Does it say that Adam was the first man in the Quran?
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They are "baseless hadith" (lahwal hadith - 316) fabricated by Persian men centuries well ahead of Muhammad's death and labled "sahih" (authentic) and regarded today by most muslims as "the most authentic books after the Quran."
They're not even as authentic as some science book you can pick up at a book store. It's a sad world.
Which brings up an interesting point. The Quran mentions that there are enemies of every prophet who will fabricate false sayings and teachings. Persia was conquered by the early Arabs and muslims...and 200 years after Muhammad's death, some Persians came to Arabia and wrote "hadith of Muhammad"? A prophecy fulfilled, it seems.
-M
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Peace all,
To complete what Samia have said in her post, there was many "bashar" on earth living like any other animals. Then Adam came into the picture Adam is the first bashar to be able to "conceptualize", to develop abstract thinking, which in turn allowed humans to develop "Language" and "Ideas". This can be seen also from the verse where Adam was taught the descriptions of things...
The progeny of Adam was succeful in surviving over the other "bashar" or human-like species, because they used the power of language.
But the other side on the coin is that humans were then able to create falsehood, false ideas using the language they have created, which they were unable to do before, as any of the animals living nowadays.
This is a quick clarification, sorry, don't have much time for now.
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peace
I do think the quran says it is a simple reminder, and not a science book.
The following is a brief of the story of David and King Saul and that is all.
DAMON tried to find an answer, and I think FAHAD explained it to an extent.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13507.0230
Behold, thy Lord said to the angels "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said "I know what ye know not."Was David a vicegerent? Yes
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YUSUFALI O David! We did indeed make thee a vicegerent on earth so judge thou between men in truth (and justice) Nor follow thou the lusts (of thy heart), for they will mislead thee from the Path of Allah for those who wander astray from the Path of Allah, is a Penalty Grievous, for that they forget the Day of Account.Do vicegerents despoil, for the sake of good? Yes
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YUSUFALI She said "Kings, when they enter a country, despoil it, and make the noblest of its people its meanest thus do them behave.The system of judges was changed to kings/ vicegerents and King David is one of them as the quran depicts.
The people of Israel had for centuries been governed and rescued from military crisis by local leaders known as ?judges.? But the judge system had lost public support, and the population demanded that the last judge, the prophet Samuel, reform the political system and name a king to succeed him
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YUSUFALI And He taught Adam the names of all things; then He placed them before the angels, and said "Tell me the names of these if ye are right."
He taught David a lot more then any tom dick and Harry.021.080
YUSUFALI It was We Who taught him the making of coats of mail for your benefit, to guard you from each other's violence will ye then be grateful?
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YUSUFALI We gave (in the past) knowledge to David and Solomon And they both said "Praise be to Allah, Who has favored us above many of his servants who believe!"
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YUSUFALI And Solomon was David's heir. He said "O ye people! We have been taught the speech of birds, and on us has been bestowed (a little) of all things this is indeed Grace manifest (from Allah.)"After God rejected the foolish and corrupt Saul, Israel's first king, He sent Samuel to Bethlehem to anoint David as the successor (1 Samuel 161-13). The transition would be gradual however. David returned to caring for the sheep, but "The Spirit of The Lord came upon David from that day forward," (1 Samuel 1613) and "The Spirit of The Lord departed from Saul" (1 Samuel 1614).
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YUSUFALI They said "Glory to Thee, of knowledge We have none, save what Thou Hast taught us In truth it is Thou Who art perfect in knowledge and wisdom."
The judges didn?t know methods of fighting and that is why kings or vicegerents started;002.033
YUSUFALI He said "O Adam! Tell them their names." When he had told them, Allah said "Did I not tell you that I know the secrets of heaven and earth, and I know what ye reveal and what ye conceal?"With no armor, and no weapon except a shepherd's sling, he killed Goliath with his first stone. He proceeded to take the giant's sword from him and cut off his head with it.
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YUSUFALI By Allah's will they routed them; and David slew Goliath; and Allah gave him power and wisdom and taught him whatever (else) He willed. And did not Allah Check one set of people by means of another, the earth would indeed be full of mischief But Allah is full of bounty to all the worlds.002.034
YUSUFALI And behold, We said to the angels "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis he refused and was haughty He was of those who reject Faith.It is a mark of David's obscurity that as he was advancing toward Goliath, Saul, who had employed David's services as a musician, said to general Abner, ?Who is that kid?? and Abner replied, ?I don't know.?
