Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Salam Farida,
Allah bless you and protect you from the evil ones.
We're all in the same boat... just different brain chemicals
prompting us at different levels of concerns... )
and to be honest I no longer wish to argue nor want to waste
the energy in doing so... our death is close enough...
hopefully, Allah will bless us with some of the answers we are
striving for...
and I do beg to differ, we are never past neither good approaches,
good questions, nor proper answers and solutions...
in fact if you read the Quran closely, we are not only enjoined, encouraged to do so
but even dared many times to do so too, to examine, scrutinise and challenge what is put in front of us, and ponder what happens to those before us, not only as people who believed (if ever in our case), but as humans too...
the tragedy for the sectarians is that as you rightly say, they have stopped following these important commandments, that
by the way the scientific community made it one of their cornerstone in their approach to the observation and understanding of reality,
but even them do get manipulated by their pre-conceived filters and ideas, so you are never careful...
the ways of the devil are numerous, but the best ploy against him is knowledge, not dogma... -
Thank you for the welcome, farida.
In fact I was following the thread closely, but could not have the time to participate; also did not find something new except acusing Ayman of repeating himself while the same questions are posed to him.
Until I red your post which you just told me of, and I mean this oneSalaam Samia,
No Samia there is a lot of new stuff on this thread. Ayman?s Mantra having put people like you off is another matter. But the thread is turning into a black hole and, as a result, all the hard work by the other contributors is being swallowed up. It has now come to a stage where I have to give page link as a reference for my posts to draw attention to our hard work.
What drew my attention was your differenciation between the meaning of "sana/ " and "3aam/ ". I really like your rendition and was surprised that you did not notice that God does not care what "our year" is or how long it's, but for Him it's from harvest to harvest (sanaa)or draught to draught (3aam), yet you cannot comprehend how, in the same manner, He does not care about our "month" and how long it ias. God speaks to use using His creation not our inventions, and that's why the quraan is full of advice for us to contemplate the creation.
As for the story of Khalifa Omar, the narrators say that the setting of a calendar was initiated by the walis and governors when money poured from foreign governates, and they had to know when exactly it arrived and to which "ramadan" it belonged so as not to mix the revenues of different years. I found this very interesting. They did not have a problem with when to fast (when ramadaan was), nor when to go to hajj; yet they wanted to know which "ramadaan/harvest time". This revenue, of course, was mainly the income of harvest. The decision of starting with the year of immigration was not even Omar's. So the year had nothing to do with fasting people did not need it for their fasting, otherwise, the prophet would have set it, and not address people that "their deen was complete".
)I feel so honoured that you like my rendition, however, if only you had paid attention to the top part of my post, you would have noticed that it cited 936 ?The count of the months with God is twelve months in God's record.?
I?m surprised that this part of my post did not interest you, despite the fact that this is the core of our belief, when it comes to count in the eyes of God as you rightly said that God does not care what "our year. Therefore no adding or skipping just count 12 *shahr/moon/month,.
*Month Etymology -Reply #1213 on August 27, 2009, 042925 PM page 81 I am sure this too was unnoticed by youMost probably, the corruption took place later when the islamic empire was full of hypocrates and traitors, the same time of hadith invention.
Moreover, even hadith and tales could not prove that a month called "Ramadan" existed. Those who dicuss this say the equivalent was called "Zahir/ ". I wonder why God brings about a name of a month the people are not aware of, and no question was asked!
Thanks again for this post 8No offence Samia but, unlike you, I have little interest these hadiths, however if you like to get your hand on a hadith driven dossier, introduced to us by a very interesting character, quickduck, who was trying to convince us (failing miserably) that , the order of months, as per his understanding, has never been always the same. Get your hands on this find on page 84 quickduck?s Reply #1246 on August 28, 2009, 075503 PM I am sure you would love this findings.
As always it?s great to hear from you.
peace -
Salam Farida,
Allah bless you and protect you from the evil ones.
We're all in the same boat... just different brain chemicals
prompting us at different levels of concerns...Salaam theNabster
May you be protected too.and to be honest I no longer wish to argue nor want to waste
the energy in doing so... our death is close enough...
hopefully, Allah will bless us with some of the answers we are
striving for......You don?t want to waste more energy on this subject; after the exchange of only a few posts you?ve already lost the will whereas we, on this thread, have been striving to uncover the deceit since last year. We are exhausted but not defeated and that?s what I meant when I said ?I am sorry to say we are long past initial hypothesis, and at a stage where we are not wasting any more time on unfounded opinions.
and I do beg to differ, we are never past neither good approaches,
good questions, nor proper answers and solutions...
in fact if you read the Quran closely, we are not only enjoined, encouraged to do so
but even dared many times to do so too, to examine, scrutinise and challenge what is put in front of us, and ponder what happens to those before us, not only as people who believed (if ever in our case), but as humans too...And that is exactly what we have been doing since last Ramadan on this thread challenging Ayman?s distorted hot scorching full moon theory which is a straight violation of 936 & 937. And how we have been mocked and laughed at for taking this stance!
