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  4. is it really shave or shorten your hair in 48:27?

is it really shave or shorten your hair in 48:27?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • WakasW Offline
    WakasW Offline
    Wakas
    wrote on last edited by
    #3

    peace Hafeez,

    Thanks for the info. Independent study leading to converging thoughts is always a good sign.

    Wakas

    All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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    • U Offline
      U Offline
      unknownuser
      wrote on last edited by
      #4

      Peace be upon you,

      Thanks for the clarifications brothers.

      Just to be sure, there is no word in this verse that talks about "hair" right?

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      • M Offline
        M Offline
        marie
        wrote on last edited by
        #5

        Peace all,

        Peace be upon you,

        Thanks for the clarifications brothers.

        Just to be sure, there is no word in this verse that talks about "hair" right?

        Yes you are correct )

        Marie

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        • U Offline
          U Offline
          unknownuser
          wrote on last edited by
          #6

          Peace be upon you Marie,

          Thank you for the clarification. The above new understanding works well with my understandings. Thanks again all for the clarifications.

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          • A Offline
            A Offline
            ayman
            wrote on last edited by
            #7

            Peace brother Hafeez,

            And He it is Who has WITHHELD their hands from you and your hands from them in the midst of Mecca, AFTER He had GRANTED you VICTORY over them (MECCANS)

            Allah in the midst of MECCA withheld the hands of both the believers and the disbelievers AFTER THE BELIEVERS WERE GRANTED VICTORY OVER THE MECCANS. The believers were victorious and ALREADY in MECCA but did not ENTER the SACRED HOUSE why?

            Actually there is ZERO evidence for the existence of a town named Mecca prior to the revelation of the great reading. The current location was renamed to Mecca long after the revelation of the great reading to match the common noun in 4824.

            The common noun "mecca" is listed in classical Arabic dictionaries under either MKK or MK.

            Al-Mo7it lists it under MKK, the meaning given is destruction and wearing down, which is consistent with the context of standoff in 4824. It also lists the meaning of TMKK as an adversary's insistence on something, which is also consistent with the standoff in 4824.

            Lisan Al-3arab lists it under MK and the meaning of MK(T) is given as "destruction" and TMK as "destroy".

            Al-Wasit lists it under MK, the meanings given are (I am trying to give a literal translation) sucking everything out, insistence on revenge from an adversary, and the thing, which is worn down or destroyed.

            Al-Ghani lists it under MKK, the meanings given are sucking, insistence with demands on an adversary.

            Hence 4824 should be translated as follows

            1. And it is He Who has restrained their hands from you and your hands from them in the midst of destruction/wearing down/insistence on the adversary after that He gave you the victory over them. And Allah sees well all that ye do.

            Also, the word "kaaba" is not meaningless so you should also translate it.

            Peace and all best wishes,

            Ayman.

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            • WakasW Offline
              WakasW Offline
              Wakas
              wrote on last edited by
              #8

              http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=48647#48647

              All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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              • WakasW Offline
                WakasW Offline
                Wakas
                wrote on last edited by
                #9

                peace All,

                The traditional interpretations of 4827 are as follows (the words in bold do not appear in the Arabic)

                Yusuf Ali
                ...with minds secure, heads shaved, hair cut short, and without fear...
                Pickthal
                ...secure, (having your hair) shaven and cut, not fearing...
                Shakir
                ...in security, (some) having their heads shaved and (others) having their hair cut, you shall not fear...
                Khalifa
                ...perfectly secure, and you will cut your hair or shorten it (as you fulfill the pilgrimage rituals) there...

                Blatant distortion. Not to mention no alternative for those who are bald! lol

                A look at the PM translation reveals a flaw in the translated reasoning

                ...secure, with your heads shaven and shortened...

                According to the above, the object of the words 'shaven' & 'shortened' is 'heads', but it is obvious one cannot shorten the head, nor or are they commanded to cut the head as is used by some translators, thus an alternative understanding must be sought.

                A look at the literal translation of M&S Ahmed reveals the answer (as well as the distortion)

                ...safe/secure, shaving/removing/pulling (hair) (from) your heads, and doing the utmost/shortening, do not fear...

                When I translated 2196 I realised that it means removing/relieve. If this is coupled with the context of 4827 in which the surrounding words are describing a feeling, it becomes highly likely HLQ is also referring to a feeling. Also, in 2196 RSA (head) is referring to the non-physical 'head', i.e. the mind, because it states 'ailment of the head', and there is no way it is talking about a physical/surface injury to the head, thus like the previous usage in 2196 it is using it as the mind.

                Thus the alternative, and correct translation until proven otherwise would be

                "...secure, with your heads relieved and restrained/relinquished, having no fear..."

                Wakas

                ...And do not be hasty with the reading before its transmission is completed to you, and say "My Lord, increase me in knowledge"

                All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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                • C Offline
                  C Offline
                  Cushan
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #10

                  I'm bumping this because it was linked in another thread.

                  I thought it was worth mentioning that halaq (but spelled with a chet) in Hebrew means smooth or bald or divide. And of course Jews practiced certain purifying shaving rituals.

                  My own opinion, is take your hat off and hang your head, i.e. be humble.

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                  • M Offline
                    M Offline
                    Mazhar
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #11

                    When there is a victory the victors do not ENTER the defeated town with their HEADS SHAVED or HAIR CUT SHORT but they enter the town SECURE, HEAD HIGH and with RESPECT, COURAGE and RESTRAINED (SELF CONTROLLED) and WITHOUT FEAR.

