Jonah---Never swallowed by a whale
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Jonah
37139 And, behold, Jonah was indeed among the Messengers.
37140 When he fled like a runaway slave onto a laden ship. (Abaqa = Fled like a runaway slave. He migrated before Allahs Command. 2187).
37141 He had cast an arrow and missed the mark. (Untimely action.)37142 Then the Fish grabbed him while he was blaming himself. (Again, usually a whale is mentioned here. But the whale is a mammal and not a fish, and the Quran
which is never inaccurate, speaks of Al-Hut = The Fish. Fa-altaqamahu = Grabbed him in its teeth, not swallowed. The fiction of Jonah staying 40 days in the belly of a whale is demolished right thus).
37143 And had he not been a valiant swimmer,(tasbihun)
37144 (The fish would have eaten him up and) he would have remained in her belly disintegrated there and further until the Day of Rising.
37145Then We cast him on the shore, while he was exhausted. (6849).Jonah was never swallowed by a fish, as EVERY fish known on earth will have to bite you in pieces before he can swallow you. Whales are not fish, but mammals. In the time of Muhammed this was unknown and through believing the Bible was a authority, the understanding became distorted. Even a spermwhale will not swallow you in hole but bite you several times. In the stomach you will also have oxygen shortage and the acid will be to strong to endure. The Laws of Nature do not allow the believe that Jonah survived the swallowing. Next to this is that the Arabic doesnt even allow it.
The word iltaqama doesn't mean to swallow, it comes from the same root as laqm which means a small bite or little piece, iltiqama means he took him in his mouth/grabbed him in his teeth, as for example iltaqama fa-ha-fi-l-taqbil means he took her lips in his mouth during kissing. These verses are totally distorted by the Biblical account as the Bible was seen as an authority by the early commentators. Tasbih means one swims, gliding along smoothly, who go forth in their quest.
In 2187 zoeloemat al-bahr means calamities or distress at sea. That it also refers to darkness is because the human is not able to find his way out of the distress and harm, and by thus is wandering in darkness. It is important to know the whole background of Arabic words to understand these verses. So by no means at all does the darkness refers to being inside a belly of a fish, which is also impossible as any belly contains acid. The darkness refers to the distress of the situation.
Al-Hoot/hut means Fish and not Whale. See for example the story of Moses
37142 Failtaqamahu al-hootu wahuwamuleemun
Then the Fish grabbed him while he was blaming himself.1861 But when Moses with his young friend reached the junction of the two streams, they forgot all about the fish/al-hoot, and it took its way into the sea and disappeared from sight. (Moses found himself caring little for the delicacies of life from then on).
Sources
- Lane's Lexicon Arabic-Englsih dictionary
- Dictionary of the Holy Quran by Abdul Amman Omar
- The Message, Quran translation by Muhammed Asad
- QXP, Quran translation by Dr.Shabbir Ahmad
- The Holy Quran, commentary by Muhammed Ali
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Hi Arnold-
The whale shark is the biggest "fish" in the ocean. It is a "filter feeder" which I believe means it swims around with it's mouth wide open (can be about 5 feet wide). Maybe this link might be of interest http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whale_shark
Peace-
Samir -
Salaam SAbboushi,
Yes, but a Whale Shark is very friendly and does not attack humans. Also it can not swallow humans, its throat is to small. So it has nothing to do with the story of Jonah. Ancient commentators already suggested that Jonah was attacked by a normal shark and grabbed his ankle but because Jonah swam hard/tasbihun, he escaped.
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Very interestin. What about 37144 - i didnt get that, was that fish immortal?..
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One of the big issues concerning resurrection in the ancient world was how people lost at sea could come back if they were eaten by fish. I think this is part of the theme of Jonah. I think the translation influenced by the Bible is the correct one by the way, precisely because of this underlying theme. Run from God, God will find you. Disappear into the sea, God will find you. Your body destroyed, God will still reach you.
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One of the big issues concerning resurrection in the ancient world was how people lost at sea could come back if they were eaten by fish. I think this is part of the theme of Jonah. I think the translation influenced by the Bible is the correct one by the way, precisely because of this underlying theme. Run from God, God will find you. Disappear into the sea, God will find you. Your body destroyed, God will still reach you.
Of course Jonah was probably not swallowed by a fish, it is just a story to illustrate what you just said "Run from God, God will find you. Disappear into the sea, God will find you. Your body destroyed, God will still reach you."
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Peace to all,
In the Tanakh, it never says that Jonah was swallowed by a "whale", it always refers to it as a large fish, just like the Qur'aanic description. Also, the Tanakh never says that Jonah remained in the fish for 40 days; instead, it says he remained in the belly of the fish for THREE (3) days only.
