the outcome will be offspring.Instinct is the inherent disposition of a living organism toward a particular behavior. Instincts are generally inherited patterns of responses or reactions to certain kinds of stimuli. In humans they are most easily observed in behaviors such as emotions, sexual drive, and other bodily functions, as these are largely biologically determined. Instinct provides a response to external stimuli, which moves an organism to action, unless overriden by intelligence, which is creative and hence far more versatile.
Examples can more frequently be observed in the behavior of animals (most in the less intelligent species), which perform various activities (sometimes complex) that are not based upon prior experience, such as reproduction, and feeding among insects. Other examples include animal fighting, animal courtship behavior, and internal escape functions.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InstinctThere is no drive for reproduction. There is a sexual drive, the outcome of which is reproduction.
And we, as humans, are still driven by this instinct.Wrong, it still work !
Without the attraction for sexual pleasure, we would hardly engage in sexual intercourses.Sexual attraction is still driven by the basics of our biology. But there is a lot more at play when it comes to human sexual attraction.
What ?
But the question was PRIMARY FUNCTION of sex was for REPRODUCTION with pleasure being secondary. My argument is that this is no longer the case. we are in control of our REPRODUCTION. Primary use of SEX is for pleasure now. REPRODUCTION has become secondary and even then that is a matter of choice.
The animals don't know what is the function of sex. They have sex because they are driven by an instinct that lead them to have sex, but they don't know what is the goal in it.
And it is the same for us, as humans.
This is the biological side (the descriptive side) of sex.Now, the ethic side (the normative side)...
Human sexual behavior in most individuals is typically influenced, if not largely determined, by norms from the culture in which the individual lives. Examples of such norms are prohibitions on sexual intercourse before marriage, or against anal intercourse, or other activities, because the religion to which the individual's culture adheres forbids such activities.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sexualityTo state that "sex is for reproduction" is to establish a social norm ; in this norm we can not have sex for pleasure. It has been used by the Christians as a way to discourage sex outside marriage.
Is your stance descriptive, or normative ?
I don't understand...It is becoming more and more normative.
A descriptive is not the same as a normative stance.
A stance cannot be descriptive, and at the same time normative. Otherwise, it is confusing.Descriptive (or constative) statements are falsifiable statements that attempt to describe reality. Normative statements, on the other hand, affirm how things should or ought to be, how to value them, which things are good or bad, which actions are right or wrong.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NormativeA sentence like "the function of sex is reproduction" does not have the same meaning whether is is descriptive or normative.
If is is descriptive, it is a biological fact. If it is normative, it means that we should have sex only for reproduction.
Likewise "the function of sex is pleasure", as a normative stance, means that we should not restrict our sexual intercourse to reproduction. But, as a descriptive stance, it is senseless.The evolutionary goal may not have been conscious.
One century ago, some human tribes did not known the link between sex and children. They did not know that children was the result of a sexual intercourse.We have become conscious of it that is why we control our reproduction. Hence my point we have reached a stage in our development as species where we are no longer tricked by Darwinian Evolutionary mechanics into reproducing.
Yes, we, as humans, have become conscious that the biological function of sex is reproduction.
But we are still submitted to the sexual drive mechanics.You are not realizing how much instincts are driving us, even today... Sexual attraction is one of these instincts.
That may be so and it is but we have control over our reproduction. So primary function of sex as a tool for procreation is no longer is in operation. We are working against Darwininian Natural selection.
The fact we have control over our reproduction does not change the biological function of sex.
The Human Species have evolved to become a exceptional Animal where we are working against evolutionary natural selection.
It should, but there is lot to be done.
Yes off course. Do you now get the idea that we are living in an Anti-Darwinian world? wink
Regards,
To me " Anti-Darwinian world" means nothing.
Anyway, it is 100% wrong that humans are free from the instincts acquired by the process of evolution.Peace & regards
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The animals are lead by instincts, impulses.
Yes reproductive impulse hence Darwinian Reproductive Urge.
Animals are unconsciously are driven by the urge to reproduce. To pass on their Genes to next generation.When a male strive to have sex with a female, he does not know that the outcome will be offspring.
Really? Thats why certain animals build nests in the mating season so that they can lay eggs? or create burrows to raise their youngs? Conscious or unconscious Animals are driven by the urge to make copies of themselves.
There is no drive for reproduction.
Incorrect. All animals are replicators. They reproduce.
Sexual attraction is still driven by the basics of our biology. But there is a lot more at play when it comes to human sexual attraction.
What ?
Animals look for a mate that is fit and healthy for reproduction. We human species don't do that anymore. Some humans find very fat people sexually attractive. Others very thin people. Neither group are ideal for reproduction in terms of biology.
