Is Qur'an Alone the Last Step Before Leaving Islam Completely?
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Peace all,
You've read the title, we all know that the Qur'an Alone movement is full of people who are at times very confused (myself included!), we need to be honest about these things and face the fact that there is so much dischord and confusion - perhaps the problem is in a misguided belief that by throwing away the Hadith we will all be headed on the same path in the same direction and at the same point in the road and hence be some enlightened group, but I doubt I am alone in my perceptions. I know many people who used to frequent this forum are now probably no longer Muslims by their own considerations, what keeps those others here and what makes you confident and comfortable in your Qur'an alone ways?
I start this thread in order to begin a thought provoking exercise, there have been 3 people frequenting the forums recently who are clearly non-Muslims/Submitters and they are welcome to participate in this discussion as it should prove to be quite an interesting debate between themselves and the more staunch and resolute Submitters?/Muslims?/People who believe the Qur'an to be divine and unchanged? members.
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Salaam,
Personally, it is the step to leave organised religion completely. I believe in monotheism, and in the divinity of the Qur'aan. "Labelling" does not matter and I recognise that some Christians, Jews, Yogis, etc, can also be "Muslims" if they believe in one God and strive to do righteous deeds.
I have less focus on practicing rituals, and more on doing humanitarian works (I still practice rituals that do not contradict Qur'aanic teachings, and have wisdom behind it).
I will not call myself "staunch" and "resolute", because I acknowledge that my perception of the world and spirituality will keep evolving as I grow older. But I can say that I feel at peace and fulfilled by following the Qur'aanic teachings.
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Quran alone is just yet another version of Islam religion.
The last step before becoming "unreligious" or "multi religious" (having or identifying oneself to more than one religion) happened once one embrace the full confidence in himself, his own thinking and apply critical thinking towards his own religion, his own thinking and his own belief.
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Peace Osman,
"Islam" (capital I, proper name religion) is nowhere to be found in al-quran, and is the name of a fabricated pagan religion. Al-quran talks about "islam"/peacemaking (small i, common noun, adjective). Abraham was a "muslim"/peacemaker (small m, common noun, adjective) and not a proper name "Muslim" (capital M, proper noun) follower of a proper name religion "Islam". Those proper name words never even existed in his language.
"Quran alone" is yet another fabrication that is nowhere to be found in al-quran. Al-quran itself doesn't promote "Quran alone"! It talks about "ALLAH ALONE" multiple times, and NEVER "Quran alone". Were Abraham, Noah, Moses and Jesus "Quran alone"?
What do 262 and 569 say? Are they talking about being Quran alone?
262 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whoever of them believes in ALLAH and the last day and does good works; they will have their recompense with their lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor will they grieve.
So yes, the sequence would be going from the fabricated hadith based pagan religion by the proper name of "Islam", to a fabrication by the name of "Quran alone", to the truth of "islam"/peacemaking and "ALLAH ALONE". So in this sense, I agree with the topic of this thread which mentions the proper name fabricated pagan religion "Islam".
It is ESSENTIAL for one's spiritual health to leave the fabricated pagan religion of "Islam" completely ASAP and enter "islam"/peacemaking, and be ALLAH ALONE.
770 They said "Have you come to us to serve ALLAH ALONE and abandon what our fathers had served? Bring us what you promise if you are of the truthful ones!"
1746 And we place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and a deafness in their ears. And if you mention your LORD ALONE in the qur'an, they run away turning their backs in aversion.
3945 And when ALLAH ALONE is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned besides him, they rejoice!
4012 This is because when ALLAH ALONE was mentioned, you rejected, but when partners were set up with him, you believed. Therefore, the judgment is for allah, the most high, the great.
4084 So when they saw our might, they said "We believe in ALLAH ALONE, and we reject all the partners we used to set up!"
604 There has been a good example set for you by Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people "We are innocent from you and what you serve besides allah. We have rejected you, and it appears that there shall be animosity and hatred between us and you until you believe in ALLAH ALONE." ..................
