2:238 - evidence FOR/AGAINST a 'middle' prayer
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Peace herbman,
There are many problems with your understanding which create serious issues.
- "Guard/protect the salawaat" includes ALL the salaats so then mentioning a separate salaat in 2238 after that phrase would be redundant. This kind of redundancy would imply a poor grasp of language and communication. God knows how to communicate intelligently and has a perfect grasp of language.
Let me give you an example. If I am a teacher and I tell a student "read your books" it would mean and include all the books. I don't have to say "read your books and the English Literature book" because that will be redundant and will be poor language and if the student is smart, he/she will not want me as a teacher anymore -)
Salawaat means ALL the salaats in one's lifetime, and then saying al-salaat al-wusta cannot mean a separate salaat but that God wants us to protect/guard ALL the salaats in our lifetime and to perform each of those salaats in the best/balanced manner.
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The wording used in 2238 is AL-salaat AL-wusta, with two AL's, and NOT salaat al-wusta. That makes a big difference. The dawn and dusk salaats are mentioned in the form "salaat al-fajr" and "salaat al-isha" which grammatically indicate specificity. The wording AL-salaat AL-wusta grammatically indicates general salaat and not a specific salaat and is a descriptive term for salaat in general, applicable to all the salaats. This reinforces that it is not a specific middle salaat but describes the characteristic of salaat in general, i.e. best/balanced salaat.
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The derivatives of the root WST almost always mean "best/balanced" in the qur'aan and not "middle". Do your own research on all the occurrences.
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If al-wusta in 2238 means "middle" then is it middle of daytime or middle of night? Because of that now we have two sects in the God alone people. One sect claims it is middle of daytime, and the other sect claims it is middle of night. Did God forget to address this critical issue?
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In USA business is ROUTINELY done until 10 pm so "leave off business" does not necessarily mean daytime. "Yawm" does not mean only daytime but refers to the whole 24 hour day or a time period as used in the qur'aan. The word for daytime is "nahaar" as used in the qur'aan.
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It seems very odd that God would mention "yawm al-jum'a" and then not give us any clue as to when that day is. In my understanding He does tell us which day is the day of gathering/assembly and that is when all mankind gathers/assembles for hajj. Please see the link referenced by Wakas for further details.
Peace
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@ 2 salaat theorists
when would the Friday congregational prayer be? We know that 629 says "O you who belive! when the call is made for the prayer on Friday, then hasten to the remembrance of Allah and leace off trading; that is better for you, if you only knew."
This shows us that it is during the middle of the day, and not at dawn or dusk. So how do you explain this? when would it be? the logical answer is at midday, since that is when business/trading is giong on. (dont tell me that it is at dawn or dusk). If you still say that, then think about the Arabs in teh time of Muhammad...i'm sure that they did not trade in the night since they didnt have enough light, etc.
Besides, some people mistranslate 2238. It clearly says "As-Salat al-Wusta". "As" or "Al" do not mean "is" they mean "the". They are pronouns, not verbs! Think about it.
Peace
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Thanks Wakas,
But this verse still refer to a prayer occuring during the day. Because business is something you do at daylight.
peace
bravo
I, to my own surprise am starting to thing that the 2 salat theory is correct. HOWEVER, there is definitely a noon congregational prayer on Fridays (day of congregation - yam al juma).
An indication for 2 contact prayers on normal days is that they are called "salah AL fajr" and "salah AL isha", which only have one "al", unlike "AL salah AL wusta".
Please note that the third salah which only has one "al" is "salah AL juma", which clearly indicates that it is an extra/another salat to be done during the day on the day of congregation (Friday).
Another indication that there might only be 2 salah per day is that they are carried out in the mandated middle tone by Hadithists, unlike the noon prayers, for example. Also note that the congregational salah is carried out in the middle tone.
Peace
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What do we do after the prayers? Go threw the land and seek Gods bounty...There is no quranic proof that the friday prayers or the daily prayers are held at noon time. The Quran tells us what time the prayers are observed. The friday prayers will also be held fridays during the dawn and eve prayer times. And the prayers cannot be observed prior to their appointed times. They are ordained at certain times.
Even using your own claim, you would leave buisness and make it to the evening prayer. Not to say that buisness doesnt take place at night....
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"The middle prayer" could be the right translation.
Lets look at 2238 and 2239..
"Preserve the contact prayers, and the sala al wusta, and stand devoutly for God.
"But if you are in a state of worry (and can therefore not stand), then you may do so (praying) while walking or riding. If you become secure, then remember God as He has taught you what you did not know." (2239)Any comments on this way of understanding the verses?
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salaat does not mean / cannot mean 'prayers', If it meant prayers, this is how 2/157 would be rendered
To these will be prayers from their Lord and a mercy, they are the guided ones.
Either-or fallacy.
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Good point, how about this then... Does prayers fit into 2/157, does the God pray to us?
Absolutely not. It could mean 'bonding' in that verse. Others argue that it could mean 'blessings'.
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peace,
In 2157 it is not a verb (e.g. bonding), it is a plural of the noun "salat". It literally means "To these will be multiple going/turning towards (in a close/positive manner) from their Lord and a mercy, they are the guided ones." For better readability, one can choose "bonds", or as some have rendered "blessings".
