Quran only?
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I read the section on Hikmah, he is not providing anything whatsover to disclaim that hikma is knowledge in addition to the Qruan. he quotes an ayat that is supposed to support this but see below for yusuf ali's version
Yusuf alis version
39. These are among the (precepts of) wisdom, which thy Lord has revealed to thee. Take not, with Allah, another object of worship, lest thou shouldst be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected.
his version
"This is of what your Sustainer has revealed to you of ?Hikmah? (wisdom), and do not associate any other god with Allah lest you should be thrown into hell, blamed, cast away." (1739)IF Allah intended for us to know that the wisdom that Muhamad (PBUH) is bringing is the Quran itself and only the Quran, why didnt the Quran say the Quran and its wisdom as opposed the quran and the wisdom(hikmah)??
Br. BCKnowledge
I think I might be able to clarify this a bit.
I'm sure you're familiar with the names of Allah in the Quran. We see a couple of them in 13 (Ar-Rahman, Ar-Raheem). These names define Allah's attributes, "The All-Compassionate", "The All-Merciful". I believe you will agree to that.
Similar, The Quran has different names which are mentioned in the Book, which indicate its attributes. It's been called Furqan (The Criterion) and Quran (The Reading) among other things. Hikmah (The Wisdom) is simply another attribute of the Quran, which alludes to its importance to the believers.
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becarefull- knowledge,
If you did in fact read all of the section on what is "hikma", you will have seen that "hikma" is an attribute of al-kitab, amongst other points made. But lets go to your apparent objection you have by quoting Yusuf Ali's translation. Please be aware Yusuf Ali is NOT the authority on Al Quran, and his translation is not perfect, like all translations. So, let me clarify for you
dhlika = singular masculine demonstrative pronoun
The above means it can only mean "this" or "that" NOT "these" so Yusuf Ali is 100% incorrect. So, let's translate it correctly
"This/that is of what your Sustainer has revealed to you of hikmah/wisdom...
It obviously refers to the ayatin/signs before this point. As you can see it clearly refutes your position.
Of course, that does not mean all possible hikma/wisdom is in Al Quran, as this claim would be nonsensical, hence the partitive "min" is used.
I recommend reading up on the history of hadith and sunna, e.g.
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Rethinking_Tradition_Modern_Islamic_Thought.htm -
Peace
Hikma is a very vast term which has been used in the Quran for the Quran itself ,for the Bible and Torah as well as for knowledge and science Practical and theoretical.- ( 1 / 686)
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As per Lane Lexicon
Knowledge or science ,knowledge of true nature of things and action according to the requirements thereof, and therefore it is divided into intellectual and practical or a state or quality ,of the intellectual faculty.
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume2/00000253.pdf
Regards
- ( 1 / 686)
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If the doctor doesnt explain when, how and how many to take, you might just say I am sick i want this pain to disappear and will take 20 pills ovedose and die.
The cure is not just the pills but in the instruction, all medicine has toxicollogy studies to see what is a safe level and what has the most effect on a disease, and then doctors who assess you to see what best fits your needs. THey are part of the cure.
as you see from my example of the active ingredient (The pill) in this case the Quran, you need instructions or hikma as the Quran itself stated,to which explains what its teaching, which is the hadith,
you reject hadith, you reject half of the equation of Quran and hikma. you might just get it right but then you might get your self sick. the same applies spiritually if you are only using the Quran and using yourbiased vulnerable mental resource to interpret it vs the 'Hikmah' of Muhamad PBUH to do it for you (the Quran clearly details Muhamad's qualifications to do so).Peace
Maybe the instructions are in with the pills? They usually are. Maybe you open the pills and didn't look hard enough for the intructions, in the excitement of it all.
So you think, "If the instructions are not in with the pills, then I will go looking elsewhere" so you go looking on the internet for the correct dosage and keep getting conflicting information.
By the way, have you ever thought about this statement? "The Qur'an is the authentic Hadith"
Hope this helps
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us aright.
Peace
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Peace
Maybe the instructions are in with the pills? They usually are. Maybe you open the pills and didn't look hard enough for the intructions, in the excitement of it all.
