Different Interpretations ....?@!
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I've been thinking for a long time and this is really driving me crazy. The other day, I managed to read a teeny bit of Conversations with God by Neil Walsch which is a book in which the Author claims to have had a two-way conversation with God. Now, I haven't read enough of that book to judge whether it's the truth or not (well, I wouldn't be in that position even I'd read the entire thing) but I caught a glimpse of something I found very, very interesting.
Basically, the author asks "God" why he doesn't talk to people ,generally. The "god" from the book tells him that he's wrong and that he chooses to use the word 'communicate'. The "god" here tells him that he DOES communicate with people through their feelings and experiences and using WORDS is always his last resort because words and text happen to be the most exploited, abused, misunderstood, misinterpreted means of communication there is. Now these few words, really struck a chord. Whether they were the words of God or not, I felt that couldn't have been said better and they were indisputably, a hundred per cent true.
I mean, that's exactly the problem we have over here. Even within the people who say that the Qur'an is our source of guidance and it contains all the information we need pertaining to the religion, there are sooo many different freakin translations and interpretations to the SAME TEXT. It's frustrating, because at the end of the day, they both have equally strong arguments and there's no way in the world to determine which interpretation is what GOD meant.
People say that these differences do not matter, and that following the one that makes the most sense to us is not a problem because they all eventually lead to god, but puh-lease! I sooo beg to differ! We don't realize how dangerous these difference in interpretations are. To begin with, they created the great divide between Muslims (hadith followers and hadith rejectors) and paved the way for a completely new set of rules and things that have limited Muslim men and women for CENTURIES. Things that have led to people leaving the religion and slandering it's name. These different interpretations can change the we live. Something as stupid and small as these different interpretations can lead to a whole mass of people who don't have hands or pious men who comfortably beat the crap out of their wives. It can change the way we practice the religion or the general outlook on Islam.
It's a scary thing, but its just a true fact that one thing can be translated in so many different ways, and one word can mean a whole list of different things. That's the way things are, and the way I see it right now, a small misinterpretation of a verse can send us rollin' to hell and there's nothing we can do about it! Grrrr...Now, I think that's hella UNFAIR!
So is there anything in the Qur'an that deals with this? What do you think?
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Basically, the author asks "God" why he doesn't talk to people ,generally. The "god" from the book tells him that he's wrong and that he chooses to use the word 'communicate'. The "god" here tells him that he DOES communicate with people through their feelings and experiences and using WORDS is always his last resort because words and text happen to be the most exploited, abused, misunderstood, misinterpreted means of communication there is. Now these few words, really struck a chord. Whether they were the words of God or not, I felt that couldn't have been said better and they were indisputably, a hundred per cent true.
A little problem in the logic board! The above statement is ironic, since it is communicated via WORDS, not emotions or spongy feelings. If you praise emotions and feelings by words and use the very words to show that words are useless, perhaps you need think more on the subject matter.
I disagree with you and the author of that book. The different understanding may be caused by vague words. However, most of the differences in understanding is cause by the different background, knowledge level, culture, emotions, feelings, interests, and dogmas of the readers. I blame FEELINGS and EMOTIONS for most of the disagreements among us. I argue that the author of that book is a clever charlatan and commits many logical fallacies. Yet, he succeeds to peddle many false ideas to non-critical readers.
Peace,
Edip -
I understand what you mean, and I even thought of it when I wrote these WORDS struck a chord. But still, we're comparing a simple statement to an ENTIRE SCRIPTURE filled with words. I believe that this statement is pretty clear and unambiguous but, it's not the same with the Qur'an. Various translations and rulings are derived from the same verses. I guess, in plain, you can't avoid unambiguity, especially with texts that were written over thousand years ago.
Secondly, I'm not saying that communicating with words is wrong. It only gives rise to "misinterpretation". The question here is about how we let these words govern OUR LIVES? I'm not trying to reject the scripture or whatever, but I'm just wondering if there's some sort of a surprise in the book, waiting to spring out at me and deal with this problem.
Really, I'm not tryin to pick a fight here, I really am confused ???
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It is all about what's in your heart.
Coran 37
He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book in it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book others are not of well-established meaning. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is not of well-established meaning. Seeking discord, and searching for its interpretation, but no one knows its true meanings except Allah, and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in it; the whole of it is from our Lord"; and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
Peace
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It's all in the heart? So why do we have so many things ordained for us to practice? And anyone practical would understand that sometimes the "heart" is misleading and our instincts only formed by the environment and what we're conditioned to think! I really don't think "following the heart" is the solution...
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peace CG,
Note Al Quran = AQ
I would think almost all forms of communication can potentially be misunderstood by the receiver. Sometimes a book is only as good as its reader.
As a side note, if we go by what AQ says, then most of the info we receive is in a non-word/scripture format, e.g. the signs/ayatin are everywhere, see 4153.Even within the people who say that the Qur'an is our source of guidance and it contains all the information we need pertaining to the religion, there are sooo many different freakin translations and interpretations to the SAME TEXT. It's frustrating, because at the end of the day, they both have equally strong arguments and there's no way in the world to determine which interpretation is what GOD meant.
Some people see it as frustrating, and perhaps understandably so. I used to, to some degree, but not now. I see it as a powerful internal distinguishing mechanism (AQ has many from my studies, e.g. 37, 391. Have you ever wondered why the basics are never disputed? e.g. no-one argues about if they should be honest or not, steal or not, if its better to opt for peace/forgiveness or get revenge, if its better to provide for the needy/poor or not etc. Could it be because the basics are what is most important? To me, the answer is obvious.
