Is SALAT established for the REMEMBRANCE of Allah?
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Peace
And when he came to it, he was called, "O Moses 2011
Indeed, I am your Lord, so remove your sandals. Indeed, you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa 2012
And I have chosen you, so listen to what is whispered .2013
Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so serve Me and establish the prayer (RITUAL PRAYER) for my remembrance 2014Do we really need to pray ritually to remember Allah? Is Salat established for the remembrance of Allah?
Verily in the creation of the heavens and the earth and in the alternation of the night and the day are signs Unto the men of understanding. Who remember Allah while standing or sitting or on their sides and give thought to the creation of the heavens and the earth, , "Our Lord, You did not create this aimlessly; exalted are You ; then protect us from the punishment of the Fire. (Aali Imraan 191)
When we can remember Allah while standing or sitting or lying on sides then why we need to offer the robotic ritual Salat?
And when you have completed the prayer, remember Allah standing, sitting, or on your sides. But when you become secure, establish prayer. Indeed, prayer has been decreed upon the believers a decree of specified times. (An-Nisaa 103)
But when the prayer is ended, then disperse abroad in the land and seek of Allah's grace, and remember Allah much, that you may be successful. (Al-Jumu'a 10)
If Salat is for the remembrance of Allah then what is the remembrance of Allah by standing, sitting, or lying on the sides after the Salat? What the hell the Muslims are doing during the SALAT? Joking! If the remembrance of Allah is after the SALAT then what is in the Ritual SALAT. The ritual Salat is nothing but a mockery of the verses of Allah.
If SALAT is a Ritual prayer then how Moses understood the SALAT in his first communication with Allah? Moses was nurtured by Pharaoh who was an atheist, then in this environment how Moses could have known what SALAT is? Allah did not yet talk with Moses leave alone teaching SALAT. It is just like giving a person a plane and commanding him to fly it without first teaching him how to fly a plane. No Torah was revealed and yet Moses was commanded to establish the Ritual SALAT? It means that to establish the ritual prayer there is no need of Torah, Bible or Quran or any other revealed Book. The ritual Salat of the Muslim is heavily dependent on Quran and fake hadith while the Salat of Moses and Zachariah and all other prophets are unrelated to revealed Books. It is beyond doubt that the ritual Salat is fabricated by the conspirators of the Quran. Allah has described how to remember Him but forgot to describe the method and details of the ritual Salatin the Quran?
If Salat is established for the remembrance of Allah then what is the remembrance of Allah in the following verses?
men whom neither commerce nor sale distracts from the remembrance of Allah and (from) establishing the prayer and giving of zakah. They fear a Day in which the hearts and eyes will turn about 2437
Distraction from the REMEMBRANCE of Allah as well as from ESTABLISHING the Salat (for the remembrance of Allah). HOW?
Satan only wants to cause between you animosity and hatred through intoxicants and gambling and to avert you from the remembrance of Allah and (from) prayer. So will you not desist? 591
Satan averts from the REMEMBRANCE of Allah as well as from the Salat (for the remembrance of Allah). HOW?
Did you notice the difference between the two verses 2437 and 591?
Commerce and sale do not distract men from ESTABLISHING the salat whereas the SATAN averts from salat only. Satan is not averting from ESTABLISHING the salat but only salat whereas commerce and sales do not distract men from salat but from ESTABLISHING the salat. The difference is ESTABLISHING, WHY?
For remembering Allah there is no need of ritual Salat and in ritual Salat there is no remembrance of Allah except recitation without understanding
Remembrance of Allah is by no means a Ritual Prayer like a robotic machine without understanding,
O you who have believed, remember Allah with much remembrance (Al-Ahzaab 41)
And remember thou the name of thy Lord in the morning and in the evening. (Al-Insaan 25)
And remember your Lord within yourself in humility and in fear without being apparent in speech - in the mornings and the evenings. And do not be among the heedless. (Al-A'raaf 205)
Remember Me wherefore, and I shall remember you and unto Me give thanks, and be not ingrate unto Me. (Al-Baqara 152)
And those who, when they commit an immorality or wrong themselves , remember Allah and seek forgiveness for their sins - and who can forgive sins except Allah? - and do not persist in what they have done while they know. (Aali Imraan 135)
Do you remember Allah in the way described above in your ritual Salat? Except reciting Surah Fateha and other small Surahs and glorifying Allah three times in ruku and sujud and reciting the tahiyyat, sending salat unto the prophet and finishing the salat with two salams (even Allah does not know to whom the believers are sending their salam, the mercy of Allah and His blessings, because the believers themselves do not know for whom they are doing this). Is this called remembrance of Allah?
