Please Help with quranic word Kasfin makulin in 105:5
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Dear bkanwar, all,
Yes I've read your translation carrefuly but adding (tashdeed) where there aren't is like modifying the original message which is something I do not support.
I am more traditionalist then and I think this story has more to do with historical events, one of the hypothesis I found is a volcan eruption that killed the army of the elefant which did not occur in Mecca but more in North West Arabia.
This is supported by the 2 following points
1- To cross the desert to get to Mecca with an elefant is not easy thing to do, knowing the quantity of water needed for an elefant to survive in the desert! (sunni version)
2- Scientific research can show that an eruption occured in North West Arabia in 640AD and killed many people and it is on the road to Sirya.
3- No way to proof presence of elefant in Yemen (sunni version)please see http//www.volcano.si.edu/world/volcano.cfm?vnum=0301-02=&volpage=photos&photo=104063
an other hypothesis is the Jordan river battle between the arabs and the Byzantins (the people of the elefant) where Heraclius lost the battle.
Regards
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Dear Herbman thanks, you did share this in past. I do not think this one by any means could be considered original version of Al-Kitab. In addition, this one, if one were to pay attention neither have all diacritical marks nor it is complete. I just got excited by your claim of not liking to see a teshdeed compared to original text. Would you please elaborate? What is your Gold Standard for original text? Thanks again.
Badar
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Dear bkanwar, all,
Yes I've read your translation carrefuly but adding (tashdeed) where there aren't is like modifying the original message which is something I do not support.
I am more traditionalist then and I think this story has more to do with historical events, one of the hypothesis I found is a volcan eruption that killed the army of the elefant which did not occur in Mecca but more in North West Arabia.
This is supported by the 2 following points
1- To cross the desert to get to Mecca with an elefant is not easy thing to do, knowing the quantity of water needed for an elefant to survive in the desert! (sunni version)
2- Scientific research can show that an eruption occured in North West Arabia in 640AD and killed many people and it is on the road to Sirya.
3- No way to proof presence of elefant in Yemen (sunni version)please see http//www.volcano.si.edu/world/volcano.cfm?vnum=0301-02=&volpage=photos&photo=104063
an other hypothesis is the Jordan river battle between the arabs and the Byzantins (the people of the elefant) where Heraclius lost the battle.
Regards
But where is in the verse that elephants came to Mecca?
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No where
But any one dares to refute this story ;Dhttp//www.load-islam.com/artical_det.php?artical_id=405§ion=family_society&subsection=Children
The story may seem impressive to such of the Muslims who are most of the time in the trap of emotionalism. The author in a subtle manner has named an elephant as mehmud. Ahmad and Muhammad were never adopted by anyone before him. Mehmud is exclusively the Last Messenger Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam. And secondly he inserted that the messenger/emissary was killed. Meccans were not such type of people.
A female elephant carries its baby in its womb seven years before it gives birth to a well-grown elephant baby with full teeth, non-missing organs although it is small in size.
And a correction may also be made that in elephants the gestation period is 645 days/22 months and not 7 years as told in the story.
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Dear Brother Mazhar, your response seems just a red herring to topic under discussion. Please share do you believe that this verse has anything to do with said historical incident. This is irrespective of details of incidence.
Badar
Which response you are terming "red herring" to topic under discussion? One was for meanings of a word and the other was to the story referred by afridi.
Which "said historical incident" are you referring and what is the name of the historian who narrated that incident.
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Dear Herbman let us get to very basics. Do you believe that all of this book commonly known, as AlQur'an is book guidance and for all times to come? Based on your response we might be able to progress this discussion in a rationale way to reach some conclusions.
Badar
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Dear bkanwar2,
The answer to this question is YES sure.
I take the opportunity to answer you this question too
Dear Herbman, I want to thank you and acknowledge you for well researched, reason and logic based responses, duly backed by appropriate references. However, it is becoming increasingly apparent to me that actual message is more about, what Modern scholars of philosophy call Natural Laws. Hence, to use words relating to Divine mythology will not make sense. What do you think?
I think in a certain way you are right, the natural law you are refering to are basic laws you cannot go against otherwise you are in contradiction with your environment and therefore in contersense. But my point of view is that the message is understandable by anyone who dare spent sometime on it. Also what you are suggesting is not new, Suffies were saying Quran has a kind of hidden message accessable only by the "ones who knows", meaning only a category of people has access to it!!!
Peace
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Dear Herbman, thanks for a reasonable and rationale answer again. If Alkitab, is really a book for eternal guidance; how could it describe an event fixed in time? What are the implications for present time or times to come? However, interpreting Alkitab this way does seem to benefit, ones doing it. In addition, interpreting this Sura in traditional way does seem to benefit ones doing it; this by implying them to be as esteemed or only ones having direct communication with Rubb; to a degree, that Rubb chose divine interventions suspending normal laws of Universe to save them.
Brother this book is indeed easy to understand for anybody and everybody. Is there anyone wanting too, should be the question
Badar