After this summer, though, David was obscure no more. As the armies returned home in the fall, the civilians celebrated the successful war season. The artistically inclined wrote songs, and a line from one of these songs, ?Saul has slain thousands, and David tens of thousands,? brought joy to by everyone ? but IT GALLED SAUL.002.035
YUSUFALI We said "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden; and eat of the bountiful things therein as (where and when) ye will; but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."ZAWJ isn?t always a wife but the second in some form of partnership;
And in this case it was King Saul and David- I believe as they both had to live as leaders, but Saul hated David and couldn?t live in the palace with David around.http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume3/00000433.pdf
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YUSUFALI Then did Satan make them slip from the (garden), and get them out of the state (of felicity) in which they had been. We said "Get ye down, all (ye people), with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood - for a time."
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YUSUFALI Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
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YUSUFALI We said "Get ye down all from here; and if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.David's rapid rise to success, his great popularity with the public, and the (true) rumor that the LORD had named David the next king, convinced Saul that David wanted to eliminate him and seize the throne. This was far from the truth. As we shall see, David was supremely loyal to Saul. Saul, however, captured by depression and paranoia, hated David.
Saul became deeply depressed and moody, and his staff, not realizing his thoughts about David were the cause of his melancholy, called David to play the harp for him. While David played, Saul fondled his spear and nursed his anger. Suddenly, he hurled his spear at David, who fled from the room. However, loyal David remained in Saul's service in spite of this violation.
Deciding to avoid direct murder and kill David by subterfuge, Saul began sending him on very difficult military missions, with the hope that he would be killed. David foiled his plans, however, by successfully completing every mission. The public and the king's staff became more and more pleased with David, but this only made Saul hate him more.
Saul's next effort to kill David was also subversive. Saul's daughter Michal had a crush on David, and Saul offered her in marriage to David if he would kill 100 Philistines within a certain time limit, and provide evidence of the feat. Saul hoped David would be killed in the attempt. David, going beyond the call of duty, killed 200. And so this plot also failed.
Next, Saul openly ordered his staff to find David and kill him. Prince Jonathan, who had become David's best friend, first warned David to hide, and then spoke to Saul on David's behalf, reminding him of David's loyal deeds. Saul listened to reason, rescinded the order, and was reunited with David.
Then one day, while Saul was depressed and David was playing the harp for him, Saul again fell into a rage and threw his spear at David. David fled to Samuel's home where, in spite of the discouraging circumstances, the two of them along with some others worshipped and praised God. Saul sent men to arrest David, but when they arrived, the Spirit of the LORD seized them, and they began praising God with David and Samuel. Saul sent a second and a third group, with the same result. Finally, Saul himself went to capture David. Arriving at their praise meeting, Saul was overcome and began praising God too, abandoning his original intentions.
David next secured Jonathan's aid in appealing to the king. But as Jonathan pled David's case, Saul became enraged and threw his spear at Jonathan. Jonathan had previously defended his father's motives, but this convinced him of Saul's evil intentions toward David. In fury, Jonathan stormed away. He told David the whole story. The two swore an oath to be lifelong friends, and then David went into hiding.http//www.geocities.com/thekingsofisrael/biography_Saul.html
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YUSUFALI "But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein."
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YUSUFALI O Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and fulfil your covenant with Me as I fulfil My Covenant with you, and fear none but Me.And know why on earth is the quran talking to the children of Israel? Because that is who the above example is about and they are being reminded.
But each to his understanding.
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Why is pretty much every translation of 7189 saying God created a male being and then from "him" his spouse? This is even submission.org's translation.
But the verse is saying God created all of you from a "nafs" (one being) and created FROM HER (minha, not minnoh) HER SPOUSE (zowjaham, and not zowgou).
Ok, so what is the correct understanding of 7189? Anyone?
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Why is pretty much every translation of 7189 saying God created a male being and then from "him" his spouse? This is even submission.org's translation.
But the verse is saying God created all of you from a "nafs" (one being) and created FROM HER (minha, not minnoh) HER SPOUSE (zowjaham, and not zowgou).
Ok, so what is the correct understanding of 7189? Anyone?
I thought it was non-gender specific. ???
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I thought it was non-gender specific. ???
It is.
Except here
7189
It is He Who created you from a single soul, and created her mate from it , in order that he might dwell with her (in love). When he had sexual contact with her, she bears a light burden and carries it about (unnoticed). When she grows heavy, they both pray to Allah their Lord, (saying) "If Thou givest us a goodly child, we vow we shall (ever) be grateful.
The underlined pronouns are gendered, because they are linked to the last underlined (she), who bears the child!
The original Arabic versionThis is a proof that Adam was either a couple, at least, or a female ;D
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Peace all,
To complete what Samia have said in her post, there was many "bashar" on earth living like any other animals. Then Adam came into the picture Adam is the first bashar to be able to "conceptualize", to develop abstract thinking, which in turn allowed humans to develop "Language" and "Ideas". This can be seen also from the verse where Adam was taught the descriptions of things...
The progeny of Adam was succeful in surviving over the other "bashar" or human-like species, because they used the power of language.
But the other side on the coin is that humans were then able to create falsehood, false ideas using the language they have created, which they were unable to do before, as any of the animals living nowadays.
