Hot/"ramadan" Answer

hope4

Peace,

Can some body please tell me how to paste an Microsoft object (image/picture) in a post. I tried the image icon but didn't work. The text pane will not accept the object. If you know, please give me the steps. Sorry for posting this help request on this thread. Thank you in advance.

Peace Guest

Apparently you need to witness it first ;D

Peace

Hope

ayman

Peace Guest,

Can some body please tell me how to paste an Microsoft object (image/picture) in a post. I tried the image icon but didn't work. The text pane will not accept the object. If you know, please give me the steps. Sorry for posting this help request on this thread. Thank you in advance.

Save your image as a GIF or JPEG.
Upload to an image sharing site such as
http//tinypic.com/
Paste the URL in an "img" tag.

I hope this helps (hopefully the picture has the answer to how your Hajj on 8th-13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah is timed using the crescents as per 2189).

Peace,

Ayman

farida

Peace Farida,

You have no choice. You can't answer and you will NEVER answer even if you wanted to. I know it and you know it. So you are screaming mad and making all this noise to divert people's attention from this reality.
Peace,

Ayman

Peace Ayman,

You want me to discuss with you the feast style Hajj on this thread before we fininsh with the subject of the month/moon of fasting pr Dr Ayman can't see further than preserving the wild life and devouring poor animals during Hajj that's all. Oh sorry I forgot about the ten days fast, provided it's not cloudy and you are able to see. You are obviously not blind given that blind people seem to have a sixth sense whereas you, apparently, have no sense.

(and get an exterminator because mice are not good for your family's health).

What about preserving the wild life ??? o

peace

farida

Peace Guest

Apparently you need to witness it first ;D

Peace

Hope

Not witness but "witnessed"(Past Tense) Shahr.

hmm Isn't it silly that often you get an announcement card for the birth of an infant, the teany weany new arrival, not much different from other babies, all babies look the same.
A cleaver idea is that the proud parents should wait till the child reaches full age, burning with desire just like a "full scorching moon"=Shiin-ha-Ra = make it notable/known/manifest/public/infamous
peace

ayman

Peace Farida,

You want me to discuss with you the feast style Hajj on this thread before we fininsh with the subject of the month/moon of fasting pr Dr Ayman can't see further than preserving the wild life and devouring poor animals during Hajj that's all. Oh sorry I forgot about the ten days fast, provided it's not cloudy and you are able to see. You are obviously not blind given that blind people seem to have a sixth sense whereas you, apparently, have no sense.

You give yourself too much credit. I don't want to discuss with you. Everyone with even a little bit of intelligence can see that you hypocritically ignore even your own understanding of 2189 and mindlessly follow your traditional timing on 8th-13th of Dhu-Alhijjah for "hajj" (regardless of what "hajj" means). This is why you will NEVER be able to answer this question

Please tell everyone how your traditional arbitrary calendar uses the crescent moons as per 2189 to time the "hajj".

The reason why you won't dare to answer is that you know (and everyone with any intelligence knows) that your timing for Hajj and your entire calendar is 100% arbitrary and has nothing to do with the crescents in blatant violation of 2189. You are not fooling anyone except those who are so lost like you that they can't understand anything from the god's message anyway.

PS (For the benefit of everyone who uses their god-given brain) The ONLY way that the crescent can be used to time "hajj" is if "hajj" started on the full-moon. There is simply no other way to time a 10 day period using the crescent.

Peace,

Ayman

farida

Peace Farida,

You give yourself too much credit. I don't want to discuss with you. Everyone with even a little bit of intelligence can see that you hypocritically ignore even your own understanding of 2189 and mindlessly follow your traditional timing on 8th-13th of Dhu-Alhijjah for "hajj" (regardless of what "hajj" means). This is why you will NEVER be able to answer this question

Please tell everyone how your traditional arbitrary calendar uses the crescent moons as per 2189 to time the "hajj".