The word "faa-altaqamaahu" literally says that the fish SWALLOWED him quickly. It's taken from the root "Lam-Qaf-Miim" (same derivative as "luqmaan", and it means to eat quickly; to swallow; or to fully take in the mouth. So, the Qur'aanic passage is literally saying that the fish ATE Jonah quickly. In order for this to be the case, it would've had to SWALLOW him, since chewing him up would've killed him. We also have to note that the Qur'aan says that Allah forgave Jonah, and if He didn't, then Jonah would've 'REMAINED IN ITS BELLY'. Jonah would've had to have been in the belly in order to remain there, which means the fish actually did swallow (or eat) him...
Now, the Qur'aanic passage doesn't mention a time period. So as far as we know, Jonah could've been in there for 3 days or 3 minutes. The Qur'aan doesn't say, so we don't know for sure...
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So no one reached to a conclusion. Was he swallowed inside the fish belly or not?
The author seems logical but then there are flaws like when it is said , he would have remained in there... meaning it has to be the belly, fish cant keep you in her teeth for ever. Then the following verse where He was thrown on the shore and God grew a tree upon him.. how is that possible if he was just bitten on the ankle and escaped.. unless he was so weak by remaining several days in the stomach.Yes it does seems strange wrt science for a man to be alive in the stomach but then we also believe in angels and also believe in Jins and similar unseen stuff mentioned in Quran, which science has not proven.
So I think there are areas of the belief that is very difficult to understand unless you twist the interpretation to suit your understanding
and I feel when Quran ask us to believe in unseen(algaib) so definitely there is a test for us with lots of ambiguity involves, else if every thing was so clear and logical, every person on the planet will believe in God instantly.cheers
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It can also be symbolical language. Which has the advantage of being very inspiring in that may evoke many different thigns and perspectives. It is also not unthinkable since the Qur'an itself says that it uses symbolical language, like for paradise and hell.
Salaam
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Was he swallowed inside the fish belly or not?
No. The fish got a bite. He could've died there and then and become fish food, but he didn't.
Then the Fish grabbed him while he was blaming himself.
And had he not been a valiant swimmer,(tasbihun)
(The fish would have eaten him up and) he would have remained in her belly disintegrated there and further until the Day of Rising.
Then the following verse where He was thrown on the shore and God grew a tree upon him.. how is that possible if he was just bitten on the ankle and escaped.. unless he was so weak by remaining several days in the stomach.
The tree was already there. It didn't sprout there and then like in Super Mario. It had already grown well in advance. I guess you could say that the tree was meant to be there and Jonah was meant to end up resting under that tree, with a shade and fruits.
Then We cast him on the shore, while he was exhausted. (6849).
We made him rest under a well-grown fruity tree.
And We sent him back to his people, a hundred thousand, even more.
And this time they believed in him and so We let them enjoy this life (for a time).
Freeminds 2011
And We caused seaweed to grow on him. (wrong)
Freeminds 2013
And We caused a tree of gourd to grow on him. (wrong)
Freeminds 2015
And We caused a pumpkin tree to grow on him. (wrong)
Rashad Khalifa
We had a tree of edible fruit grown for him.
Muhammad Asad
and caused a creeping plant to grow over him .58
Note 58
I.e., to shade and comfort him. Thus, rounding off the allegory of Jonah and the fish, the Qur'an points out in the figurative manner so characteristic of its style that God, who can cause a plant to grow out of the most arid and barren soil, can equally well cause a heart lost in darkness to come back to light and spiritual life. -
Peace zayd.
Please translate the following verses ,if you do not mind
I wonder if this agrees with what you said in your earlier post?
I also wonder how one can get away from the "big fish" by swimming away no matter how good and fast a human is at swimming?
GOD bless you.
Peace -
Peace zayd.
Here is the definition of " Makthoom"
contained ; inhibited ; kept in ; penned ; pent-up ; repressed ; suppressed
bridled ; checked ; confined ; controlled ; curbed ; in check ; low-key(ed) ; restrained ; subdued ; under control
Jonah must have been "inside"?
My understanding.
GOD bless you.
Peace -
Could it be just a reference to the Prophet Muhammad about the prophet Jonah (like a reference to prophet who was about to be eaten by fish) and subsequent problems faced because he left his nation and was cast out by the boat people and had a terrible encounter with the fish which must have left him wounded etc
What I mean to say is that these 2 verses do not also implicate of the prophet Jonah being in the stomach ... in my view point.Not that I am not believing that God is capable of all things, however he has himself set many laws of nature which is not broken usually unless he himself wants it.