the tragedy for the sectarians is that as you rightly say, they have stopped following these important commandments, that
by the way the scientific community made it one of their cornerstone in their approach to the observation and understanding of reality,
but even them do get manipulated by their pre-conceived filters and ideas, so you are never careful...
the ways of the devil are numerous, but the best ploy against him is knowledge, not dogmaI have long since stopped worrying about the sectarians. There was a time when I used to try and change my friends from among them and, to tell you the honest truth, most of the time when I discuss issues with them in light of the Qur?an, they do not disagree with me and agree about the corruptions. But then they say; we are not as brave as you and cannot break away from what we are. So I have left them to their deeds as that is what I understand we are supposed to do; just warn if they do not listen, but for the rest we have no authority over them.
However the greatest tragedy is the case of those who claim to be ?Qur?an Aloners?, those who, on this very site spend endless time mocking the traditionalists, the sunni, the hijjabis etc.! It is such a waste of time and, of course, in stark contravention of the teachings of the Qur?an.
On this very thread a thirteen year old wrote, in response to my post to you,( Reply #1364 on Today at 064510 PM) ?Hey but those "plagued people" think o' us as infidels and apostates...threatening us with death..." Is this really the legacy we wish to pass on to our youngsters?! I think not.
358 The one whose evil work is adorned and he sees it as being good. God thus misguides whom he wills, and He guides whom He wills. So do not let yourself grieve over them. God is fully aware of what they are doing.
God bless
peace -
Salaam theNabster
May you be protected too. You don?t want to waste more energy on this subject; after the exchange of only a few posts you?ve already lost the will whereas we, on this thread, have been striving to uncover the deceit since last year.Salam again prolific Sis Farida,
No mind reading please
I wish I were 13 years old matter of fact ;D
As for the division into sects, nothing we can do about it, Allah pointed at it in the Quran,
and it will therefore keep on being so...
However Allah enjoins us very forcefully that we should not divide into sects.
Without the Quran there is no System of Belief, so the ball is clearly in the camp of those
who like distinguishing and separating themselves, each group giving themselves a name,
as Allah says, name they just named... no authority to those whatsoever...
Yes you are right we have enough of our own sins and shortcomings not to worry of those of others,
and as you can witness everyday, Allah hates those groups enough that they keep getting punished
for their blindness.
Blindness is no excuse, lack of judgment is no excuse, tradition is no excuse, being made is no excuse...
when there is the Book manifest in our hands, and most of us choose not to understand it, and instead out of
laziness choose to let others do the thinking for us, even if others are hell bent on our damnation...
and indeed by my last words I do not mean only scholars or mullahs, but also those "enlightened" hate mongers
you refer to who love to create animosity between communities (let's see, sectarian violence, shia versus sunni,
jihadist versus progressives).
My contention is that all these groups are inspired by dark princes of satan's kingdom, and without knowing
they are doing satan's bidding.
This also works by the way with the other religious groups in christianity and judaism, and governments...
Satan's army is now so very well oiled and organised, that I am prompted to think that maybe jihad was meant to mean
fighting the works of satan and his soldiers...
Peace -
Salam again prolific Sis Farida,
No mind reading please
I wish I were 13 years old matter of fact ;D
As for the division into sects, nothing we can do about it, Allah pointed at it in the Quran,
and it will therefore keep on being so...
However Allah enjoins us very forcefully that we should not divide into sects.
Without the Quran there is no System of Belief, so the ball is clearly in the camp of those
who like distinguishing and separating themselves, each group giving themselves a name,
as Allah says, name they just named... no authority to those whatsoever...
Yes you are right we have enough of our own sins and shortcomings not to worry of those of others,
and as you can witness everyday, Allah hates those groups enough that they keep getting punished
for their blindness.
Blindness is no excuse, lack of judgment is no excuse, tradition is no excuse, being made is no excuse...
when there is the Book manifest in our hands, and most of us choose not to understand it, and instead out of
laziness choose to let others do the thinking for us, even if others are hell bent on our damnation...
and indeed by my last words I do not mean only scholars or mullahs, but also those "enlightened" hate mongers
you refer to who love to create animosity between communities (let's see, sectarian violence, shia versus sunni,
jihadist versus progressives).
My contention is that all these groups are inspired by dark princes of satan's kingdom, and without knowing
they are doing satan's bidding.
This also works by the way with the other religious groups in christianity and judaism, and governments...
Satan's army is now so very well oiled and organised, that I am prompted to think that maybe jihad was meant to mean
fighting the works of satan and his soldiers...
PeaceWa alaikum salaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu brother!