The reason why you won't dare to answer is that you know (and everyone with any intelligence knows) that your timing for Hajj and your entire calendar is 100% arbitrary and has nothing to do with the crescents in blatant violation of 2189. You are not fooling anyone except those who are so lost like you that they can't understand anything from the god's message anyway.

PS (For the benefit of everyone who uses their god-given brain) The ONLY way that the crescent can be used to time "hajj" is if "hajj" started on the full-moon. There is simply no other way to time a 10 day period using the crescent.

Peace,

Ayman

Peace Ayman,

I am sorry; your ranting has gone sooo boring that I don't even bother to read your full reply...you are like a kid who, wanting to have the last world, puts his fingers in his ears and, with eyes closed repeats you you you you you.
You know what; I understand the reason that gave birth to Muslim and Bukhari. It was because of people exactly like you, who were hell bent on destroying the deen, that the need arose for hadiths ... and again a disguised satan, in the form of Abu Huraira, sneaked in there too like in movie the "Devil's advocate".

peace
Ps In fact you have given yourself too much credit in believing that you can replace the Prophet.

unknownuser

Peace Ayman,

Exactly, they permit a year and they forbid a year, permit a year and they forbid a year, and so on. The passage is talking about alternating a practice by doing it one year and not doing it another. This results from not following 936. This means that the problem in 937 results from not counting EXACTLY 12 ?shahr? every year, out of which 4 are inviolable.

Not counting is called skipping which you are doing with your 13th full moon called no-name.

Why did you deliberately not show 2014 and 2015? Because you know that the difference from a year to a year and so on is NEVER a lunar cycle or even close to it. If you were honest then you would have shown the whole data. Also, even if you go a million years, the scorching full-moon will always be in early summer (1-29 days after the summer solstice).

To show your kill season drifts; kill them until June 23 in 2013 then kill them until July 20 in 2016.

Do animal mating habits drift by a lunar month every 3 years?

Likewise all the verses drift in hot moon, as men who swear away their wives start fasting immediately not next full moon.

583-4
And those who declare their wives as forbidden for them as their mothers
so freeing a neck from before that they touch each other
And he who finds not must fast two successive months before they both touch each other
And he who is unable to do so should feed sixty poor

On the other hand, you can NEVER answer the following according to 936-37

You arbitrarily POSTPONE one of your supposed restricted months (Rajab) for six months after the other 3.
Your restricted period moves around all over the year.
You violate 936-37 and 1712 which clearly indicates that the year is solar by counting 12.3 months in a year and not EXACTLY 12.
You will also never be able to answer how your arbitrary so-called Hajj from 8 to 13 of Dhu AlHijjah is timed using the crescents as per 2189.

No, I count exactly 12 and nothing to do with 365.242199 days in a year, impossible to have .242199 days.

Last year you were ranting about full moon illusions and having a big debate and now it's a feast to entice people to spend $2,000 for flight and hotel so they can get a free $5 meal listen to your nonsense. If you want to discuss hajj drop your contradictory hot moon and apologize to people for misleading them and accept the clear evidence of PERF 558 and history.

Please learn to read. I already answered this here

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg218453#msg218453

The Arabic third person masculine pronoun "hu", consistently with the preceding "hu" refers back to "the abstinence"

O you who believe, the abstinence has been decreed for you like it was decreed for those before you, perhaps you may be righteous.
A few days and if any of you is ill or traveling, then a count of different days; and as for those who tolerate it (with difficulty), they may redeem by feeding the needy. And whoever does good voluntarily, then it is better for him. And if you abstain it is better for you if you knew.
A scorching full-moon, is when the great reading was descended; as a guide to the people and a clarification from the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, whoever from you witnessed the full-moon, then he shall abstain it. And whoever is ill or traveling, then a count of different days. The god wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and complete the count, and glorify the god for what he has guided you, that you may be thankful.

It is normal in the Arabic of the great reading that pronouns can refer to something which was mentioned in a prior verse. For example, the pronoun "hiya" at the end of 7431 refers to "saqar" all the way back in 7426.