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salaat does not mean / cannot mean 'prayers', If it meant prayers, this is how 2/157 would be rendered
To these will be prayers from their Lord and a mercy, they are the guided ones.
The prayers are a difficult thing, except for those who paitient. Thus in that verse God is basically saying these people will keep up many prayers. To my understanding.
Abraham said" Lord, let me be one who keep the prayers." Thus you cannot will anything except if God also wills.
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what's your criteria for determining where it means 'prayers' and where it means 'blessings'?
Agreed with bonding.Context and the form of the word (ie. singular, plural, verb form, etc.)
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peace,
In 2157 it is not a verb (e.g. bonding), it is a plural of the noun "salat". It literally means "To these will be multiple going/turning towards (in a close/positive manner) from their Lord and a mercy, they are the guided ones." For better readability, one can choose "bonds", or as some have rendered "blessings".
Right, thanks. Should've read it carefully, before commenting.
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salaat does not mean / cannot mean 'prayers', If it meant prayers, this is how 2/157 would be rendered
To these will be prayers from their Lord and a mercy, they are the guided ones.
Greeting of peace to all the forum and readers.
I have a suggestion.
Salaat maybe = "Devotions" ?
It makes sense then. Cos when we meditate, pray, worship, we are "devoting" (devoting our Worship to God Alone)... and look at what comes just a few verses behind 2157, in 2152
AQ 2152 (Asad) so remember Me, and I shall remember you; and be grateful unto Me, and deny Me not.
I'm suggesting God doesn't "pray" to us, but he is devoted to us, if we are devoted to him.
2157 would then be " It is they upon whom their Sustainer's devotions are bestowed, and it is they, they who are on the right path!"
Peace to all and May Allah S.w.t bless and guide us aright.
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Greeting of peace to all the forum and readers.
I have a suggestion.
Salaat maybe = "Devotions" ?
It makes sense then. Cos when we meditate, pray, worship, we are "devoting" (devoting our Worship to God Alone)... and look at what comes just a few verses behind 2157, in 2152
AQ 2152 (Asad) so remember Me, and I shall remember you; and be grateful unto Me, and deny Me not.
I'm suggesting God doesn't "pray" to us, but he is devoted to us, if we are devoted to him.
2157 would then be " It is they upon whom their Sustainer's devotions are bestowed, and it is they, they who are on the right path!"
Peace to all and May Allah S.w.t bless and guide us aright.
It doesnt have to mean the same thing in all verses...
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It doesnt have to mean the same thing in all verses...
Peace Progressive 1993
So the same word can mean different things in different verses? Do you have an example please, so I can try to get my head round this?
I was under the impression that it was some kind of method, using the Qur'an to explain the Qur'an, by finding the same word in other verses and comparing them to find a common meaning. Like the (beat/strike) example for beating wives as a last resort when the woman is suspected of (rebelling or being unfaithful?). It is usually always mistranslated and then people think it's ok to beat their wives...
Using the methodology of using the word "daraba" and finding out what other possible meanings it has elsewhere in the Qur'an you end up finding out the "daraba"ing the wives is more like kicking them out of the house rather than beating them up...
That's what I had understood anyway...
If the word indeed does not always have to mean the same thing, as you suggest, how can we check and make sure we are not just guessing what the word means?
Looking forward to hearing back from you, inshallah, and thanks
Peace
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Peace Progressive 1993
So the same word can mean different things in different verses? Do you have an example please, so I can try to get my head round this?
I was under the impression that it was some kind of method, using the Qur'an to explain the Qur'an, by finding the same word in other verses and comparing them to find a common meaning. Like the (beat/strike) example for beating wives as a last resort when the woman is suspected of (rebelling or being unfaithful?). It is usually always mistranslated and then people think it's ok to beat their wives...
Using the methodology of using the word "daraba" and finding out what other possible meanings it has elsewhere in the Qur'an you end up finding out the "daraba"ing the wives is more like kicking them out of the house rather than beating them up...
That's what I had understood anyway...
If the word indeed does not always have to mean the same thing, as you suggest, how can we check and make sure we are not just guessing what the word means?
Looking forward to hearing back from you, inshallah, and thanks
Peace
1778 You shall hold the contact prayer/bond (salat)
at the setting of the sun, until the darkness of the night; and the Quran at dawn, the Quran at dawn has been witnessed.2157 To these will be bonding/bonds (salawat) from their Lord and mercy; they are the guided ones.
Do you not see a difference here? In the first verse, we are to do it, in the second verse, God is doing it to us. Furthermore, in the first verse, it is singular, and in the second verse it is in the plural form. Also, it could mean the same thing (bond/bonding/bonds).
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Peace, people!
In 3017 and 3018
3017 (Asad) EXTOL, then, God?s limitless glory when you enter upon the evening hours, and when you rise at morn;
3018 (Asad) and unto Him is due all praise in the heavens and on earth, in the afternoon as well, and when you enter upon the hour of noon.that's 4 times, right?
Peace
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Peace, people!
In 3017 and 3018
3017 (Asad) EXTOL, then, Gods limitless glory when you enter upon the evening hours, and when you rise at morn;
3018 (Asad) and unto Him is due all praise in the heavens and on earth, in the afternoon as well, and when you enter upon the hour of noon.that's 4 times, right?
Peace
Do you mean salat? If so, where do you see that word in the above verse?