So you think, "If the instructions are not in with the pills, then I will go looking elsewhere" so you go looking on the internet for the correct dosage and keep getting conflicting information.
By the way, have you ever thought about this statement? "The Qur'an is the authentic Hadith"
Hope this helps
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us aright.
Peace
Sorry Quran alone is not enough we need tempt
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By the way, have you ever thought about this statement? "The Qur'an is the authentic Hadith"
I heard this concept in these forums, The Quran is authentic from Allah, the hadith are authentic (most) from Muhamad. If taken as a whole will put you in a certain direction but as some people do picking and choosing can take you anywhere because just like the Quran, the hadith have time, perspective and additional background specifics that need consideration before deciphiring the meanings.
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As per Lane Lexicon
Knowledge or science ,knowledge of true nature of things and action according to the requirements thereof, and therefore it is divided into intellectual and practical or a state or quality ,of the intellectual faculty.
RegardsTo be honest the above definition looks pretty reflective of the prophet's hadiths. 'knowledge of the tru nature of things...divided into intelectual and practical'.
the hadith are exactly that if not more , I have uncovered so much intelectually from hadith into the spiritual world, the material world and especially social settings, and there is alot of inherrent practicality in them.
I will like to restate as I have early on, I am very new and learning this religion and will try to be cautious to not state anything of authoritive nature on a scholarly level about hadiths, but I am amazed with the little that i know from khutbas and readings. THey have a central voice,
the hadiths that I dont understand or feel comfortable with I am patient to get the guidance to their wisdome if they are indeed from the prophet (PBUH) if not to avoid them. -
becarefull- knowledge,
If you did in fact read all of the section on what is "hikma", you will have seen that "hikma" is an attribute of al-kitab, amongst other points made. But lets go to your apparent objection you have by quoting Yusuf Ali's translation. Please be aware Yusuf Ali is NOT the authority on Al Quran, and his translation is not perfect, like all translations. So, let me clarify for you
dhlika = singular masculine demonstrative pronoun
The above means it can only mean "this" or "that" NOT "these" so Yusuf Ali is 100% incorrect. So, let's translate it correctly
"This/that is of what your Sustainer has revealed to you of hikmah/wisdom...
Of course, that does not mean all possible hikma/wisdom is in Al Quran, as this claim would be nonsensical, hence the partitive "min" is used.
I recommend reading up on the history of hadith and sunna, e.g.
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Rethinking_Tradition_Modern_Islamic_Thought.htmI am not an arabic linguist/english scholar to play into various translations, I hope to one day investigate furhter the various translations of the Quran. but lets get 2 more translations.
"This is (part) of that wisdom wherewith thy Lord hath inspired thee (O Muhammad). And set not up with Allah any other god, lest thou be cast into hell, reproved, abandoned"
Piktal
This is (part) of Al-Hikmah (wisdom, good manners and high character) which your Lord has revealed to you (O Muhammad SAW )
Dr MohsinTHis is part of the hikma. the knowledge or whatever definiithion you give to hikma is in the Quran. everything in the hadith as a message is in the quran also. there are rules in the quran there are rules inthe hadith. there are wisdom into things we cant see in the quran same in the hadith. there are practical application type instructions in the quran same in the hadith.
off course there is hikma in the quran but also in hadith as the above ayats state this is of or part of the hikma provided to you ( portion of it, meaning there is more) you guys are only taking this portion and leaving out the remaining hikma provided to Muhamad (PBUH) -
peace becarefull knowledge
i found this as i was reading sura 18 tonight, and i thought of you...
1854 THUS, INDEED, have We given in this Qur'an many facets to every kind of lesson for mankind. However, man is, above all else, always given to contention
apologies for not using capitals, i am feeding my baby, so typing with one hand again!
do you know about this website, where you can compare different translations of the Qur'an and it has a search function too? it might be useful to you. i use it very often. http//www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/
may Allah guide us to the straight path, increasing us with knowledge and patience
peace
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Adding to the list that goes on and on
- Ablution
56 O you who acknowledge, when you rise to attend the contact prayer, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe. If you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you could not find water, then you shall do ablution from clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands. God does not want to make any hardship over you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be appreciative.