Wrong both cases?

7431 it (Qur?an) is not except a reminder to the human (illa thikra lilbashari)
690 it (Qur?an) is except a reminder to the creations altogether (illa thikra lilAAalameena)

It is not my problem that you are not intelligent enough to see that the words ?man shahid minkum? (whoever from you witnessed) imply that some from you will not witness. Otherwise, saying ?whoever from you? is completely redundant if everyone just fasts without witnessing anything.

No, you definitely have issues; not intelligent means you are calling me and others that disproved your hot moon fantasy stupid -- so everyone living in cloudy weather, stuck indoors, in prison or without a window to see the full-moon which pops for a moment at all hours and anyone with poor vision or the blind don?t fast.

Ever think it simply means those who make the ?intention? -- faman shahida minkumu alshshahra falyasumhu?

Hope you abandon the Bad Moon http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYnySGM9dQA&

Peace upon you,

N

noble

Salam all,
It will be nice if we kept civil in our exchanges...
Now Ayman you have hit on something good with the solstice idea combined with the moon cycles.
Layth however argues that the month of Ramadan starts at the beginning of the winter Solstice, and he gave an interesting argument too.
You base your argument on breaking down the word Ramadan and rooting out the meaning scorching heat.
Well I have another more obvious meaning (as I come from an area where the arabic was very close to that of the arabs in the time of the prophet in North Africa, where the children of Hassan fled persecution from their "brethren" in Syria and the Jazeerah)-
Ramadan = Ashen (from Ramad = Ash)
like ashes - dull silver, a colour seen of the moon in winter.
So here we go one could combine this with Layth angle and put Ramadan at the end of December, from the winter solstice beginning.
Of course if I were to be cynical I would prefer this, as Ramadan in winter will be easier to fast , but joke aside, we need more evidence than just names.
But I am certain, something will turn up, Allah will get the truth out, but we must keep an open mind, and expect it, and this means stop acting like what we say is written in stone.
God bless.
Nabster

ayman

Peace NunHolidayPseudoEidRex,

Not counting is called skipping which you are doing with your 13th full moon called no-name.

You can only count 12 so you have to skip the 13th. You are also giving me too much credit since it is the god who made the moon cycle, including the full-moon, so it is not "mine".

To show your kill season drifts; kill them until June 23 in 2013 then kill them until July 20 in 2016.

It is ALWAYS in early summer, whether you like it or not. On the other hand, how about your arbitrary nonsense timing which drifts all over the place and even within the same year you have 3 months together and then Rajab floating all by itself? As usual, you can't answer.

Do animal mating habits drift by a lunar month every 3 years?

Animal mating and birthing habits are in line with the seasons. The timing for the restriction will always be from early summer to early fall. On the other hand, no animal gives birth in the summer and gives birth earlier by 11 days every year until about a dozen years later it gives birth in the winter per your nonsense.

Likewise all the verses drift in hot moon, as men who swear away their wives start fasting immediately not next full moon.
583-4
And those who declare their wives as forbidden for them as their mothers
so freeing a neck from before that they touch each other
And he who finds not must fast two successive months before they both touch each other
And he who is unable to do so should feed sixty poor

You are ignorantly mistranslating. The word "siyam" is a noun not a verb.

583-4
And those who declare their wives as forbidden for them as their mothers
so freeing a neck from before that they touch each other
And he who finds not must do the abstinence two successive full-moons before they both touch each other
And he who is unable to do so should feed sixty poor

No, I count exactly 12 and nothing to do with 365.242199 days in a year, impossible to have .242199 days.

No you count 12.3 in a 1712 solar year. As for the rest of your nonsense you are clearly lost and thus you can't answer

You arbitrarily POSTPONE one of your supposed restricted months (Rajab) for six months after the other 3.
Your restricted period moves around all over the year.
You will also never be able to answer how your arbitrary so-called Hajj from 8 to 13 of Dhu AlHijjah is timed using the crescents as per 2189.