This is a quick clarification, sorry, don't have much time for now.
Good post.
The other bashars could be like 'homo blabla' (homo blabla as in homo sapiens, etc.), right?
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Peace Samia, et al,
Still studying the concept...
God brethed into the bashar and the insaan (adam) ws the result
If that's the case, what's your explanation for
347, 379, 1793-94 ?
All the verses that say i am a bashar just like you (eg. 18110), use bashar -- never insaan.
Rijaal/rajul is used though.
Maybe bashar means mortal?
Not saying insaan is 'immortal'. But, maybe that's the most accurate translation, contextually speaking?
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peace all
as i've gathered knowledge so far, i see (and interpret) quran a bit differently, ... i say it's like this
our soul was formed in a different world, then the soul was split into 2 pieces and each put into a physical body here on earth... one male, one female. we were created in pairs, from a single soul -
It is.
Except here
7189
It is He Who created you from a single soul, and created her mate from it , in order that he might dwell with her (in love). When he had sexual contact with her, she bears a light burden and carries it about (unnoticed). When she grows heavy, they both pray to Allah their Lord, (saying) "If Thou givest us a goodly child, we vow we shall (ever) be grateful.
The underlined pronouns are gendered, because they are linked to the last underlined (she), who bears the child!
The original Arabic versionThis is a proof that Adam was either a couple, at least, or a female ;D
Thanks Sami. I have a question on the underlinked part of your quote. In arabic does YOU necessarily refer to ALL humankind in this verse or is it singular and only referring to each of us based on occurences throughout the quran. The reason being is that nerspis interpretation is interesting and I want to see whether it is possible based on the quran.
PEACE
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Peace Samia, et al,
Still studying the concept...
If that's the case, what's your explanation for
347, 379, 1793-94 ?
All the verses that say i am a bashar just like you (eg. 18110), use bashar -- never insaan.
Rijaal/rajul is used though.
Maybe bashar means mortal?
Not saying insaan is 'immortal'. But, maybe that's the most accurate translation, contextually speaking?
Sorry for the belated response. I forgot I posted on this thread ;D
It's difficult to find words in English that convey the difference between bashar and insan. Bashar is the anatomic version, the version where all people share the basic qualities in appearance and behaviour, irrespective of their status, race, wealth or any acquired qualities....
I will give you a simple explanation of how we use this differencein Arabic todayFor medicine "bashari" medicine ,since medicine applies to all people irrespective of their accquired qualitiesnaturalhumans.
For humanities "insani" sciences ,since this science deals with people taking ntoconsideration their languages,customes,traditions,beliefs...and all their acquired qualities.In the verses you mention, "bashar" means any person irrespective of their other traits or qualities.
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Thanks Sami. I have a question on the underlinked part of your quote. In arabic does YOU necessarily refer to ALL humankind in this verse or is it singular and only referring to each of us based on occurences throughout the quran. The reason being is that nerspis interpretation is interesting and I want to see whether it is possible based on the quran.
PEACE
The address is to the plural audience "you".
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...Adam ?one causes blood to flow.(231)
David did that and so did Moses, and the Jews tried to do that to Jesus not sure if they where successful.
peace
Peace Simple,
Didn't Muhammad do that(causing blood to flow)? If not, what about that wars he waged even for defending Islam or protecting his/followers' life?
Yours truly,
K.Vivekanandan
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7189, 396 can be looked that way,
don't think it makes much of a difference if it's plural or singular. goes both ways.
but how i derived at it is another story altogether. quran encourages us to explore nature, world... knowledge is everywhere, it's not compressed in 1 book, it has all we need for guidence but it also points elsewhere, not at itself.http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597535.msg188417#msg188417
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IDPhaPqVkk
http//www.nderf.org/consciousness.htm
"Soulmates is a necessary component of soul development. NDErs identified the most important principals as 1) that everything and everyone is connected; 2) recognition that the other side is home; 3) unconditional love; 4) support from both sides of the veil for our soul development; 5) lessons on reconnection; and 6) that Soulmates is one aspect of individuals feeling connected to a supreme creative being. These principals were derived from the most commonly reported elements concerning relationships. Questions reviewed were those asking about encounters with beings (familiar and unfamiliar), comments about relationships, emotions, feelings, interconnectedness, and universal purpose or order."
http//www.ascension-research.org/twin_flames.htmli know most (if not all) of the research is of spiritual nature, through nde, or obe... it's still valid. i read quite a lot on it to understand it better, plus it really doesn't say anything against qran, in fact it makes me look at 7189 in that light.
yes it can be refering to formation of a physical body as well, yet it couldbe bother, that + soul creation... i don't see why God would focus so much on this physical being when it's almost unimportant, compared to a soul, it vanishes with time, but soul is here forever. it's the soul that's important, it's the soul that drives this body.