Quran only?
-
peace hope4, all,
I gave my take on "hikma" here if interested
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14594.msg135168#msg135168Wakas No one I dont think from any of the islamic sect is denying that hikma is in the Quran, its the words of Allah, the hadith confirm this by going above and beyong your understanding that the knowledge in the Quran is deep to the extent that writing it would require more ink than the volume of water in the ocean or something to this effect (again rough translation not exact quote, then again you guys can take this and run with it saying all hadiths are not accurate)
-
Salaamun Alaykum
I wish to hear back.
Wassalaam
I have a long weekend, i may not get back to you but inshallah I look forward to discussing your post as soon as I get a chance.
Please take the poll i have posted to see where Quran onliers stand with regards to hadith (i tried to capture as much of the variant positions as possible). -
I have no problem with hadiths that don't contradict the Qur'an.
From appendix 19 of Quran The Final Testament
Which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe? 456
The Quran is not fabricated Hadith; ...It details everything. 12111
Some people uphold vain Hadith to divert others from the path of God 316
The Only Sunna to follow shall be God's Sunna
The Quran informs us that some enemies of the Prophet, described as"human and jinn devils," will fabricate lies and attribute them to the Prophet (6112, 2531).This is precisely what happened after the prophet Muhammad's death; Hadith (oral) and Sunna (actions) were invented and attributed to the Prophet. Hadith and Sunna are satanic innovations because they defy the divine assertions that the Quran is complete, perfect, fully detailed, and shall be the only source of religious guidance (619, 638, 6114 & 456-7), blaspheme against the Prophet and depict him as a vicious tyrant who did not uphold the Quran, and create false doctrines based on superstition, ignorance, and indefensible nonsensical traditions. The prophet Muhammad was enjoined, in very strong words, from issuing any religious teachings besides the Quran (6938-4.
Some Muslims compromise "If a Hadith agrees with the Quran we will accept it, and if it contradicts the Quran, we will reject it!" Such premise proves that these people do not believe God's assertions that the Quran is"complete, perfect and fully detailed." The moment they seek guidance from anything besides the Quran, no matter how "right" it seems, they fall into Satan's trap (see 631). For they have rejected God's word and set up another god besides God (1857).
-
From appendix 19 of Quran The Final Testament
Which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe? 456
The Quran is not fabricated Hadith; ...It details everything. 12111
Some people uphold vain Hadith to divert others from the path of God 316
The Only Sunna to follow shall be God's Sunna
The Quran informs us that some enemies of the Prophet, described as"human and jinn devils," will fabricate lies and attribute them to the Prophet (6112, 2531).This is precisely what happened after the prophet Muhammad's death; Hadith (oral) and Sunna (actions) were invented and attributed to the Prophet. Hadith and Sunna are satanic innovations because they defy the divine assertions that the Quran is complete, perfect, fully detailed, and shall be the only source of religious guidance (619, 638, 6114 & 456-7), blaspheme against the Prophet and depict him as a vicious tyrant who did not uphold the Quran, and create false doctrines based on superstition, ignorance, and indefensible nonsensical traditions. The prophet Muhammad was enjoined, in very strong words, from issuing any religious teachings besides the Quran (6938-4.
Some Muslims compromise "If a Hadith agrees with the Quran we will accept it, and if it contradicts the Quran, we will reject it!" Such premise proves that these people do not believe God's assertions that the Quran is"complete, perfect and fully detailed." The moment they seek guidance from anything besides the Quran, no matter how "right" it seems, they fall into Satan's trap (see 631). For they have rejected God's word and set up another god besides God (1857).
I don't wanna turn this into an RK thread, nor am I trying to bash him, but he's not being consistent.
RK didn't follow his own advice when he based his understanding of 9/128-29 from the hadeeth. Also, hadeeth quranically means a story/tale/narration/fact etc...
When the quran uses the word 'hadeeth' It's not strictly talking about the hadeeth of muhammad, but all hadeeth/stories.
Look at 20/9 for example,
"The hadeeth/story of Moosa", definitely not used in a negative light. As his hadeeth/story is mentioned throughout.