You skip these facts because you know that your timing is nonsensical and arbitrary and you have no answer.

Last year you were ranting about full moon illusions and having a big debate and now it's a feast to entice people to spend $2,000 for flight and hotel so they can get a free $5 meal listen to your nonsense. If you want to discuss hajj drop your contradictory hot moon and apologize to people for misleading them and accept the clear evidence of PERF 558 and history.

You can't even read PERF 558. Please show where the word "hijri" occurs in PERF 558.

As for spending $2,000 for flight and hotel you don't need to spend that to go to a harvest feast where you witness benefits and remember the god on livestock and eat from it and feed the poor. Remember that the "house" as per 2226 is any place where no partners are set with the god and not the pagan circus in Mecca. As for nonsense, say this to yourself when you spend your $2,000 for flight and hotel so that you can dress in a towel and kiss and fondle a worthless stone set in a vagina-shaped enclosure and mindlessly spin around a worthless cube to satisfy your pagan fetishes.

Wrong both cases?
7431 it (Qur?an) is not except a reminder to the human (illa thikra lilbashari)
690 it (Qur?an) is except a reminder to the creations altogether (illa thikra lilAAalameena)

Go learn Arabic and more importantly logic. The word "quran" is masculine while " " in 7431 is feminine (referring to the feminine "saqar&quot while in 690 " " is masculine referring to the "quran". You are in way over your head and this entire discussion is clearly beyond your intellectual capacity if you can't even grasp those basic concepts. You are sounding more and more like ignorant 19ers who also confuse the feminine " " (on it) in 7430 as talking about the masculine "quran" and not the feminine "saqar". (not surprising since they too believe and blindly follow your manmade arbitrary traditional calendar by the way and they even made a Code for it as Progressive1993 can show you http//www.islamrevolution.org/thenightofdestiny.htm ).

No, you definitely have issues; not intelligent means you are calling me and others that disproved your hot moon fantasy stupid -- so everyone living in cloudy weather, stuck indoors, in prison or without a window to see the full-moon which pops for a moment at all hours and anyone with poor vision or the blind don?t fast.
Ever think it simply means those who make the ?intention? -- faman shahida minkumu alshshahra falyasumhu?
Hope you abandon the Bad Moon http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYnySGM9dQA&

You are dreaming up your own scripture because 2185 doesn't say "those who make the intention". Instead of wasting your energy in dreaming up excuses for the 100% manmade and arbitrary traditional timing, try to follow the timing based 100% on the great reading. Others such as Layth and Anwar have reached a different conclusion than me based on the great reading. It doesn't matter if you also reach a different or even a wrong conclusion. Just base it 100% on the great reading and not on desperately trying to justify what you found your forefathers doing. As for "not intelligent", there is no passage in the great reading that says that those who try to understand based 100% on the great reading are not intelligent but there are many passages that describe as not intelligent those who blindly follow traditions like cattle.

It doesn't matter what conclusion you reach as long as your starting point is not trying to justify traditions. It is entirely your choice, stupid or intelligent?

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace theNabster,

It will be nice if we kept civil in our exchanges...

Thanks for the reminder. May the god give me patience.

Now Ayman you have hit on something good with the solstice idea combined with the moon cycles.

All good comes from the god. Many people contributed to this understanding and hit on good things. Even those who are against this understanding have inadvertently helped to solidify it and further discredit the traditional timing. The solstice idea is based on 1712.

Layth however argues that the month of Ramadan starts at the beginning of the winter Solstice, and he gave an interesting argument too.

I had posted a quick summary of the various theories some 70 pages ago

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg177608#msg177608

In there, I explain why I don't agree with Layth's timing. However, I am open to agree if he can bring more evidence that shows that his timing is more in line with the great reading.