What is My Remembrance or My Message?
Those whose eyes had been within a cover from My Message, and they were not able to hear.18101
Go, you and your brother, with My signs and do not be negligent in My Message. 2042
Has the message been revealed to him out of us?" Rather, they are in doubt about My Message. Rather, they have not yet tasted My punishment 388
And whoever turns away from My Message - indeed, he will have a depressed life, and We will gather him on the Day of Resurrection blind." (20 124)
Indeed, it is We who sent down the Message and indeed, We will be its guardian 159
And they say, "O you upon whom the Message has been sent down, indeed you are mad. (15 6)
You can only warn one who follows the Message and fears the Most Merciful unseen. So give him good tidings of forgiveness and noble reward. (36 11)
Then should We turn the Message away, disregarding you, because you are a transgressing people? (43 5)also means my message
So Moses was commanded to establish the COMMUNION (intimate communication) for His message
Go, you and your brother, with My signs and do not be negligent in My Message. 2042
Go, both of you, to Pharaoh. Indeed, he has transgressed And speak to him with gentle speech that perhaps he may be reminded or fear .2043/44
So go to him and say, 'Indeed, we are messengers of your Lord, so send with us the Children of Israel and do not torment them. We have come to you with a sign from your Lord. And peace will be upon he who follows the guidance Indeed, it has been revealed to us that the punishment will be upon whoever denies and turns away 2047/48
Moses was commanded to deliver the initial messages of Allah to Pharaoh and the children of Israel. How will Moses deliver the message to Pharaoh and the children of Israel without COMMUNION (intimate communication)?
And he said unto him of the twain who he knew would be released Mention me in the presence of thy lord. But Satan caused him to forget to mention it to his lord, so he (Joseph) stayed in prison for some years.1242
Because of the negligence in delivering the message to his lord, Joseph had to languish in the prison for some years. The delivery of the message to Pharaoh was more important and was assigned by Allah to Moses and warned for negligence. Moreover Moses and Aaron were committed to remember Allah.
Go, you and your brother, with My signs and do not be negligent in My Message. 2042
(Moses and Aaron) That we may serve You much and remember You much 2033/34
Moses and Aaron never said that we will offer 5 times salat to REMEMBER you (Allah)
He said O Moses! I have preferred thee above mankind by My messages and by My speaking (unto thee). So hold (Tablet) that which I have given thee, and be among the THANKFUL. 7144
And We wrote for him on the tablet instruction and explanation for all things, , "Take them with determination and order your people to take the best of it. I will show you the home of the defiantly disobedient7145
And We inspired to Moses and his brother, "Settle your people in the (alleged) Egypt in houses and make your houses qiblah (facing each other) and establish the the COMMUNION (intimate communication with your people) and give good tidings to the believers." (10 87)
http//snag.gy/X0vMq.jpg
SALAT = COMMUNION (one of the multiple meanings of salat)
Thanks
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You have taken one step forward, brother, but not reached all the way.
Be well
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Peace
Thanks brother for your encouraging words. The primary objective of my research is to uncover the truth which has been hidden by the sectarians under the heap of lies. As I already pointed out that the present ritual salat survived only because of the distorted translation and had it been corrected then salat would have been exposed long before.
Some ten days back I requested the free minders to investigate the distorted translation of the verse 1929/30/31 (AUSANI and BI S SALAT) but not a single free minder responded to it. This shows that either they are not interested in knowing the truth, or they do not have the answer to it.
This is just the beginning.
Thanks
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Peace Hafeez.
Those who are waiting to receive the scripture in person,will wait a long time to understand "Salat".
Salat has survived since Abraham and will carry on surviving for as long as there are "believers"
231
Successful are the believers;232
who are reverent during their Salat....
239
And they observe their Salat regularly.As for 19 29-30-31, Your understanding of salat in verse 31 as "message" is an error?
Verse 30 says " GOD has given me the scripture and made me a prophet" here the scripture is the message.
Verse 31 says" God has enjoined/advised...me to observe/do the Salat and Zakat for as long as I live".