It has not ceased to amaze me that despite al-quran never promoting "Quran alone", and despite al-quran advising ALLAH ALONE multiple times, majority of the forum members over so many years continue to consider themselves "Quran alone" rather than ALLAH ALONE, in complete violation and rejection of al-quran's message!
Peace
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Salaam,
Personally, it is the step to leave organised religion completely. I believe in monotheism, and in the divinity of the Qur'aan. "Labelling" does not matter and I recognise that some Christians, Jews, Yogis, etc, can also be "Muslims" if they believe in one God and strive to do righteous deeds.
I have less focus on practicing rituals, and more on doing humanitarian works (I still practice rituals that do not contradict Qur'aanic teachings, and have wisdom behind it).
I will not call myself "staunch" and "resolute", because I acknowledge that my perception of the world and spirituality will keep evolving as I grow older. But I can say that I feel at peace and fulfilled by following the Qur'aanic teachings.
Wow Bornagain - a really good post!
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Quran alone is just yet another version of Islam religion.
The last step before becoming "unreligious" or "multi religious" (having or identifying oneself to more than one religion) happened once one embrace the full confidence in himself, his own thinking and apply critical thinking towards his own religion, his own thinking and his own belief.
So is being 'multi-religious' how you would describe yourself Jafar?
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Salam,
There are no "steps" to leaving God's system - most of us fall in and out of it for the most part of our lives. We only pray, as the prophets before us did, that we "die as submitters".
As for the arguments and bickering that you may see here...It is human nature to argue even when the knowledge has been attained...
319 The system with God is submission, and those who received the Book did not dispute except after the knowledge came to them out of jealousy between them. And whoever rejects the revelations of God, then God is swift in judgment.
What I have come to learn is that the path to God alone is never easy. You lose friends, become isolated, get shunned by family, are ridiculed for going against the majority, etc.. Add to this cocktail the tests that God will send upon you to test your conviction - and that is when people leave or break or simply revert back to their old ways.
292 Did the people think that they will be left to say "We believe" without being put to the test?
293 We had tested those before them, so that God would distinguish those who are truthful and so that He would know the liars.May we all have the strength and good fortune to die as submitters...
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It has not ceased to amaze me that despite al-quran never promoting "Quran alone", and despite al-quran advising ALLAH ALONE multiple times, majority of the forum members over so many years continue to consider themselves "Quran alone" rather than ALLAH ALONE, in complete violation and rejection of al-quran's message!
A very good point truthseeker11, perhaps it is best to just refer to Allah Alone/God Alone rather than to Qur'an alone - we see it in the names of so many websites.
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i would say rather its the first step of entering islam, although i do agree with you that their are many differing views and opinions, much misguided people, The truth is self evident. The differences dont matter to much, All monotheists who believe in God and the Last day, and Live a righteous life have a chance at redemption, God tells us He will tell us the truth of all that we disputed about.
God created the test, many people may come to a point where they either give up completely or turn to some other religion. Many other people may get stuck at some point following someone elses opinion or blindly following them and refusing to yeild. But a few people will always continue to believe and practise Islam, i truely believe God designed the test to stimulate us and prove who is realy truely devoted.
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I sdo not think people who say Qur'an Alone mean Qur'an instead of God. God is a given, what they mean is that they do not take humans' words together with God's words such as in the Qur'an.
To speak of Qur'an alone as contradicting God alone seems to me nitpicking.
On the other hand God alone for what? Once we start nitpicking we can go very far. No accuracy will be enough.
Salaam
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Peace everyone,
Allah's ayaat/signs are not found ONLY in Quran as per al-quran itself.
4153 We will show them ayaatina/our signs in the horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that your lord is witness over all things?
The signs/ayaat are in the horizons (which includes other books, the universe etc.) and within ourselves (inner compass/conscience 3030) also and not in Quran alone. ALL THOSE VERIFIED SIGNS SHOULD MATCH AND NOT CONTRADICT and that is the yardstick to verify any truth including al-quran itself.
Saying "Quran alone" means allah's signs are found ONLY in Quran which is inventing a lie and it definitely contradicts al-quran itself and also contradicts the divine signs being present in the horizons and within ourselves.