You base your argument on breaking down the word Ramadan and rooting out the meaning scorching heat.
Well I have another more obvious meaning (as I come from an area where the arabic was very close to that of the arabs in the time of the prophet in North Africa, where the children of Hassan fled persecution from their "brethren" in Syria and the Jazeerah)-
Ramadan = Ashen (from Ramad = Ash)
like ashes - dull silver, a colour seen of the moon in winter.
So here we go one could combine this with Layth angle and put Ramadan at the end of December, from the winter solstice beginning.

Although they sound similar in English, the Arabic word "ramad" for ash is actually not the same as "ramaDh" for scorching. The first is spelled with a Dal and the second is spelled with a Dhad. They are two different roots and meanings.

Of course if I were to be cynical I would prefer this, as Ramadan in winter will be easier to fast ), but joke aside, we need more evidence than just names.

Exactly. Names are meaningless and anyone can arbitrarily call anything a certain name. The correct understanding is not arbitrary but connects everything such as "hajj", fasting, hunting restriction, etc. and automatically makes them fall into place. So far, only the "scorching full-moon" understanding does that.

But I am certain, something will turn up, Allah will get the truth out, but we must keep an open mind, and expect it, and this means stop acting like what we say is written in stone.

I agree. All we can do is follow the best understanding based 100% on the great reading. Right now the "scorching full-moon" understanding is the best available and it is based 100% on the great reading. If a better understanding that is also based 100% on the great reading arises in the future then I am all for it. But the best understanding will never come out from trying to justify the 100% arbitrary traditional calendar and fantacizing to be following the messenger while ignoring the message and following arbitrary manmade traditions.

Peace,

Ayman

noble

Bro Ayman, Salam,
and thank you for the distinction between ramad and ramadh.
my "arabic" has become very rusty as i rarely use it for apart from reading the Quran,
my two main other languages being french and english.
It is sad because as I said I was brought up among people who spoke pristine sahraoui
arabic (also known as sharif arabic in north africa).
Indeed I followed the development of your ideas since I joined free-minds since 2003.
In fact joining free-mind was as a result of a prayer to The God from me.
I have been very lucky though because I never felt an urge to study or get near the hadith.
To summarise, I think in my opinion you are very close to the correct answer regarding the positioning of Ramadan,
and the way the months fall into place when The Prophet realigned them onto a luni-solar calendar which
they were not following, however, since they (the Arab conspirators) pushed the birth of The Prophet a few decades
forward (2 or more), they argued the opposite and said that The Prophet actually re-instated a pure lunar calendar.
I do believe that the lunar calendar was instated after the death of the prophet as an act of reversal into idolatry (Moon God
connection), akin to the other pagan customs such as the Cube and black stone and pagan rituals in Makkah...
Makkah existed, but it certainly was not the Makkah of today, it was Petra (Petra is a roman name, it is a nabatean/arabic town, so what was its arabic name?), and it is referred to in the Quran.
Jerusalem contains the Ka'aba.
It all fits as part of the conspiracy, so for those who are worried about Lunar Ramadan being destroyed, we have no foundation to start with, apart from the Quran that is, so what are you on about?
May The God make us Peace Makers and Reasonable in our endeavours and not shirk from the Truth even if we think it is painful.

Samia

Ps In fact you have given yourself too much credit in believing that you can replace the Prophet.

Salaam farida )

In fact, Ayman is repeating the hadith of the prophet, which is They (the crescents) are but signs to mark fixed periods of time for (the affairs of) people, and for hajj. (source 2189). You are the one who refuses to acknowledge this very "sahih" hadith or discuss it. ;D
Refusing to discuss it because it's about hajj is no excuse, since the discussion is about a shahr of the "Islamic" calender, and the two issues are very much linked.
BTW, why didn't the quraan tell us the name of the month for hajj? And why, in this verse (2189) there's no mention of "Ramadan" if it has to do with "crescents"?