I do not see the problem you see.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace good logic
As for 19 29-30-31, Your understanding of salat in verse 31 as "message" is an error?
I am myself looking for an answer, how can I translate salat as message. If I had done that then I have committed a mistake. I scanned all my post but I never found it. If you remember where I posted then please let me know.
this was the translation I posted
So she pointed to him. They said, "How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?" said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah. He has given me the BOOK and made me a prophet and He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive And dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant (19 29/30/31)
Verse 31 says" God has enjoined/advised...me to observe/do the Salat and Zakat for as long as I live".
I do not see the problem you see.
There is a little problem
The correct translation and has enjoined me WITH the salat and zakah
your translation God has enjoined/advised...me to observe/do the Salat and Zakat
the highlighted part is not in the verse and BIS SALAT is translated as SALAT only whereas it should be WITH the SALAT and ZAKAH
What Jesus was supposed to do with SALAT and ZAKAT (that was the original question) with no further specific command to him when he was a child. Whether he was enjoined/advised TO ESTABLISH/OBSERVE the SALAT and GIVE ZAKAT. Had this been included in the verse then there would have been no confusion. Now it is only left upon us to assume that he was enjoined/advised TO ESTABLISH the SALAT and GIVE ZAKAT.
thanks
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Peace Hafeez.
Thanks for clarifying that you have not translated salat as message. Sorry for implying you did.
However, "Awsani bi" the salat means enjoined me to observe/do . I do not see "with" in that sentence. The "bi" goes with Awsani. Also the end of the sentence"as long as I live" confirms the meaning.
It appears we see /understand it differently.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace good logic
Nothing to debate or argue only for knowledge purpose.
(19317)
bil-alati
the prayer P ? prefixed preposition bi
N ? genitive feminine nounhttp//snag.gy/OPxxW.jpg
Say, "Call upon Allah or call upon the Most Merciful. Whichever you call - to Him belong the best names." And do not recite loudly in your prayer or quietly but seek between that an way. (17 110)
BI is the word of Allah and it has some meaning and it just cannot be ignored.
This preposition is the maximum neglected by the translators in the whole Quran as if it is not the word of Allah but of a mankind which carries no weight and the primary reason of their neglecting is that their translation with the preposition does not match with the hypothesis/belief of the sectarians/hadithers. I can give you ample examples of fraud of the translators.
There are 4 verses in the Quran wherein SALAT is prefixed by BI but only in one verse 17110 this word BI is not neglected. The rest three are 1931 1955 20132
It is not accidental or a mistake committed by all the translators BUT it is a deliberate act.
Thanks for being patient.
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Peace Hafeez.
"bi" used with verbs can have different meanings as it is relating the action.
"Awsani bi the salat", "Saribun bi nahar", "La tajhar bi Salatica"...etc.
For example ,you have used "With" and "in" for "bi" why? .
I am not ignoring "bi" when I say the whole "Awsani bi the salat" means enjoined me to observe/do the salat.
Qoran is unlike any other book, translating word by word or relying on dictionaries is of no use,
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace good logic
For example ,you have used "With" and "in" for "bi" why? .
It depends on the context. There are other meanings also FOR/BY/BY MEANS OF/THROUGH/AT/ON
"Awsani bi the salat" means enjoined me to observe/do the salat.
You have translated BIL SALAT as SALAT only. you missed out BI
remember BI is an inseparable preposition. you cannot separate it from the suffixed word.
http//snag.gy/g4fQR.jpg
BI ISMILLAH, BI REHMATIKA, BI HAMDIKA, BI GHAIR, BIL LAIL, BIN NAHAR, BIL BAYT etc
Qoran is unlike any other book, translating word by word or relying on dictionaries is of no use,
Correct, but that does not mean we should omit the actual Arabic words of the verse from the translation.
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Peace Hafeez.
I have not omitted any words. I translated the sentence together.
For example if I translate the following " Yawma yukshafu an saakin" as " The day you will be exposed",I have not translated "Saakin" as "Thigh/upper leg" ,but I have not omitted it either. The whole expression has that meaning.
Like I said ,we do have different understanding.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace good logic
For example if I translate the following " Yawma yukshafu an saakin" as " The day you will be exposed",I have not translated "Saakin" as "Thigh/upper leg" ,but I have not omitted it either. The whole expression has that meaning.