Is this how you do your ablution?
Yep
Next point dietary laws
2173 He has only forbidden for you what is already dead, the blood, the meat of pig, and what was dedicated to other than God. Whoever finds himself forced out of need and without disobedience or animosity, there is no sin upon him. God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
Are these your only rules or did you add to God's law, which is, btw, idolatry?
I follow the sunna which is God's law as long it came from muhamad (PBUH) (i did not make it up) in addition i follow the law of the U.S the country i reside in. I am sure you follow more laws that 'God law', if so by your definition you are an idolator.
To answer your question, I follow everything in the above ayat.2174 Surely, those who conceal what God has sent down of the book, and purchase with it a cheap price; they will not eat into their stomachs except the fire, and God will not speak to them on the day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them, and they will have a painful retribution.
I accept 100% of that God has sent down in his book, this is very powerful ayat because some people in todays society are under pressure socially economically and emotionally from being muslims in an non muslim nation, being viewed as potential terrorrist or even not getting the same love as the others (hindus, atheist or even christians/jews).
Some people will conceal of what GOd has sent down to gain acceptance to separate themselve from the bad images (cheap price), but I see these people they are clowned even in this life before the hereafter. -
1854 THUS, INDEED, have We given in this Qur'an many facets to every kind of lesson for mankind. However, man is, above all else, always given to contention
may Allah guide us to the straight path, increasing us with knowledge and patience
peace
Well you know mothers are the original multitaskers, thanks for that website funny that I came accross it earlier and used it 10 minutes ago to post 2 different translations..
As i mentioned, there is no arguing the fact that the quran is full of wisdom, dare imention one hadith that states that wisdom in the quran will not be fully extracted from now until the final days ( not an exact quote).
I just believe that God has provided Muhamad (the prophet) part of this knowledge as in the ayat quted by Wakas
"This/that is of what your Sustainer has revealed to you of hikmah/wisdom...
this is what God has revealed to MUhamad (this aludes to the Quran) in this quran there is what you have quoted above in 1854 but other ayats ( i cant quote readily) Allah describes what he has given to Muhamad specifically (wisdom) to judge and teach -
Sorry Quran alone is not enough we need tempt
cease with the cartoons already!!
and Yep we need the prophet with the book, as someone mentioned earlier, the book didnt come down in wings from the sky. it was delivered to the masses by Muhammed. the most excellent of persons to teach the book of Allah.He is God's choice for this job. other wise you can take different ayats decipher them any kind of way. -
Let me state that you as a group are a product of a certain time in history with specific resources and experiences this will affect your (Hadith free) translations of the Quran than 200 years from now group of Quran onliers, the societies will change the news of the day techology will change their translations and explanations will change to a point that you will be shocked of them. what the .. you say?
look at America 1959 vs America 2009 what is the majority consences on
Race
Marriage
Sex
Science
God
Music...
Freedom ( ie burning flags, attending presidential speeches with rifles..,terrorist hunting permit bumper stickers...) -
...and leaving out the remaining hikma provided to Muhamad (PBUH)
Baseless assumption. Once again, shows you cannot prove the "hikma" discussed in The Quran is the Traditional Hadith.
What else you got?
As I said, hikma/wisdom/judgement is not exclusive to The Quran. I shall leave you with such a wisdom
When reason is against a man, the man will soon be against reason - Hume
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Baseless assumption. Once again, shows you cannot prove the "hikma" discussed in The Quran is the Traditional Hadith.
What else you got?
As I said, hikma/wisdom/judgement is not exclusive to The Quran. I shall leave you with such a wisdom
When reason is against a man, the man will soon be against reason - Hume
Peace Wakas
I love that quote bravo bravo bravo
Peace
Hope
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Peace
I found this
451 Art thou not aware of those who, having been granted their share of the divine writ, believe in baseless mysteries and in the powers of evil, and maintain that those who are bent on denying the truth are more surely guided than those who have attained to faith?