The animals don't know what is the function of sex. They have sex because they are driven by an instinct that lead them to have sex, but they don't know what is the goal in it.
Really so why do the Animals build nests and burrows in the mating season?
Yes, we, as humans, have become conscious that the biological function of sex is reproduction. But we are still submitted to the sexual drive mechanics.
Yes that may be so but we are not reproducing. We have control of our reproduction. Hence primary use of sex is for pleasure.
The fact we have control over our reproduction does not change the biological function of sex.
That was not the question. We are all aware or have become aware the biological function of sex. But we have as a species have become more than our biology. And the question was primary use of sex is for pleasure because we choose not reproduce.
To me " Anti-Darwinian world" means nothing.
It means as I said we control our reproduction. We work against Darwinian Natural Selection mechanism. It is not nothing. It is a reality.
Anyway, it is 100% wrong that humans are free from the instincts acquired by the process of evolution.
Peace & regardsBut you don't realise we are working against Darwinian Natural Selection all the time from contraceptives to IVF.
Regards,
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The animals are lead by instincts, impulses.
Yes reproductive impulse hence Darwinian Reproductive Urge.
Animals are unconsciously are driven by the urge to reproduce. To pass on their Genes to next generation.You are confusing the instinct and the function of the instinct.
Instinct is the inherent disposition of a living organism toward a particular behavior.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InstinctThis behaviour can be courtship, sexual intercourse...
And the function of the behaviour can be reproduction.When a male strive to have sex with a female, he does not know that the outcome will be offspring.
Really? Thats why certain animals build nests in the mating season so that they can lay eggs? or create burrows to raise their youngs? Conscious or unconscious Animals are driven by the urge to make copies of themselves.
Yes. When an animal builds a nest, it is driven buy an instinct to build a nest. Not by conscious thinking.
There is no drive for reproduction.
Incorrect. All animals are replicators. They reproduce.
Reproduction is the biological function of the instinct.
You may know that reproduction is not the only criteria for a gene to replicate itself.
First, it has to survive... So animal may be endowed by a instinct for eating (hunger).
Second, it has to reproduce, hence the sexual drive.
Third, it has to ensure the replicated genes (the offspring) can survive ; hence the instinct to builds a nestSexual attraction is still driven by the basics of our biology. But there is a lot more at play when it comes to human sexual attraction.
What ?
Animals look for a mate that is fit and healthy for reproduction. We human species don't do that anymore. Some humans find very fat people sexually attractive. Others very thin people. Neither group are ideal for reproduction in terms of biology.
It is absolutely wrong.
Though we may not be aware of it, we are driven by instincts that make us choose the mate that will be the best in replicating our genes.
This is why it is far more easy for a rich and powerful man to find a female (or several ones).The human female, on the other hand, runs into a real problem the human mind. Remember that females must apply more criteria to select a male than males apply to a female. It is not the nearest possibility, but the best possibility that she desir es. (Ehrlichman & Eichenstein, 1992) A woman's mind allows her, and indeed forces her to examine possible criteria to a much greater extent than any other animal. She can also project the consequences of choices into the future. What constitutes an alpha male, the best male with which to mate and produce the best possible offspring, depends on far more factors than any other animal on earth. The criteria for her to desire sexually a man can include strength or health or fighting ability, like the lion or the wolf. However, they can also include intelligence, money, power, prestige, position, status, attitudes, political or religious convictions, any number and combination of factors. It's whatever she believes a man should be that will result in 1) the best possible genes for her offspring, and 2) the offspring's best chance for survival and ability to pass on its genes. It is the human mind that allows her to consider the possibilities, the criteria, the future outcome of her actions. She does not go into heat and mate with the closest best bet. She makes plans, examines her choices, makes conscious decisions. Only the human female can make conscious, planned decisions about her sex life.
http//www.wsu.edu8080/~taflinge/socsex.htmlSee also www.igs.net/~rogersk/mono.htm
The animals don't know what is the function of sex. They have sex because they are driven by an instinct that lead them to have sex, but they don't know what is the goal in it.
Really so why do the Animals build nests and burrows in the mating season?
Yes, we, as humans, have become conscious that the biological function of sex is reproduction. But we are still submitted to the sexual drive mechanics.
Yes that may be so but we are not reproducing. We have control of our reproduction. Hence primary use of sex is for pleasure.
So, when you say "primary use of sex is for pleasure", it is only the description of a social phenomena ; can you confirm ?
Indeed, it is better to "use" in place of "function".The fact we have control over our reproduction does not change the biological function of sex.
That was not the question. We are all aware or have become aware the biological function of sex. But we have as a species have become more than our biology. And the question was primary use of sex is for pleasure because we choose not reproduce.