You have omitted the preposition UN
let us check the different traditional translation
The Day that the shin shall be laid bare (Abdullah Yusuf Ali)
The Day the shin will be uncovered (Sahih International)
On the day when it befalleth in earnest, (Pickthall)
Remember the Day whereon the shank shall be bared (Daryabadi)
On the day when there shall be a severe affliction (Habib Shakir )
The day you will be exposed", (Good logic)All translations differ from each other
YAUM = day
KASHAF = To uncover, to remove, to bare, to reveal, to disclose, to be exposed,
UN = Of, from, about because, away from, out of, inspite of, concerning,
SAUQ = To herd, to drive, market place, a sequence, leg, tree trunk, to convey, to direct, to channel,
With these meanings if we translate then it will be a nonsense translation because it is an Arabic idiomhttp//snag.gy/b2Jmx.jpg
(On the) day (they) will be confused/perplexed/baffled and shall be called to prostrate but they shall not be able (to prostrate)
Thanks
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Peace Hafeez.
If I say" Allahu awsani bi alamali alssalih" and I translate as God enjoined me to do the good deeds" what is wrong with that?
I have ignored the "bi" ?
Jesus said " ...Wa awsani bi Assalat wa alzakat ma dumtu hayyan", translated as " ...and He (GOD) enjoined me to do the salat and the zakat for as long as I live."
I have also ignored the "bi".
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace,
and He (GOD) enjoined me WITH the salat and the zakat for as long as I live.
This is a child in the cradle saying these things. This denotes the unique way Jesus received the message. He was born with the salat and zakat. The expression "enjoined WITH" the salat and zakat is evidence of this. Salat and zakat are properties of Jesus since birth.
Without the 'bi' the verse would self-contradict. A messenger that is blessed from birth with salat and zakat, who received Gods message neither from speaking with God (contrary to eg Musa) nor from a malaika messenger (contrary to eg Muhammad) being instructed TO establish these things later in his life would cause self-contradiction. Not to say inconsistency.
"Indeed I am a slave of Allah" is incompatible with "I'm enjoined TO salat and zakat (in the future)
It is compatible however with "I'm enjoined WITH salat and zakat in the present" as Jesus is a slave of Allah already, born that way.
@hafeez you are still misunderstanding this is the reaffirmation of an instruction, I hope it's clear it's incompatible with 1930 to understand it as an instruction. A blessed prophet from birth, given the Scripture from Birth, being instructed to salat and zakat in the future? How could Jesus be a blessed prophet and a slave of Allah if he wasn't establishing zakat and salat already?
Peace
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You used other examples in another thread of yours, I'll use them to show you how ENJOINED WITH and ENJOINED TO are related to eachother
The code ENJOINED the companies TO trade fair.
=> Logic dictates this means there was no earlier instruction for companies to trade fair from any code. The establishment of fair trade is in the FUTURE. In the past companies were not bound by convenant (enjoined) to trade fair. Companies can not be held responsible for unfair trade that occurred before that instruction.
Once these companies sign, ratify that convenant to trade fair, one can say
The code ENJOINED the companies WITH fair trade.
=> Logic dictates in this expression the companies have already ratified a convenant to trade fair in THE PAST. Not all companies may in reality be trading fair in the present but they are still bound by the convenant/agreement they ratified in the past to trade fair and can be held responsible, even for actions in THE PAST (upto the moment of ratifying that code).
Relating this back to Jesus. Jesus already received the scripture, was a Prophet, made a convenant WITH God in the PAST. He is enjoined WITH. (1930 is present tense, the code was already ratified before these verses). Given these speak about a child in the cradle, it's not incorrect to say this instruction was given from birth. Looking inside Quran, probably even before Jesus' birth. As Quran describes mailaika sent to Maryam (345). None to Jesus however.
ENJOINED TO
NO INSTRUCTION - RECEPTION OF THE INSTRUCTION - EXECUTION OF THE INSTRUCTION
ENJOINED WITH
RECEPTION OF THE INSTRUCTION - EXECUTION OF INSTRUCTION - EXECUTION OF INSTRUCTION/REAFFIRMATION OF INSTRUCTION - EXECUTION OF THE INSTRUCTION
Peace
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You have taken one step forward, brother, but not reached all the way.
Be well
Sometimes what lays ahead of people is hell.
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Peace good logic
If I say" Allahu awsani bi alamali alssalih" and I translate as God enjoined me to do the good deeds" what is wrong with that?