And 4/140,
4140 And it has been sent down to you in the Book, that if you hear the signs/ayats of God being rejected and mocked, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different story/hadeeth; if not, then you are like them. God will gather the hypocrites and the disbelievers in Hell all together.
Rejecting all 'hadeeth' is an impossibility. This would mean we can't read/hear a single story.
-
I don't wanna turn this into an RK thread, nor am I trying to bash him, but he's not being consistent.
RK didn't follow his own advice when he based his understanding of 9/128-29 from the hadeeth. Also, hadeeth quranically means a story/tale/narration/fact etc...
When the quran uses the word 'hadeeth' It's not strictly talking about the hadeeth of muhammad, but all hadeeth/stories.
Look at 20/9 for example,
"The hadeeth/story of Moosa", definitely not used in a negative light. As his hadeeth/story is mentioned throughout.
And 4/140,
4140 And it has been sent down to you in the Book, that if you hear the signs/ayats of God being rejected and mocked, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different story/hadeeth; if not, then you are like them. God will gather the hypocrites and the disbelievers in Hell all together.
Rejecting all 'hadeeth' is an impossibility. This would mean we can't read/hear a single story.
Another example of your amazing way of thinking. Why are you always so nitpicky? How do you know that RK meant only the Hadiths that are attributed to Muhammad? You should inform yourself before making such comments as you have done above. RK condemned following anything beside the Quran as the source of one's religion (Islam).
-
Peace
I have a question for the forum hope you can help. I have a translation of the Quran in Turkish, which divides the Quran into 30 sections called 'Cuz' pronounced 'jooz'. It also has references to sura and ayet numbers. I have been told by members of my family that when you read the Quran you must read a whole Cuz (section) at a time as this is the way. What sect does this come from? Has anyone heard of the Quran being divided into 30 Cuz? Can anyone please explain more? I think my turkish brothers and sisters will probably be more helpful here as this seems to be widely accepted by the turks. Thank you in advance for your help.
God bless
Hope
-
Peace
I have a question for the forum hope you can help. I have a translation of the Quran in Turkish, which divides the Quran into 30 sections called 'Cuz' pronounced 'jooz'. It also has references to sura and ayet numbers. I have been told by members of my family that when you read the Quran you must read a whole Cuz (section) at a time as this is the way. What sect does this come from? Has anyone heard of the Quran being divided into 30 Cuz? Can anyone please explain more? I think my turkish brothers and sisters will probably be more helpful here as this seems to be widely accepted by the turks. Thank you in advance for your help.
God bless
Hope
Strange, never heard of such a thing...
-
Peace
I have a question for the forum hope you can help. I have a translation of the Quran in Turkish, which divides the Quran into 30 sections called 'Cuz' pronounced 'jooz'. It also has references to sura and ayet numbers. I have been told by members of my family that when you read the Quran you must read a whole Cuz (section) at a time as this is the way. What sect does this come from? Has anyone heard of the Quran being divided into 30 Cuz? Can anyone please explain more? I think my turkish brothers and sisters will probably be more helpful here as this seems to be widely accepted by the turks. Thank you in advance for your help.
God bless
Hope
http//islam.about.com/od/quranin30days/The_Quran_in_30_Days.htm
These are called thirty chapters -
Hope4,
i'm not sure why they divide the quran in jooz, but i think its easier for memory purposes. If you open the Quran in arabic you will notice it saying alhizab (ب and a number. it's just a way of grouping into sections. and then it will indicate the aljizo
(ء . i think every hizb is roughly every 10pages, aljizoi'm not sure.. didn't look into the calculations, i'll check it out later. It basically is just a classification of grouping i don't think it has any significance otherwise.For example jizo
30 is also known as jizoaama (the first word of that jizo` is from surah 781 which is aama). that jizo starts from chapter 78 and ends at chapter 114.Why must you read a whole Cuz? I believe that is simply an opinion. The point of reading Quran isn't just mere utterance it is understanding. so why reading a whole jiz`?
All i know is it's just a way of dividing the Quran into segments.