It made my skin shiver
Peace
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Peace
I found this
451 Art thou not aware of those who, having been granted their share of the divine writ, believe in baseless mysteries and in the powers of evil, and maintain that those who are bent on denying the truth are more surely guided than those who have attained to faith?
It made my skin shiver
Peace
handshake
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quote author=Wakas link=topic=9598888.msg218439#msg218439 date=1251323938]
Baseless assumption. Once again, shows you cannot prove the "hikma" discussed in The Quran is the Traditional Hadith.What else you got?
As I said, hikma/wisdom/judgement is not exclusive to The Quran. I shall leave you with such a wisdom
When reason is against a man, the man will soon be against reason - Hume
Thanks for pointing out that hikma/wisdom.. is not exclusive to the quran, you know what, God himself has explained that he provided Muhamed wisdom in addition to the Quran to deliver to the people. If you agree this far, we are done. Hadith are recordings or collections of what he said. This man that has been provided hikma from God but you reject his sayings? or are you denying that he recieved hikma from God other than the Quran?
THere are far too many ayats in the Quran that state the Quran and hikma separately, offcourse the Quran has hikma, and as one person earlier stated the Quran can be called the hikma but as you have stated yourself and others in this forum, there is other hikma which is why Allah states that muhamad instructed in the book and the hikma
"a Messenger of their own , who shall recite unto them Your Verses and instruct them in the Book (this Qur'an) and Al-hikmah""reciting to you Our Verses (the Qur'an) and purifying you, and teaching you the Book (the Qur'an) and the hikmah "
Reasoning without patience is dangerous as i have provided my own favorite saying below, why. because as a human you have limited scope and resources to uncover truths, in patiently you can make hasty decision based on available evidence as are done every day in hospitals, courtrooms and academia that are later disproven because one or two factors were overlooked. One great thinker from the past (socrates) stated to his students, after decades of learning and teaching, 'there is one thing that i know for sure, is that i know nothing' this is a true hikma.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing-Pope
I dedicate this to all those who feal more or as competent/knowledgeable or having hikmah as the prophet God himself has appointed to do the work of explaining his book. -
quote author=Wakas link=topic=9598888.msg218439#msg218439 date=1251323938]
Baseless assumption. Once again, shows you cannot prove the "hikma" discussed in The Quran is the Traditional Hadith.What else you got?
As I said, hikma/wisdom/judgement is not exclusive to The Quran. I shall leave you with such a wisdom
When reason is against a man, the man will soon be against reason - Hume
Thanks for pointing out that hikma/wisdom.. is not exclusive to the quran, you know what, God himself has explained that he provided Muhamed wisdom in addition to the Quran to deliver to the people. If you agree this far, we are done. Hadith are recordings or collections of what he said. This man that has been provided hikma from God but you reject his sayings? or are you denying that he recieved hikma from God other than the Quran?
THere are far too many ayats in the Quran that state the Quran and hikma separately, offcourse the Quran has hikma, and as one person earlier stated the Quran can be called the hikma but as you have stated yourself and others in this forum, there is other hikma which is why Allah states that muhamad instructed in the book and the hikma
"a Messenger of their own , who shall recite unto them Your Verses and instruct them in the Book (this Qur'an) and Al-hikmah""reciting to you Our Verses (the Qur'an) and purifying you, and teaching you the Book (the Qur'an) and the hikmah "
Reasoning without patience is dangerous as i have provided my own favorite saying below, why. because as a human you have limited scope and resources to uncover truths, in patiently you can make hasty decision based on available evidence as are done every day in hospitals, courtrooms and academia that are later disproven because one or two factors were overlooked. One great thinker from the past (socrates) stated to his students, after decades of learning and teaching, 'there is one thing that i know for sure, is that i know nothing' this is a true hikma.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing-Pope
I dedicate this to all those who feal more or as competent/knowledgeable or having hikmah as the prophet God himself has appointed to do the work of explaining his book.Peace BK
Thanks for your contribution, I always thought that the Quran and the hikmah was one thing, e.g. when you recite (study) the Book the Hikmah will result out of your belief and gain of knowledge. I guess there is more to it. I am looking forward to the discussion and inshallah we are guided in the right path.
God bless you all
Hope
