Shabbir's findings on Ramadan
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Peace Ayman,
Ayman said
Ayman this is not true. The meaning of fully moon is not there, this is your interpretation of the meaning of 'moon' and 'famous and prominent.' You combined prominent and moon to get prominent moon which you associated with full moon. Could you translitarate or post the Arabic of the entry in Lisaan al-Arab that says 'full moon.'
Godbless,
AnwarCan you respond to the above allegation?
Yours truly,
K.Vivekanandan
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http//books.google.com/books?id=lceqd9FKhsAC&pg=PA228&lpg=PA228&dq=shahr+full+moon&source=bl&ots=dPrgWo_Z9j&sig=cLi9C9biXyq0VShpxskQDAOQKk0&hl=es&ei=pLR3SrXLOMeptgf1udmWCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2#v=onepage&q=shahr%20full%20moon&f=false
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace Siki,
you need to go through Hot ramadhan thread again, and again, you will find the answers.
siki
I already read the thread posted by Ayman titled "Hot Ramadhan" where he argued that the words Shahr and Ramadhan mean full moon and hot in classical Arabic respectively. Since progod(Anwar) said that shahr means month and completely clear moon but not full moon as interpreted by Ayman. Since I do not know Arabic and hence cannot even check with Lisan al Arab dictionary, I wanted to get it clarified and confirmed by Ayman.
Yours truly,
K.Vivekanandan
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Dear vivek
I am just trying to help out ayman here, I hope you don't mind,
I don't have access to lisanul arab however lane lexicon , which is considered to be an authority on classical arabic says the following,
= Shiin-ha-Ra = make it notable/known/manifest/public/infamous (in a bad or good sense), hire/contract for a month, stay a month, month old, month, new moon, moon, full moon, any evil thing that exposes its author to disgrace, a vice/fault or the like, big & bulky, reputable/eminent.
shahr n.m. (pl. shuhur and ashur) 2185, 2185, 2194, 2194, 2197, 2217, 2226, 2234, 492, 52, 597, 92, 95, 936, 936, 3412, 3412, 4615, 584, 654, 973
LL, V4, p 336, 337
see, it also lists full moon as one of the meaning,
Vivek dear,it took me almost two years to fully grasp ayman's postulate, so you need to go over the thread again and again.
Here are the reasons that made me change my opinion regarding this arabic term shahar.
First of all , through out quran , where ever the word is used weather you translate it as month or full moon, Both make sense and do give out logical sentence meanings, However at couple of places Full moon makes more of sense.
1; in 2-185 the word used is shahad , which correctly translates as "seeing some thing", One can not see a month, where as one can see the full moon.
2- 97-1 says that quran was revealed in one night , so it becomes insignificant for that event to stretch into a whole month, Quran being sent down on the night of qadar , which happened to be shaha ur ramadhan or the full moon night of scorching heat makes perfect sense.
3- In 2-228 God uses menses as a marker to start calculating divorced women's waiting/interim . As start of the periods, or coming of the blood is an event /marker, but in 65-4 in case of women who are old not to have periods or whose periods are irregular, and as such cannot rely upon this event. As duration between two periods is approx equal to a period between two full moons, so for such women, God substitutes shahar for menses, to start her waiting count, "this makes absolute sense".
4- Moreover , if we take shahar as a month then the waiting days of these women (menopausal, ) increases by 29 days more than a fertile women, This does not make sense, as to why should God increase the waiting period of old women ? if at all, there had to be a difference , It should have been opposite.
I am sure there are some more , but at present i can only remember above.
siki
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vivek,
if you go over all the meanings given by lane, you will find that it translates as , big bulky, something obvious, eminent noticeable known etc, so it cannot be , the cresent moon, because it does not relate as such, where as the full bright moon does.
so in my opinion, month , is evolved/corrupted meaning.
Most likely, when people saw the full bright moon , they realised , "Oh , a certain time period has passed ", as the shahar has come again. So over a period of time sighting the full moon started to get related with a certain time period , and evolved into a month.
siki
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Peace siki,
Here are the reasons that made me change my opinion regarding this arabic term shahar.
First of all , through out quran , where ever the word is used weather you translate it as month or full moon, Both make sense and do give out logical sentence meanings, However at couple of places Full moon makes more of sense.
1; in 2-185 the word used is shahad , which correctly translates as "seeing some thing", One can not see a month, where as one can see the full moon.
To know is to see and one can know without physically seeing. The blind and people living in cloudy weather also fast.
650 Say "Do the blind and the seeing become equal, so do you not think?"
2- 97-1 says that quran was revealed in one night , so it becomes insignificant for that event to stretch into a whole month, Quran being sent down on the night of qadar , which happened to be shaha ur ramadhan or the full moon night of scorching heat makes perfect sense.
Yes, started that night, did the entire download complete? When did these events take place, same night?
3124 When you say to the believers "Is it not sufficient for you that your Lord extends (supplies) you with three thousand from the angels sent descending?"
663 And when the prophet confided to some (of) his wives an information, so when she informed with it (others) and God made it apparent on (to) him, he made some of it known and he opposed from some, so when he informed her with it, she said "Who informed you (of) this?" He said "The knowledgeable, the expert informed me."
80 He frowned and turned away that the blind came to him?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aHoM3E2Go3- In 2-228 God uses menses as a marker to start calculating divorced women's waiting/interim . As start of the periods, or coming of the blood is an event /marker, but in 65-4 in case of women who are old not to have periods or whose periods are irregular, and as such cannot rely upon this event. As duration between two periods is approx equal to a period between two full moons, so for such women, God substitutes shahar for menses, to start her waiting count, "this makes absolute sense".
4- Moreover , if we take shahar as a month then the waiting days of these women (menopausal, ) increases by 29 days more than a fertile women, This does not make sense, as to why should God increase the waiting period of old women ? if at all, there had to be a difference , It should have been opposite.
Obviously, women and their periods are all over the place depending on the woman. lol
Especially when they get older, so waiting time is increased to insure they are not pregnant.I am sure there are some more , but at present i can only remember above.
Yes plenty like fasting anywhere from 29-59 days (2 full moons) depending on date when Quran says exactly 2 months.
492?and freeing/liberating a believing neck, so who does not find, so fasting two months following each other, a repentance from at God, and God is knowledgeable, wise/judicious.