How to figure out which signs are of divine origin? Use the inner compass/conscience (3030), mind/reason (numerous signs), knowledge (1736), other real world evidence (4153). All those signs should match and not contradict for them to be of divine origin. If any sign contradicts with the other known and verified signs, it can be discarded as a lie and a fabrication.
The first step into entering the deen/system of "islam"/peacemaking is actually ALLAH ALONE and not "Quran alone". "Quran alone" is still a step in the wrong direction. Al-quran contains signs of divine origin for our guidance, but they are not the ONLY signs of divine origin.
Peace
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Peace everyone,
I have realized why some people are allergic to the term "ALLAH ALONE" and insist on using "Quran alone"; it is because they think if they do not say "Quran alone" it will open a "back door" to the possibility of hadith being necessary. Actually, no such thing happens. The fabricated hadith can easily be spotted and discarded by using al-quran's suggested methodology of verification of the truth. The fabricated hadith contradict with inner compass/conscience (3030), mind/reason, knowledge (1736), external real world evidence (4153), as well as signs in al-quran.
Peace
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Salam,
There are no "steps" to leaving God's system - most of us fall in and out of it for the most part of our lives. We only pray, as the prophets before us did, that we "die as submitters".
As for the arguments and bickering that you may see here...It is human nature to argue even when the knowledge has been attained...
319 The system with God is submission, and those who received the Book did not dispute except after the knowledge came to them out of jealousy between them. And whoever rejects the revelations of God, then God is swift in judgment.
What I have come to learn is that the path to God alone is never easy. You lose friends, become isolated, get shunned by family, are ridiculed for going against the majority, etc.. Add to this cocktail the tests that God will send upon you to test your conviction - and that is when people leave or break or simply revert back to their old ways.
292 Did the people think that they will be left to say "We believe" without being put to the test?
293 We had tested those before them, so that God would distinguish those who are truthful and so that He would know the liars.May we all have the strength and good fortune to die as submitters...
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Sola scriptura is an approach,
not a sect, let alone a religion!The point is to let G-D's messenger speak for itself.
The Quran is not the property of a 1.X billion of self-proclaimed muslims, nor does it advocate a religion called "islaam" in the first place!
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I sdo not think people who say Qur'an Alone mean Qur'an instead of God. God is a given, what they mean is that they do not take humans' words together with God's words such as in the Qur'an.
To speak of Qur'an alone as contradicting God alone seems to me nitpicking.
On the other hand God alone for what? Once we start nitpicking we can go very far. No accuracy will be enough.
Salaam
Good point huruf, peace.
I have realized why some people are allergic to the term "ALLAH ALONE" and insist on using "Quran alone"; it is because they think if they do not say "Quran alone" it will open a "back door" to the possibility of hadith being necessary. Actually, no such thing happens. The fabricated hadith can easily be spotted and discarded by using al-quran's suggested methodology of verification of the truth. The fabricated hadith contradict with inner compass/conscience (3030), mind/reason, knowledge (1736), external real world evidence (4153), as well as signs in al-quran.
Peace truthseeker11 - in light of this, do you think we can use some hadith as historical context? Also, what about those multitudes of hadith that can be neither verified or negated by using the Qur'an as the yardstick as it were?
Salam,
There are no "steps" to leaving God's system - most of us fall in and out of it for the most part of our lives. We only pray, as the prophets before us did, that we "die as submitters".
As for the arguments and bickering that you may see here...It is human nature to argue even when the knowledge has been attained...
319 The system with God is submission, and those who received the Book did not dispute except after the knowledge came to them out of jealousy between them. And whoever rejects the revelations of God, then God is swift in judgment.
What I have come to learn is that the path to God alone is never easy. You lose friends, become isolated, get shunned by family, are ridiculed for going against the majority, etc.. Add to this cocktail the tests that God will send upon you to test your conviction - and that is when people leave or break or simply revert back to their old ways.
292 Did the people think that they will be left to say "We believe" without being put to the test?
293 We had tested those before them, so that God would distinguish those who are truthful and so that He would know the liars.May we all have the strength and good fortune to die as submitters...