farida

Bro Ayman, Salam,
and thank you for the distinction between ramad and ramadh.
my "arabic" has become very rusty as i rarely use it for apart from reading the Quran,
my two main other languages being french and english.
It is sad because as I said I was brought up among people who spoke pristine sahraoui
arabic (also known as sharif arabic in north africa).
Indeed I followed the development of your ideas since I joined free-minds since 2003.
In fact joining free-mind was as a result of a prayer to The God from me.
I have been very lucky though because I never felt an urge to study or get near the hadith.
To summarise, I think in my opinion you are very close to the correct answer regarding the positioning of Ramadan,
and the way the months fall into place when The Prophet realigned them onto a luni-solar calendar which
they were not following, however, since they (the Arab conspirators) pushed the birth of The Prophet a few decades
forward (2 or more), they argued the opposite and said that The Prophet actually re-instated a pure lunar calendar.

Peace theNabster,

It's always good to see the original members of the free-minds coming to rescue Ayman. However we on this thread are not interested in your Arabic background, your upbringing, your prayers or your luck. We expect evidence that;

The Prophet realigned ?them? onto a luni-solar calendar
(the Arab conspirators) pushed the birth of The Prophet a few decades forward (2 or more),

Any study or article to backup would do, even like the one quickduck produced on behalf of Ayman in his Reply #1246 on August 28, 2009, 075503 PM ?page 84 )(reminded me of Bush coming up with his explanation for the? I wrack? war) I would love to make mincemeat out of likes of Ben Abrahamson and Joseph Katz voodoo

I do believe that the lunar calendar was instated after the death of the prophet as an act of reversal into idolatry (Moon God
connection), akin to the other pagan customs such as the Cube and black stone and pagan rituals in Makkah...
Makkah existed, but it certainly was not the Makkah of today, it was Petra (Petra is a roman name, it is a nabatean/arabic town, so what was its arabic name?), and it is referred to in the Quran.

I do believe = just your opinion

Jerusalem contains the Ka'aba
It all fits as part of the conspiracy, so for those who are worried about Lunar Ramadan being destroyed, we have no foundation to start with, apart from the Quran that is, so what are you on about

I have come across few studies which points to the political and financial interests involved in the conspiracy to shift Ka'aba away from Jerusalem and I earnestly pray for that day when I can go to Jerusalem for my Hajj without any hindrance. pr

May The God make us Peace Makers and Reasonable in our endeavours and not shirk from the Truth even if we think it is painful.?

handshake

farida

Salaam farida

In fact, Ayman is repeating the hadith of the prophet, which is They (the crescents) are but signs to mark fixed periods of time for (the affairs of) people, and for hajj. (source 2189). You are the one who refuses to acknowledge this very "sahih" hadith or discuss it. ;D
Refusing to discuss it because it's about hajj is no excuse, since BTW, why didn't the quraan tell us the name of the month for hajj? And why, in this verse (2189) there's no mention of "Ramadan" if it has to do with "crescents"?

Salaam and welcome back &

Thank you for your input Samia, I am sure Ayman would appreciate it.

peace
Ps

the discussion is about a shahr of the "Islamic" calender, and the two issues are very much linked.

Please read my Reply #1297 on August 31, 2009, 023111 PM ?page 87 and let me know what you hmm

guest

Peace Ayman,

First I thank you for providing the tip on pasting image on this post. Thanks!

Quote from Ayman, Reply #1 on November 20, 2004, 035618 PM ?Interestingly, the full-moon around the summer solstice is special because it follows a lower path across the sky compared to the rest of the year's full moons and for some reason our brains are wired to perceive such full-moons as larger than normal.?

Let?s analyze the contradictions in this one simple sentence of Ayman.

The full moon around summer solstice is not special. The moon?s orbit is fixed by the God. It follows the same path since its creation. This is a verifiable scientific fact. Ayman is contradicting this fact by suggesting that the moon has two paths one for summer solstice and a second one for rest of the year. This is a misleading statement. Even worst, he is contradicting the Quranic verse 555 - The sun and the moon are perfectly calculated.

