People Of THE Book... Which Book?
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I would suggest that you should study about this stuff first before posting things like above.
Moses recieved the Torah. Here is what Wikipedia writes about the OT
Scholars believe much of the Old Testament was written in Mesopotamia. It is believed the Old Testament was composed and compiled between the 12th and the 2nd century BC.
I personally believe that the Psalms as well as Exodus and other books of the Torah or the book of Daniel, etc. are quite good, though and they might be inspired by God. I want to look into that a bit more, though. It is also very possible that the current Torah has been tampered with. The Psalms, for example, seem more authentic, but there are also some good things in the Torah.
You should read the following http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanakh
The New Testament is totally man-made. Here is what Wikipedia writes
The original texts were written by various authors sometime after c. AD 45, in Koine Greek, the lingua franca of the eastern part of the Roman Empire. Although Rylands Papyrus 52 is generally accepted as the earliest extant record of a canonical New Testament, which dates somewhere between 117 AD and 138 AD.
So they are defintely from God, but there is some truth in them, as they are probably related to some of the Prophets somehow.
Hope this info helps,
PeacePeace,
Respectfully.I have been talking to several Christians and whenever i quote anything from OT, they correct me and say why are you referring to the Book that was for The jews, we follow The NT.
When i mention that OT and NT are in ONE Book now, they give me different answers.Peace.
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Peace,
Respectfully.I have been talking to several Christians and whenever i quote anything from OT, they correct me and say why are you referring to the Book that was for The jews, we follow The NT.
When i mention that OT and NT are in ONE Book now, they give me different answers.Peace.
There is a popular missconception that the bible is a book. It is not. The bible (short for bibliography) is a collection of books. The view that the Quran was written by Muhammad (through his scribes) does not equate to the bible. Each "book" of the bible is separate and has no real connection to another book in the bible (unless it was written by the same person). Therefore anyone can accept any part of the bible and reject the rest. any Christian, as defined by the traditional churches, should accept both the old and new testament. But in reality, this does not happen.
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There is a popular missconception that the bible is a book. It is not. The bible (short for bibliography) is a collection of books. The view that the Quran was written by Muhammad (through his scribes) does not equate to the bible. Each "book" of the bible is separate and has no real connection to another book in the bible (unless it was written by the same person). Therefore anyone can accept any part of the bible and reject the rest. any Christian, as defined by the traditional churches, should accept both the old and new testament. But in reality, this does not happen.
482 Do they not reflect on the Quran? If it were from any other than God, they would have found in it many contradictions.
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Peace Progressive,
This is clearly not true. Jesus recieved the Injeel. The Quran makes this very clear
546 We followed their teaching with Jesus the son of Mary, authenticating what was present with him of the Torah. We gave him the Injeel, in it is guidance and light, and to authenticate what is present with him of the Torah, and a guidance and lesson for the righteous/aware.
How does this conflict with what I said? I said that Jesus DID receive his own scripture, but this scripture is NOT contained in the Biblical new testament... What's "clearly not true"?
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Peace,
What book are you talking about, and what's the difference between the one in this world and the one mentioned in the Qur'aan? And how does the Torah have 'nothing to do with Jesus'? Wasn't Jesus regarded as a Torah-observant Jew, as were his parents? Jesus lived his entire life according to Torah.
I am saying at-tauraat doesn't equal torah. What's your evidence for this claim? Does the torah, which is about moosa - okay hadeeth of moosa, have anything to do at all with Jesus ??? Provide evidence for 'torah observant jew'. Jesus, nor Moses were 'jews'.
Yes, jesus lived his life accord to At-tauraat (not the so called torah).
The Qur'aan confirms the fact that the Jews received the Torah on Mount Sinai, and this was passed to them from Moses... There's no contradiction in saying that Jesus received the Torah. The book was part of the Jewish covenant, and ALL Jews who succeeded Moses received the Torah, as in they were taught it and they lived according to it's guidance. The only reason Muhammad didn't receive the Torah in the same manner is because HE WASN'T A JEW. The Torah was Allah's covenant with the descendants of Israel, not the Gentiles...
Peace,
Ahmad
Evidence? I've seen every single phrase with 'mount sinai', and none of the contains 'at-tauraat'. Can you point it out, please?
Bani israel, not jews. Bani israel are descendants of Noah (173). Was Noah jewish? Even jews don't believe this.
Again, where is it mentioned that Moses received the torah??? Actually answer the question, instead of dodging it.
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Peace The Joker,
Are you kidding me, guy?! ) The Qur'aan says
And if you are in doubt concerning what is revealed to you from your Lord, then question those who read the scripture before you... (1094)
Here, Allah mentions the people of the book (i.e. "yahuud"/Jews and "nasara"/Nazarenes) to be questioned, so there will be no doubt concerning what He revealed to Muhammad. Would this make sense if the previous scriptures were wrong, forged, or fabricated?! The previous scriptures, namely the Torah, says the guidance was revealed to the descendants of Israel at the Mount Sinai... So, you're saying the Torah is wrong? Moses didn't even reveal it to the people, even though the Torah explicitly says that he did?