A very good point Layth, peace.
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Peace Osman,
Peace truthseeker11 - in light of this, do you think we can use some hadith as historical context? Also, what about those multitudes of hadith that can be neither verified or negated by using the Qur'an as the yardstick as it were?
When did I claim al-quran is the only yardstick? I have mentioned the other yardsticks also clearly which should be used to verify even al-quran according to al-quran itself. This is the problem here. I explain everything in detail and repeatedly but then 80% of what I say gets completely ignored.
ANY hadith has to be verified by all the yardsticks as the truth before it can be taken as the truth. If none of those yardsticks can verify it as the truth then obviously it cannot be taken as the truth and it is just an unverifiable hearsay.
As far as "belief" in hadith is concerned, your question is answered clearly and directly by the divine signs (7185, 456, 7750).
Peace
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It would be generalization to think that somehow atheism is the last stage before Quran alone.
Do some research on what exMuslims say about why their last stage was Quran alone. They were already in doubt about the entire religion and not about hadiths before they came to Quran. They wanted all the answers which they couldn't find from this book. Some probably chose the path out of greed. So the choice was rather experiment for them. They were not satisfied. Hence, they left. I have also come across a few who preferred to go by what others say about Quranic verses. They were not interested in using their own brain and energy on Quran. When the explanations sounded violent they took the highway while cursing Allah.
I wouldn't worry about it. Think about the class we took in college and then dropped in the middle of the semester because it was too hard to understand. The situation with those who left Islam after being in this Quran alone path is the same. How many people really get a degree in Physics? In my school, only one or two P! Its same here. One has to be truly passionate and interested in learning without letting depression of failure get in the way.
what makes you confident and comfortable in your Qur'an alone ways?
I saw the sign and it opened up my eyes I saw the sign
Life is demanding without understanding
I saw the sign and it opened up my eyes I saw the sign
-Ace of Base
I don't listen to pop, but the lyrics above describe why I love this path. Just wish they were written in present tense. I see the difference very clearly....very very clearly I never saw it when I was a sunni.I sdo not think people who say Qur'an Alone mean Qur'an instead of God. God is a given, what they mean is that they do not take humans' words together with God's words such as in the Qur'an.
I like the sound of Allah or God alone )
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It would be generalization to think that somehow atheism is the last stage before Quran alone.
Do some research on what exMuslims say about why their last stage was Quran alone. They were already in doubt about the entire religion and not about hadiths before they came to Quran. They wanted all the answers which they couldn't find from this book. Some probably chose the path out of greed. So the choice was rather experiment for them. They were not satisfied. Hence, they left. I have also come across a few who preferred to go by what others say about Quranic verses. They were not interested in using their own brain and energy on Quran. When the explanations sounded violent they took the highway while cursing Allah.
I wouldn't worry about it. Think about the class we took in college and then dropped in the middle of the semester because it was too hard to understand. The situation with those who left Islam after being in this Quran alone path is the same. How many people really get a degree in Physics? In my school, only one or two ! Its same here. One has to be truly passionate and interested in learning without letting depression of failure get in the way.
I saw the sign and it opened up my eyes I saw the sign
Life is demanding without understanding
I saw the sign and it opened up my eyes I saw the sign
-Ace of Base
I don't listen to pop, but the lyrics above describe why I love this path. Just wish they were written in present tense. I see the difference very clearly....very very clearly I never saw it when I was a sunni.
I like the sound of Allah or God alone )That is fine, you like. That is understandable and fine. What I do not like is when people cling to this or that expression as a proof of something way beyond what is intended, that is, nitpicking.
Myself I do not feel so much about God alone or Qur'an alone. I think nothing is alone really. God is alone but on the other hand He has created creatures who can speak to Him... Which shows again that that "alone" is a contextual thing, in the context of worshipping or believing in something transcendent beyond our powers or whatever.
As to Qur'an alone bing the last step to leaving islam, the world is full of last steps to leave anything. For some it may be for others may be de opposite.
Salaam