Ayman, our brains are not wired to perceive solstice full-moons as larger than normal. Our brain does not play any trick on us. It depicts what the eyes see. Many don?t understand what is going on. I will explain the situation to you. Even though it is you job to explain the situation to us since you are the author.

The combined effects of orbital eccentricity and the Sun's tides result in a substantial difference in the apparent size and brightness of the Moon at perigee and apogee. Extreme values for perigee and apogee distance occur when perigee or apogee passage occurs close to new or full Moon, and long-term extremes are in the months near to Earth's perihelion passage (closest approach to the Sun, when the Sun's tidal effects are strongest) in the first few days of January. Here is a link to a picture to demonstrate bigger and brighter moon in the winter season (NH). I am referring to the second picture only and nothing else.

http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/08jan_bigmoon2009.htm

At apogee, the moon is approximately 406,500 km away from earth with an apparent diameter of about 29.5' whereas, at perigee, it is approximately 356,500 km away and is characterized with an apparent diameter of about 33.6'. This difference of 50,000 km between apogee and perigee leads to the dramatic change in the apparent diameter. Also, don?t forget an airplane at 40,000 ft looks smaller than when it is at 10,000 ft or on ground. This effect applies to the moon situation as well.

I hope you noticed the snow in the picture which does not happen in the summer. The brightest of the bright moon happens around January timeframe because the Earth is closest to the sun at this time. Therefore, your theory of huge full moon at summer solstice as the clear marker is false. Please repent and start your fast now.

Quote from Ayman, Reply #1307 on Yesterday at 035016 AM ? Peace Guest and others blindly following the arbitrary sectarian calendar,

As expected, you have evaded answering this question and none of the sectarians on this thread could help you

Please tell everyone how your traditional arbitrary calendar uses the crescent moons as per 2189 to time the "hajj".

You will NEVER be able to answer because just like everything else in your manmade useless unintelligent system, your timing for "hajj" is 100% arbitrary and it neither starts nor ends with the crescent.?

Ayman, it is your job to defend your theory. You shouldn?t be asking us any questions rather telling us how 2189 justifies your theory. This is bad logic.

Clearly the verse 2189 says that the moon is the timing device and NOT THE SUN. Thus, we have lunar timing for Hajj and counting years.

I don't agree with your translation but will use it to disprove your theory.

Commonsense would dictate that start of the moon (new moon crescent) trigger the Hajj event and ends in crescent moon. Begin Hajj with beginning moon. Can it get any simpler than that? You are beating around the bush when you go from full moon (not a crescent moon) to another stage of the moon. Full moon is not considered crescent moon thus you are violating your own definition. Your concept is equivalent to entering a house from back door because the full moon is going back to its new moon stage again. Please stop disobeying the God?s commandments.

Here is a tip for you the moon is a closed loop system and the sun is a closed loop system. It is impossible to bring them together which you are attempting to do, foolishly. It is not like an electronic circuit in which you can couple energy from one loop to create another loop that is in synch with the other. You don?t have that flexibility here. An analogy that fit well is you have one foot on moon another feet on sun and forcing them to synch. And this is unwise and dangerous.

Rami

I don't understand a logical absurdity in this thread. That is if Aymans theory is false, the traditional theory becomes true.

The question remains, why is Ramadan the ninth month of the count and when does your count begin? When is the beginning of the year?

farida

I don't understand a logical absurdity in this thread. That is if Aymans theory is false, the traditional theory becomes true.

Peace Rami

I thought you were the prodigy yet I see you falling into the traditional theory trap. nope

The question remains, why is Ramadan the ninth month of the count and when does your count begin? Where is the beginning of the year?

Please read my Reply #1297 on August 31, 2009, 023111 PM ?page 87 and let me know what you hmm

peace

vivek

Peace Ayman,

Peace Vivek,

Basically, witnessing "shahr ramadhan" means witnessing the scorching full-moon. Per 2184-185, when we witness the scorching full moon we abstain the abstinence for the complete count (10 days) of a few days (3-10 days).