                    Does it mean that when Mecca fell to the believers all believers went to the barbers and either shaved their head or cut their hair short? WHAT FOR?

                    The Islamic history claims that the Muslims entered the KAABA and broke all idols that were inside it when MECCA was conquered, but the Quran says that the Muslims would enter the MASJID AL HARAM, which did not exist at that time. MASJID AL HARAM was constructed many years later after the death of the prophet.

                    Two different things have been admixed.

                    The other is other than this

                    Entering "head high" in a defeated land is negative personality trait. A true Muslim on victory becomes humble and seeks forgiveness from Allah.

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                    • U Offline
                      U Offline
                      unknownuser
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #12

                      God also say "InshaAllah"? o

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                      • M Offline
                        M Offline
                        Mazhar
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #13

                        God also say "InshaAllah"?

                        The shock is because you have made three words into one.

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                        • M Offline
                          M Offline
                          Mazhar
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #14

                          Blatant distortion. Not to mention no alternative for those who are bald! lol

                          Both are taken care off

                          Both are Active Participles of Form II. Baldness is on the scalp and not . Those who are bald would still be .

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                          • M Offline
                            M Offline
                            Mazhar
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #15

                            And moreover it is a common principle that any who suffers from impractibility, the relevant provision of law does not apply to him.

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                            • A Offline
                              A Offline
                              Ashraf
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #16

                              Salamun Alaykum (Peace be upon you) ),

                              Would like to share some understanding over old posting. Recently I got a chance to have 1st ever "umrah" trip in July 2011. While at Mecca & Medina, i kept thinking about many things, a part which is hair cutting rituals.

                              Shaving or cut is a final sequence of sectarian "umrah" ritual.

                              Over there the mutawwif (umrah tour guide) kept reminding us that if you don't cut your hair (which i didn't), you are subjected to a dam-penalty (which i dont care) of a sheep coz you didn't conclude the final ritual.

                              The mutawwif also reminding us not to be approached by roadside barbers after safa-marwa sequence of whom might be charging excessively (just because they know people are scared for penalty for not cutting hairs, so they are ready with scissors or shavers to make some extra money).

                              WELL APPEARED AT THE GATHERING (Trim yourself before you appear)

                              Back home, i kept pondering verse 4827 and 2196 where the "muhalliq" and "tahliq" appears respectively.

                              In my understanding, 4827 is where prophet was foretold the future event, where there will come a time when they shall walk freely into the restricted residential basecamp (kaabah al-bait al-haram).

                              Allah describe vividly, that during that time, the place is already secured (no more war) and their physical appearance while approaching the place (prophet & muslims) are well mannered in symbolism of well shaven or trimmed/shorterned hair/beard, as normally we would do while attending important meetings or gatherings. You do it upfront (hair cuttings) before you attend the event.

                              We dont leave our hairs unmanaged while attending important gatherings. This shows good mannerism and level of civilisation.

                              CUT 1st BEFORE THE GATHERING

                              So it is about cutting your hair first before you came into a gathering and not doing it at the end of the event. So you a recommended to be a muhalliq (well done) before attending a gathering.

                              Indeed, this is 180 degree in contrast to sectarian "umrah" ritual where hair cut happen at the end of each "umrah".

                              CUTTING IS NOT MANDATORY

                              However the above verses doesnt say it is mandatory to cut, in which sectarian does impose. Non-compliance is subjected to dam-penalty, an another manmade laws
                              (arbab min dunillah)

                              RESTRICTION FROM CUTTINGS

                              In 2196, it is clear that God forbid "cut/shaving/shortened" (wa la tahliqu) until your donation reach the "basecamp'.

                              In my understanding, if you INTENDED to SPONSOR a FEAST (hajj) at the "basecamp", in X restricted month/year, you cannot "cut/shorterned" your top body parts until your intention are fulfilled.

                              In 2196, the donation cannot reach due to the hostility or roadblocks that happened before the basecamps.

                              This is the only penalty that God imposed us to ensure that we stands to our internal pledge, that is to donate/sponsor/organized a feast.

                              Your "unmanaged" top appearance shows that you still owe a duties, viz. unfulfill donation committment.

                              I still remember that the mutawwif ("guide", sorry if translated wrongly), that he is organizing a feast package of Saudi Riyal 300 for a number of pax (i coudnt remember). So if you pay him SR3000 for example you will get 10 feast package which could be attended by X numbers of people.

                              So if you promised yourself to sponsor a feast package, and than you found out that there is a constraint probably either financially or unable to locate the trusted organizers, than you can't shave or make good your top, until it is fulfil.

                              The mutawwif did say that we can TT/Online deposit to his Saudi bank account for sponsoring the feast package that he is organizing. So until we ensure that the donation has reached the organizer or his account for example, only than we "make good" our top appearance.

                              Note
                              This is my personal opinion out of the reflection while attending last "umrah" trip July 2011. May God pardoned me if this is not correct since He know that I am trying to free myself from sectarian understanding. Any suggestion, correction and opinion are welcome.

                              Let me know if FM intended to host a feast package at any suitable basecamp based on quran. group

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                              • WakasW Offline
                                WakasW Offline
                                Wakas
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #17

                                peace Ashraf,

                                I recommend this thread
                                http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9022.msg

                                All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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