Hope that helps
salam
-
Thank you all for your replies very helpful. I am interested about the history of when this particular addition or method of seperation was actually done, I am guessing but possibly in the Ottoman times. hmm Its interesting that I have not seen such seperation of the Quran from other cultures or maybe I am not aware of any. My family seems to be in the school of thought of reading the Quran because it sounds good to the ear and somehow that sound will help cure them and bless them etc. I am in the school of thought that if you don't understand what you are saying then how can this be a message? Its really strange but causing many frictions in my family at the moment since I have freed my mind of the teaching which I have been exposed to, I am sum what seen almost as an outcast & Oh well I can't be liked by all, what is more important is to be liked and blessed by God pr May He guide us in the right path.
God bless you all.
Hope
PS if anyone else has good links to site with explenations to this method please post it. Thank you peace
-
np
i'm not to sure of the history... I'll ask, i'm assuming before Ottoman time.
I think a lot of muslims seem to think just reciting Quran gives you a spiritual high, that provides you with some sort of mystical blessing. it kinda makes sense why they view us or others as outcasts, because they ain't divulging what their reading they're just reading. oh well, Inshallah God will guide us on the right path )
-
Peace Hope4
I think it is a common practise in Pakistani culture too, dividing it into 30 parts. I got the 30 x juz list off Wikipedia before Ramadan started and am trying to read 1 Juz per day. http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juz%27
It is difficult though, to read 1 juz per day for me, because if I come across an "awkward" sentence in one translation, I will cross reference it with another translation or see what is being said about it on the forums and keep getting sidetracked!
I have a word document (it's 13 pages long) which has exclusively excerpts from the Qur'an in 4 languages, Arabic, Turkish, English and German all together so you can compare word for word. I think you might find it useful. If you want to PM me your email address, I will email it to you, inshAllah (and anyone else who wants it, please pm me too, and then you can upload it to a central place to make it available for all, if you turn it into pdf, I just do not know how to do it! - Maybe Brother Wakas?)
Peace
-
Thank you all for your replies very helpful. I am interested about the history of when this particular addition or method of seperation was actually done, I am guessing but possibly in the Ottoman times. hmm Its interesting that I have not seen such seperation of the Quran from other cultures or maybe I am not aware of any. My family seems to be in the school of thought of reading the Quran because it sounds good to the ear and somehow that sound will help cure them and bless them etc. I am in the school of thought that if you don't understand what you are saying then how can this be a message? Its really strange but causing many frictions in my family at the moment since I have freed my mind of the teaching which I have been exposed to, I am sum what seen almost as an outcast & Oh well I can't be liked by all, what is more important is to be liked and blessed by God pr May He guide us in the right path.
God bless you all.
Hope
PS if anyone else has good links to site with explenations to this method please post it. Thank you peace
That's how my in-laws are (who are Turkish). Very into the "mystical" powers of the Qur'an, to protect you and heal someone who is sick. I keep on asking myself, why are they reciting it when they don't know what they're saying???!!! I try to keep my thoughts to myself for the most part, as they don't understand my viewpoint.
-
That's how my in-laws are (who are Turkish). Very into the "mystical" powers of the Qur'an, to protect you and heal someone who is sick. I keep on asking myself, why are they reciting it when they don't know what they're saying???!!! I try to keep my thoughts to myself for the most part, as they don't understand my viewpoint.
It is like the medicine that we use. We may not understand the chemistry of it's components and its relation to our condition yet we still know that it works, so we use it! Reciting the Quran does have incredible healing powers on both the reciter and the listener. We don't need to understand it to use it. Not to mention that our understanding might sometimes not be correct anyway! peace
-
It is like the medicine that we use. We may not understand the chemistry of it's components and its relation to our condition yet we still know that it works, so we use it! Reciting the Quran does have incredible healing powers on both the reciter and the listener. We don't need to understand it to use it. Not to mention that our understanding might sometimes not be correct anyway! peace
Try learning medicine from books written in other languages other than your own. Can you do it? No. Might sound nice but hey lets not kid ourselves please. You need to understand what is being revealed otherwise others will tell you what to do and you see the mess we are in now!
122 We have sent it down an Arabic recitation, perhaps you will
comprehend.So it was revealed to an arabic speaking people so they could understand what the message was.
God bless, peace
Hope