Jesus, nor Moses were 'jews'.
Is this a joke? Please stop the foolishness, buddy. The title "Jew" is synonymous with "Israelite", especially in today's terminology... So, you're saying that neither Moses nor Jesus were descendants of Jacob?
Bani israel are descendants of Noah (173). Was Noah jewish? Even jews don't believe this.
) Okay, guy, if you say so... Your understanding is completely twisted when it comes to the scriptures. The Arabic word "baani" means SONS. Therefore, "baani Israel" literally means sons of Israel. If it was only speaking of the sons of Noah, it would say "baani Nuh". The Jews are descendants of Jacob, who was called Israel, according to the Torah, who was the son of Isaac, who was the son of Abraham. Since Abraham was a descendant of Noah, then yes, the Jews are also descendants of Noah. But so are the Arabs, the Canaanites, the Egyptians, the Kushites, and a host of other nations... Of course Noah wasn't Jewish, simply because he came BEFORE Jacob. Abraham wasn't a Jew either, because he also came before Jacob. This doesn't mean the Jews aren't their descendants, since Jacob is a descendant of both of these men...
Again, where is it mentioned that Moses received the torah??? Actually answer the question, instead of dodging it.
When did I "dodge" any of your questions?? -\ The Torah itself says that Moses was given it, and he passed it to the people... The Qur'aan says that Moses received "al furqaan"/the criterion. The criterion is contained within the Torah, since the Torah teaches it's followers the commandments of God. If you have any doubt concerning what is revealed in the Qur'aan, then consult the Torah and the studiers of it (1094).
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The Book is the teachings given to Moses. It is now lost and the Quran is the Arabic translation of it.
Thats why the people who have knowledge of the Book will believe in this Quran.
That what the Quran say anyway.
I'm lost on this idea, at least I think so anyway... You're saying that Moses was given the exact same book that Muhammad was given (i.e. the Qur'aan), just in a different language?
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I'm lost on this idea, at least I think so anyway... ,
Well I don't believe the Bible is corrupted because the Quran is a universal Message fitting to all generations, and the quran make reference to the torah and injil when it forwards a suggestion to any who doubts the Quran to ask the people(jews and Nazerenes) who read the previous books i.e the torah and injil. so the claim that the bible is corrupted will invalidate this the verses of the quran that refer us to the bible in this contemporary world.
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Well I don't believe the Bible is corrupted because the Quran is a universal Message fitting to all generations, and the quran make reference to the torah and injil when it forwards a suggestion to any who doubts the Quran to ask the people(jews and Nazerenes) who read the previous books i.e the torah and injil. so the claim that the bible is corrupted will invalidate this the verses of the quran that refer us to the bible in this contemporary world.
In your personal line, the verse states that we believe in what is sent Abraham?! Where is it ?
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Peace Justice,
Well I don't believe the Bible is corrupted because the Quran is a universal Message fitting to all generations, and the quran make reference to the torah and injil when it forwards a suggestion to any who doubts the Quran to ask the people(jews and Nazerenes) who read the previous books i.e the torah and injil. so the claim that the bible is corrupted will invalidate this the verses of the quran that refer us to the bible in this contemporary world.
It depends on what "bible" you're talking about... The modern King James Version is severely mistranslated and misinterpreted, in many places intentionally, all in an effort to justify the divinity and kingship of Jesus. Other verses are mistranslated to support the idea that he was "sacrificed" for the sins of humanity, that he was born of a virgin, and that he did all types of "miraculous" works. Plus, the Biblical new testament seems to be corrupted, and the 4 gospels are almost entirely fabricated, based on the ancient myths of Roman and Greek gods...
Personally, I believe in the preservation of the Torah, and I think most of the Tanakh has been preserved as well. The Hebrew Bible that Jews study today is the same scripture that they've been studying for centuries. In order to find the "Injeel"/Evangel, I think we'll have to look through other writings of Jesus and his disciples, such as the Gospel of the Nazarenes. Many muslims today also believe in the truths of the Gospel of Barnabas, but I think this document is fabricated too, and most scholars and archaeologists agree...
The easiest way, in my opinion, to know the message that Jesus preached is to study the Torah. Since Jesus was a Jew, a child of Israel, then he was knowledgeable of Torah, and he probably studied it frequently. This is also the message he taught, mostly based on the doctrines expounded upon by Rabbi Hillel, who lived before and during Jesus' lifetime. Jesus was most likely a student in this Pharisaical school of thought. So, if we study the Torah and the unadulterated ideas of Pharisaical Judaism, then we should have the message of Jesus...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Hey Ahmad,
How does this conflict with what I said? I said that Jesus DID receive his own scripture, but this scripture is NOT contained in the Biblical new testament... What's "clearly not true"?
Why would Jesus preach anything that was not inspired to him? Did Muhammad preach the Torah?