Yes, it is a social fact that primary use of sex has become pleasure.
As a fact, it is true.
But as a norm, it is another question...To me " Anti-Darwinian world" means nothing.
It means as I said we control our reproduction. We work against Darwinian Natural Selection mechanism. It is not nothing. It is a reality.
Anyway, it is 100% wrong that humans are free from the instincts acquired by the process of evolution.
Peace & regardsBut you don't realise we are working against Darwinian Natural Selection all the time from contraceptives to IVF.
Regards,
No, we don't work again the instincts acquired by the process of evolution by using contraception.
- Contraception can be a mean to reduce the number of children, and so improve the fitness of them, by giving them more chances to gain a good social status (quality preferred to quantity)
- Contraception can be a mean, for a women, to refine her selection of the best mate (to one who will provide the best genes)
With medical contraception (through pharmaceuticals, mechanical apparatus, surgical procedures creating temporary sterility, and abortion), the female is able to deftly manipulate her fertility, so that she chooses the occasion of impregnation (if any), and the father of her children, with great precision and with no necessary regard for her cohabitative partner. This is clearly important, though it is simply a quantitative enhancement of an important phylogenetic process.
http//www.mega.nu8080/gender.html -
You may know that reproduction is not the only criteria for a gene to replicate itself. First, it has to survive... So animal may be endowed by a instinct for eating (hunger). Second, it has to reproduce, hence the sexual drive. Third, it has to ensure the replicated genes (the offspring) can survive ; hence the instinct to builds a nest
All this so that gene could replicate wink
Organism are just gene replicators...It is absolutely wrong.
Though we may not be aware of it, we are driven by instincts that make us choose the mate that will be the best in replicating our genes.In the Animal World animals don't breed with the sick and the weak. But we humans do. Our sexual attraction is nothing like animal instinct...
Yes, it is a social fact that primary use of sex has become pleasure. As a fact, it is true.
There you have it. I rest my case wink -)
But as a norm, it is another question...
Yes of course -)
Regards,
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Peace be upon you,
Pleasure is not in THINGS. If we fall into the trap of believing that objects carry "pleasure", then we will spend all our trime trying to gain that object when "pleasure" as an aspect of being.
This is why so many people do the dumbest things for sex (to impress the opposite sex).
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salaam all
I ave no idea what most of you are talking about, but boy am I stillearning
So you are saying to me that the FUNCTION of the APPENDIX was to digest RAW leaves? It was DESIGNED to FUNCTIONso that it digest raw leaves? But since we have evolved the FUNCTION of the APPENDIX has become obsolete?
Wow we used to eat raw leaves and the appendix digested these leaves. What a shame we stopped eatingg these leaves. It would have probably eliminated many famines.
regards -
From http//www.answering-christianity.com/oral_sex.htm
"how ye will" means that the husband can do anything graphical, including oral sex, with his wife's body as long as it causes her no harm. In other words, he can't jerk his way in unto her and say it is his right. Allah Almighty said in the same Noble Verse "and fear God." A husband must fear Allah Almighty when he sleeps with his wife. He must make sure that she enjoys him just like he enjoys her. He can make love using his penis, fingers or tongue; what ever makes both spouses happy. Allah Almighty left the door wide open for the two spouses when He said "how ye will".
rotfl
-M
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The assertion that 'sex is for pleasure' is as elementary as the assertion that water quenches thirst, or that bread satisfies hunger. rotfl O0
bread, water, sex, sleep.
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Fatawa tempt
http//wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_masturbation_HAram_in_ISLAMStupid. laugh
From what I know the hadith they mention regarding "wedding the hand" is not even "sahih", and they're using it....
And I love how they misinterpret the Quranic verse they use, which is clearly talking about sex partners.
As for the "sahih" hadith of Muhammad advising teenagers to fast when they're horny (yes, I said this before too) NOWHERE is it implied that masturbation in this statement, is sinful. How do we know they just didn't prefer to masturbate and desired real sex instead? These are all sunni imams' interpretations. The religion is based on them (idols), not God.
-M
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- Sex is pleasureble simply to guarantee/force us to have sex... which makes sure the human race continues to exist.
- There are other natural ways to experience pleasure for humans, but no other natural ways to procreate.
- So obviously the PRIMARY function of sex is to continue the species. The pleasure is a built in aspect to compel us to have sex (since we like it), and we may as a bonus also use it for pure pleasure. But there are also other means of experiencing pleasure, so pleasure must be secondary (or perhaps share the first position with procreation, but procreation can obviously not be secondary).
- And why the heck would the genital organs be created just to provide us some pleasure... come on!