And the beauty of the system is that it is all upon the individual. You wont be held responsible for what your neighbour/friend/parent/spouse/cat/etc did. It is all on you. So, since we know it is all on us, what is a person to do? To ensure that they are sincere, this is critical and should never be compromised. If there is one million interpretations and one is not sure which one is correct, then study, research, verify, listen, weigh, consider etc to the best of one's ability, and then opt for what is the most righteous/accurate/just/etc. If one is sincere in this, humble in this, thoughtful in this, and has tried their best, do you honestly think we will be sent "rollin' to Hell" (as you say) if we get it wrong? As the wisdom goes sometimes the point is not in the accomplishment, it is in the doing.
So is there anything in the Qur'an that deals with this? What do you think?
Yes, loads. I recommend Muhammad Asad's translation, if you prefer English.
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Brother Wakas, thanks I felt that was a really intelligent answer.
peace CG,
If one is sincere in this, humble in this, thoughtful in this, and has tried their best, do you honestly think we will be sent "rollin' to Hell" (as you say) if we get it wrong? As the wisdom goes sometimes the point is not in the accomplishment, it is in the doing.But Yeah I've thought of that too. But like I mentioned, our lifestyles can be SOO drastically different by just picking a different interpretation. Like I mentioned, whether we follow the Hadith or not (which is definitely a VERY serious issue) is gonna be based on our interpretation of "Obey God and Obey the Messenger". Personally I feel, both viewpoints make a lot of sense!
I thought about it, and its quite shocking that according to our beliefs, anyone who rejects Allah and the Qur'an is surely doomed for eternity. What about those people who were sincere and just ended up with the wrong conclusions? We have so many of those, people who just got the wrong idea, and took a different path as us. They believe that they're correct...But we believe that OUR truth is gonna bite them in the butt one day. Poor them, huh?
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based on our interpretation of "Obey God and Obey the Messenger". Personally I feel, both viewpoints make a lot of sense!
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Personally, I think the Traditional arguments make very little sense.
I thought about it, and its quite shocking that according to our beliefs, anyone who rejects Allah and the Qur'an is surely doomed for eternity.
That is not my belief, and from my studies nor is it AQ's view. As I mentioned to you before "islam" is a descriptive word, mindset, an approach. This may seem like a small point, but understanding the meaning will unlock some of these core questions.
Also, you imply you know many sincere people. I would like to know where you live so I can consider moving there! Maybe it's just me, but I hardly know anyone who actively studies their own beliefs and thinking, in order to ensure they minimise their bias/errors, who opt for what is most accurate irrespective of peer views, do not care about looking good but being good, are not motivated by material things, no hidden agendas etc etc. I am not saying I am these things, nor would I ever say that, what I am saying is there is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. -
I'm sorry for the late relpy...
About your claim that it's not necessary that only Muslims can gain salvation, I didn't say anything because I had no knowledge. But I came across a verse recently so I thought I'd share it on the forum so please let me know what you think
If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).
(The Holy Quran, Al-e-Imran 385)Secondly, Bro Wakas, only God knows whats in the hearts of each one of us but honestly, there are six billion people living in the world and there millions of sects, beliefs and ideology. Of course, there are loads of people who deceive and have false agendas but I strongly believe, and I know for sure that each group of people will definitely have followers who have sincerely searched and have come to the conclusion that they have the truth. There's always a chance that they're missing out somewhere, but I'm sure that in every group of people there always those who do try their best.
I know it makes no sense for me to say this because obviously, as far as any of you reading is considered, I could be lying but I personally do believe that as much as I know, I've cleared my mind of prejudices and biases and I really am searching for the truth with all my heart, and I've never rejected anything out of blindness and arrogance. I really don't know for sure what the truth is, I can only hope to be guided. What I'm trying to say is that I'm sure there are so many others just like me but with different beliefs, backgrounds, and in-built mindsets!
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Re 385
As I said the word "islam" is an actual ordinary descriptive Arabic word. It is used very commonly in AQ as such. Note, in the translation you referenced, the word is capitalised, making it a title, proper noun. This does not give a true representation of the word. Also not for the word "deen" either, translated as "religion".
Even if someone felt islam is primarily a title, then it is for them to explain why other parts of AQ, such as 262 imply otherwise. Of course, since you have probably read AQ, then I assume you already know of this verse.
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Personally, I think the Traditional arguments make very little sense.
Also, you imply you know many sincere people. I would like to know where you live so I can consider moving there! Maybe it's just me, but I hardly know anyone who actively studies their own beliefs and thinking, in order to ensure they minimise their bias/errors, who opt for what is most accurate irrespective of peer views, do not care about looking good but being good, are not motivated by material things, no hidden agendas etc etc.
Salaam Wakas,
handshake
there is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.
Absolutely!!! bravo
God bless
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Even if someone felt islam is primarily a title, then it is for them to explain why other parts of AQ, such as 262 imply otherwise. Of course, since you have probably read AQ, then I assume you already know of this verse.
Absolutely!! I find it funny how traditionalists put this under the carpet by twisting it to refer to only those before the Prophet Muhammeds time and not today and yet they say quran is for the past, present and future ???
They've shackled the quran into a history book using historical books to explain it. Damn them!!!!!!
PEACE
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Absolutely!! I find it funny how traditionalists put this under the carpet by twisting it to refer to only those before the Prophet Muhammeds time and not today and yet they say quran is for the past, present and future ???
They've shackled the quran into a history book using historical books to explain it. Damn them!!!!!!
PEACE
That is so true. They have details for everything, starting from using miswak instead of toothpaste, and promoting the eating of pumpkin because that was apparently the Prophet's favourite food.