I have ignored the "bi" ?
You been assigned a job of translating Quran which are the words of Allah and not of a mankind.
what is the reason behind omitting the word of Allah from the translation. What compels you do this. With words omitted how can you claim your translation as perfect. Why are you committing the same mistake which the traditional translators committed. Have you ever thought why it is BIL SALAT and not SALAT in the verse? What was the need for Allah to prefix BI with SALAT. By ignoring the preposition you are indirectly challenging the wisdom of Allah. Allah's verses are perfect with BI and it needs no change. By omitting BI from the translation the translators have proved that BI is WRONG and useless in the verse and they have corrected it by removing it from their translation.BI is an inseparable preposition. There are hundreds of words prefixed with BI in the Quran, why the BI of all the verses is not removed from the translation? Why BI of only specific verses are removed? Doesn't this rattle your mind?
I am not the authority to question you why you ignored BI. You are at liberty to follow your desires.
I believe in honesty and honesty includes the translation of the Quran according to the WORDS of the Quran, because Allah has given me no right to remove/omit/neglect any of His words from the translation. I f I do this DELIBERATELY then I am dishonest to Allah and the reader.
No offence please. I did not intend to hurt your feeling/emotions/sentiments. If you feel offended then I ask for forgiveness in advance.
Thanks
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Peace Hafeez.
I have not removed "bi" from my translation.That is why I put the question to you.
For me the whole expression including "bi" has that meaning.
I have explained by giving you examples.Please do not apologise,you are entitled to ask. I have not been offended.
GOD bless you brother.
Peace. -
PEACE GOOD LOGIC
Allahu GOD has awsani ENJOINED ME bi WITH/BY/FOR/IN (whatever that fits the context) alamali THE DEEDS alssalih THE GOOD
There is no way that you can DELETE the preposition. There is no WITH/BY/FOR/IN etc in your translation.
This is not a literal translation but a casual translation.
We are Best Aware of what they say, and thou (O Muhammad) art in no wise a compeller over them. But warn BY the Qur'an him who feareth My threat 5045
can you translate the above verse by omitting/deleting/neglecting BI. No you cant because you are forced to do so otherwise you will end up with a nonsense translation.
Why this honesty is not displayed while translating other verses of BI. It was done intentionally.
He said, "He says, 'It is a cow neither trained to plow the earth nor to irrigate the field, one free from fault with no spot upon her.' " They said, "Now you have come with the truth." So they slaughtered her, but they could hardly do it. (Al-Baqara 71)
I can give you 100s of verses where honesty is maintained. But whenever the BI or any other preposition in the verse contradicts or is contrary to the belief / hypothesis / practice of the sectarians/hadithers, the translators distort the translation by omitting the prepositions.
4101
Translation Shorten the salat. MIN disappears in the translation, WHY? Because no one can shorten FROM/OF the salat, therefore it is better to omit in the translation so there are no questions raised.
The translators studied hadith before translating the Quran therefore they validate the nonsense hadith by distorting the verses of the Quran.
Then let them complete the rites prescribed for them, perform their vows, and (again) circumambulate the Ancient House." 2229
Since the translators knew through hadith that tawaff was done of kaaba, they tried to validate that nonsense by distorting the meaning of BI L BAYT. It is not BAYT but BI L BAYT. Literally it should be WITH/BY/FOR/IN/AT BAYT. But as tawaf cannot be done WITH/BY/FOR/IN/AT the BAYT AL ATEEQ, they omitted BI from their translation and the readers who have become zombies don't realize it. These translators have committed an unforgivable crime by distorting the book of Allah and astraying the believers.
Thanks for being patient, cool, calm and respectful.
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Peace Hafeez.
I have given you my understanding. I repeat The "bi" is included in my translation. That is my honest opinion.
If you read my posts I always provide you with the "Arabic version". You give your understanding ,I have given mine. Then everyone is free to choose .
As for what others do,,you have to ask them . I cannot answer for them.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
peace hk, gl,
Perhaps I can help summarise
gl feels he has translated "bi" which he rendered as "to do" and thinks this is fine.
hk is saying "bi" more rightly means "by/with/for/in" and highlights various verses showing this and where Traditional translators have been inconsistent with "bi".
Thus, it is a matter of can "bi" mean "to do" or not. gl needs to provide Quranic evidence for this.
Personally, I think gl's translation is suspect.