Why is it 10 days? Why not exactly one day?

Is it because the full-moon appears so for about 10 days to our sight?

Isn't full-moon only for a single day scientifically?

Why is it 3-10 days but not from the 1st day of the full-moon?

The scorching full-moon is the full-moon after the summer solstice. The interval between solstices is how years are determined as per 1712. The lunar cycle is kept in sync with the solar cycle by counting exactly 12 full-moons in the solar year (as per 936). Thus, we would skip the occasional 13th full-moon and this would automatically and effortlessly align the lunar cycle with the solar cycle. It is the perfect system.

I hope this very short summary helps.

Peace,

Ayman

Not only traditional Islam but also major religions(Hinduism, Judaism, Taoism,etc) followed lunar calendar. The solar calendar system is purely a christian concept which all of humanity follow now. Though the Quran mentions both the sun and moon as pointers to the time, considering that all other religions followed lunar calendar, why can't we conclude that Islam too in the time of Muhammad used purely a lunar calendar having nothing to do with solar cycles? I ask this question because I believe all such religions as the revealed ones like Islam and value them all at par.

Yours truly,

K.Vivekanandan

afridi220

2185 Shahr ramadan, in which the Qur?an was revealed; as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the month...

Shiin-ha-Ra = make it notable/known/manifest/public/infamous (in a bad or good sense), hire/contract for a month, stay a month, month old, month, new moon, moon, full moon, any evil thing that exposes its author to disgrace, a vice/fault or the like, big & bulky, reputable/eminent.

Source http//www.studyquran.co.uk/19_SH.htm

Ra-Miim-Dad = to be burning, heat, be blasted by the sun. ramaDda - to sharpen (a spear) between stones, roast, pasture on a burning ground, burn. ramDda - scorching heat, burning hot (ground). ramadzan - the ninth month of Islamic calendar, the month of fast.

Source http//www.studyquran.co.uk/17_RA.htm

I don't get why some people so DESPERATELY want to believe in the "Islamic calendar". It's the dumbest calendar ever because it serves absolutely no practical purpose. The seasons occur in different months of the "Islamic calendar" over just a few years. Also, it's next to impossible to know the precise date when a month of the "Islamic calendar" starts. Wouldn't an infinitely wise god would give us better ways of determining times of year? Understanding shahr ramadan as the Flower Moon is much, much more sensible because the Flower Moon is obvious, it's occurrence is independent of the decisions that were taken by previous generations and there's no evidence that the "Islamic calendar" was instituted by the god. Only those who secretly think the god is stupid can believe that the god instituted the "Islamic calendar" and therefore those who believe It did will probably go to Hell.

And those idiots celebrate Prophet Birth day in different seasons too.http//img525.imageshack.us/img525/1562/arrowed.gif

Prophet Muhammad was born Arabia in the city of Mecca on the 12th day of Rabi-ul-Awwal, which was Monday the 20th day of April, 571 A.C. This falls on Saturday May 25, 2002 and fell on June 4th last year (2001). This is also his death anniversary.

http//www.amaana.org/prophet/milad.htm

anthonywallace

What does hajj have to do with us fasting ramadan? Nothin. fftopic What does this and that have to do with anything? This stupid thread been goin on too long. I think its enuff info and differnt views for each to come to their own conclutions and for this thread to be locked or something. Why is it still going on? Back and forth? And my posts alone should be enuff, I think. With verses and correct understanding of them. And either one of the two groups is guided or astray. And it was inspired to me that I am on a straight path. Me and those who follow.

All an all, Ayman is really smart in this area and he has more knowleadge than me and most when it comes to gazing at the stars and all that stuff. But I only follow what quran says and the sun has nothin to do with determining when ramadan is. I also think it is important to know what ayman knows, just like it is important to know what R.K. knew. But I will not reject because of them.

In Allah I place my trust.