I feel it is more probable for a person to believe in Islam and God these days if we address such stories with logic and wisdom rather than miracles.
cheers
Peace zayd.
Please translate the following verses ,if you do not mind
I wonder if this agrees with what you said in your earlier post?
I also wonder how one can get away from the "big fish" by swimming away no matter how good and fast a human is at swimming?
GOD bless you.
Peace -
peace Fusion.
Looking at some stories from the Qoran s point of view defies our limited logic.
Did Moses part the sea?
Did Jesus heal the leper?
Was Jonah swallowed by a whale?
Was Abraham saved from the fire?
Were Noah s people drowned by the flood?
Is GOD real? That story alone can defy our logic.
Believing is both faith and reason. Logic and defying logic. It depends on how certain one is about Qoran.
GOD bless you.
Peace -
I also wonder how one can get away from the "big fish" by swimming away no matter how good and fast a human is at swimming?
I don't know what the circumstances were, whether there was a boat (or even people) nearby, how close he was to the boat or to the shore (or to the riverbank), what type of fish it was or its size, which part of his body did the fish get a bite of and how serious his injury was, whether he fought back and how, I don't know. But it's quite plausible and people do survive from shark attacks, for example.
But suppose Jonah really did get swallowed whole (by what, a whale, a fish, of what kind?), how did he get out from the belly? What do you think had happened there and why do you think this isn't far-fetched? And if you're just gonna say that he got out by God's will and grace, then why can't I say that he got away by God's will and grace?
Please translate the following verses
I'm not that good. And looking at the different translations, I don't even know what is about anymore.
http//quranix.org/68#48
http//islamawakened.com/68/48/
http//islamawakened.com/68/49/http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=68&verse=48
http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=kZm
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/11_KAF.htm
Kaf-Za-Miim
To shut, stop, abstract, suppress one?s anger, choke, tight or fill something with a check, abstain from chewing the end.
kaziim - one who is grieving inwardly and in silence, repressor of rage, filled with sorrow that is suppressed.
makzuum - oppressed and depressed with grief.
http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=kZm
http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=nb*
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/15_NUN.htm
Nun-Ba-Dhal/Thal
to throw, fling, give up, cast off, reject, throw a thing because of its worthlessness or not taking into account.
http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=nbdh
http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=Ery
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/2_AYN.htm
Ayn-Ra-Ya
to become naked, denude of (garments).
ara - bare desert or place, open field, waste land, shore.
http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=ery
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Honestly I do not believe in them, I just used the term as a figure of speech to make a point that when we cant explain things logically or we do not have the information available to us (us as in human in all times, past and present) we tend to call it a miracle.
I am sorry if I misled you into believing that I believe in them. I would like folks here to correct me please if there is such a thing as miracle.
Some times we hear and watch stories of people survive earth quakes (very few while rest all dear) and came out alive from the destroyed building after many days. I mean If God wants, all is possible, but I believe for them to be alive, there must be some laws which allowed them to be kept alive like for example some passage or room deep down there for them to have oxygen. it is not as simple that they were dead, rotten for days and then suddenly they became alive. God has created this world and we many not know all secrets and he has all power and he utilizes his nature to make things possible which otherwise looks not rational to us.
There could have been some ways that God can set in motion for Jonah to even be in fish stomach and still alive.... I do not know but it is possible-purely on the merit that we do not know all things about nature(science).
Certain things can be obvious to me while looks impossible to others hence they could term as miracle...I found the following verses (English transl from G.A.Pervaiz)
(37-142) The boat was overloaded and so it
sank. A big fish seized Jonah in its mouth,
Realising the situation Jonah cursed himself
He struggled hard and after a
lot of effort, freed himself from the grip of
the fish. If he had not done so and had he not
been a good swimmer, the fish would have
swallowed him; and it would not have been
possible for him to come out till doomsday.How do you define 'miracle'?
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Peace zayd.
You are entitled to say this
...And if you're just gonna say that he got out by God's will and grace, then why can't I say that he got away by God's will and grace?
What I was suggesting is to gather all the verses about Jonah and see if there is a consistency with one s story.
For example ,elsewhere we find this " Idh naada fi althulumaati an la ilaha illa anya inni kuntu mina ..."
Since " Althulumaat" means darkness, which darkness was it?
Does "Musabbiheen" mean glorifying/imploring or swimming? and so on....
What does Qoran really say ?
I was trying to ask more questions.If you are satisfied with your understanding,then fair enough.
GOD bless you.
Peace