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And if you are in doubt concerning what is revealed to you from your Lord, then question those who read the scripture before you... (1094)
This verse is very interesting - again, it is talking about THE BOOK (SINGULAR). What is THE book? Why is it in singular form?
I read something about there being one book in heaven with God and that book is composed of the Quran, the Injil, etc. - is this just a Hadithis myth?
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Peace Progressive,
Why would Jesus preach anything that was not inspired to him? Did Muhammad preach the Torah?
Jesus, as a Jew, was taught the Torah as a child, and he continued to study it as an adult. So, I don't understand your question. Jesus WAS given the Torah, not just the Evangel...
And He (Allah) teaches him (Jesus) the book and the wisdom, and the Torah and the Evangel. (34
If Jesus was teaching a group of Pharisaic Jews, then why wouldn't he teach from the Torah, the holy book of Israel? And yes, Muhammad did preach Torah, FOR THE JEWS. That's why he's never recorded as telling the Jewish people to abandon the Torah, because they were STILL required to uphold it. He never told the Nazarenes to abandon the Evangel, because they were STILL required to uphold it. The only people he instructed to follow the guidance of the Qur'aan, without the instruction of any other book (Qur'aan ALONE) were those who hadn't previously received a scripture from Allah. These people became known as "al saabiuun"/the converts, and they're mentioned separately from the Jews and the Nazarenes...
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This verse is very interesting - again, it is talking about THE BOOK (SINGULAR). What is THE book? Why is it in singular form?
I read something about there being one book in heaven with God and that book is composed of the Quran, the Injil, etc. - is this just a Hadithis myth?
I think it's just a myth. There's a Jewish narrative that says that the Torah was created 2000 years before the creation of the heavens and the earth, and when Allah spoke to the people on Sinai, He simply sent the book down to the people. As you know, most of the hadiyths come from ancient Jewish and Christian ideas and myths, and they spread to the Arabs...
Personally, I think the book ("al kitaab" is the Torah, since this is the book that both the Jews and the Nazarenes were required to uphold... Here's something to consider. The Qur'aan frequently refers to "the book and the wisdom", and this is the same concept relayed in Rabbinical Judaism. They say that "the book" is the written Torah, and "the wisdom" is the oral Torah. So, in this effect, both Jews and Nazarenes, and even Christians, are followers of "the book", but they don't all follow "the wisdom", since most Nazarenes and Christians don't believe in the trueness of the oral law, only Jews do... This is just a hypothesis, and it's based on the practical teachings of Rabbinical Judaism. It doesn't necessarily make it true, and it doesn't even mean this is what I personally believe...
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Peace Progressive,
Jesus, as a Jew, was taught the Torah as a child, and he continued to study it as an adult. So, I don't understand your question. Jesus WAS given the Torah, not just the Evangel...
And He (Allah) teaches him (Jesus) the book and the wisdom, and the Torah and the Evangel. (34
OK, you were right.
If Jesus was teaching a group of Pharisaic Jews, then why wouldn't he teach from the Torah, the holy book of Israel? And yes, Muhammad did preach Torah, FOR THE JEWS. That's why he's never recorded as telling the Jewish people to abandon the Torah, because they were STILL required to uphold it. He never told the Nazarenes to abandon the Evangel, because they were STILL required to uphold it. The only people he instructed to follow the guidance of the Qur'aan, without the instruction of any other book (Qur'aan ALONE) were those who hadn't previously received a scripture from Allah. These people became known as "al saabiuun"/the converts, and they're mentioned separately from the Jews and the Nazarenes...
Evidence for Muhammad telling the Jews to uphold the Torah?
241 Acknowledge what I have sent down, authenticating what is already with you, and do not be the first to reject it! Moreover, do not purchase with My signs a cheap gain; and of Me you shall be conscientious.
247 O Children of Israel, remember My blessings that I had blessed you with, and that I had preferred you to all the worlds!
515 People of the book, Our messenger has come to you to proclaim for you much of what you were hiding from the book, and to ignore over much. A light has come to you from God and a clarifying book.
565 If the people of the book only would have acknowledged and been aware, We would have cancelled for them their sins and admitted them to gardens of paradise.
566 If they had upheld the Torah, the Injeel, and what was sent down to them from their Lord, they would have been rewarded from above them and below their feet. From among them is a pious nation, but many of them commit evil.
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I think it's just a myth. There's a Jewish narrative that says that the Torah was created 2000 years before the creation of the heavens and the earth, and when Allah spoke to the people on Sinai, He simply sent the book down to the people. As you know, most of the hadiyths come from ancient Jewish and Christian ideas and myths, and they spread to the Arabs...
I dont think this is right.
Look at the following
566 If they had upheld the Torah, the Injeel, and what was sent down to them from their Lord, they would have been rewarded from above them and below their feet. From among them is a pious nation, but many of them commit evil.
568 Say, "O people of the book, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Injeel and what was sent down to you from your Lord." For many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and rejection. So do not feel sorry for the ingrates.