Ahh finally; soo relieved to see someone taking a stance based on the teachings of the Qur?an! God give you strength and resolve to stand up against those who want to erase our deen. As for dividing into sects and groups as Allah says in the Qur;an mankind were one but they fell into groups out of their own desire.
We are already separated in small sects fighting each other and, on top of that, a system of fasting, based on a twisted understanding, designed to fragment what little unity we have been able to muster. The sense of community that comes with sharing our experience of fasting would disappear should the theory Ayman is advocating win through. Not only does it swing, but it is also very different for both hemispheres so in his system we would not even be united with our next door neighbours when it comes to any act of worship. So on this note I bid you good night with these words from our Holy Book
Say "I seek refuge with the Lord of the people,"
"The King of the people,"
The god of the people,"
From the evil of the sneaking whisperer,"
Who whispers into the chests of the people."
peace -
Peace Ayman,
You can only count 12 so you have to skip the 13th. You are also giving me too much credit since it is the god who made the moon cycle, including the full-moon, so it is not "mine".
It is ALWAYS in early summer, whether you like it or not. On the other hand, how about your arbitrary nonsense timing which drifts all over the place and even within the same year you have 3 months together and then Rajab floating all by itself? As usual, you can't answer.
Animal mating and birthing habits are in line with the seasons. The timing for the restriction will always be from early summer to early fall. On the other hand, no animal gives birth in the summer and gives birth earlier by 11 days every year until about a dozen years later it gives birth in the winter per your nonsense.
How illogically absurd; skip count, ignore a whole cycle, and say it's not yours.
Again ? no answer to drifting kill season and everything else drifting by a month. Already stated; global hunting restriction is your fantasy along with "the skipping" to allow the sun to catch up with the moon which is never the case...
3640 La alshshamsu yanbaghee laha an tudrika alqamara
The sun should not (be) to it that it catches up the moonYou are ignorantly mistranslating. The word "siyam" is a noun not a verb.
583-4
And those who declare their wives as forbidden for them as their mothers
so freeing a neck from before that they touch each other
And he who finds not must do the abstinence two successive full-moons before they both touch each other
And he who is unable to do so should feed sixty poorThe abstinence two successive full-moons means wait until next 98%, 99%, 100% full moon then fast to next non-identifiable 98%, 99%, 100% full moon which is about a month +/- a few days for error.
Therefore, the abstinence of one full-moon is ZERO days!
Let's apply the verse today
- Does he commence fasting? YES!
- Can he sleep with his wife until the next full moon? NO!
- Does feeding 60 poor equate to two months fasting? YES!
Go learn Arabic and more importantly logic. The word "quran" is masculine while " " in 7431 is feminine (referring to the feminine "saqar" while in 690 " " is masculine referring to the "quran". You are in way over your head and this entire discussion is clearly beyond your intellectual capacity if you can't even grasp those basic concepts. You are sounding more and more like ignorant 19ers who also confuse the feminine " " (on it) in 7430 as talking about the masculine "quran" and not the feminine "saqar". (not surprising since they too believe and blindly follow your manmade arbitrary traditional calendar by the way and they even made a Code for it as Progressive1993 can show you http//www.islamrevolution.org/thenightofdestiny.htm ).
It doesn't matter what conclusion you reach as long as your starting point is not trying to justify traditions. It is entirely your choice, stupid or intelligent?
Hot moon is stupid as are your grammar rules which Qur'an is genderless also called the reminder/remembrance...
1644
With the evidences and The Books, and We descended to you the reminder to clarify to the people what was descended to them, and perhaps they think.72
A Book was descended to you so no strain be in your chest from it, to warn with it and a remembrance/reminder to the believers.7431
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Salam,
Have a look herehttp//www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Ramadan
Ramadan Etymology -
"ninth month of the Muslim year," 1595, from Arabic Ramadan (Turk. and Pers. ramazan), originally "the hot month," from ramida "be burnt, scorched" (cf. Heb. remetz "hot ashes, embers". Due to the Islamic lunar calendar, it passes through all seasons in a cycle of about 33 years, but evidently originally it was a summer month.but there is also more sinister etymology to Ramadan such as this
The principle theme of cosmology is creation and everywhere in the ancient world festivals were celebrated on the days of creation, i.e. the days of the sun?s equinox risings. In many ancient nations the new year was celebrated on the spring equinox, for then a new world had emerged out of the darkness of winter. There is in fact a sacred holiday which bears Rama?s name--the Islamic feast known as Ramadan. The word Ramadan is a cognate of Ramazan, or san rama, meaning Holy Sun (Bayley 345). While Ramadan is officially a lunar holiday, it?s etymology shows its meaning, and its time of celebration just after the fall equinox makes a conclusive connection to its solar origin. Ramadan is celebrated on the first new moon after the fall equinox when the fertile earth (fertilized by the sun) has been harvested and its bounty will succor the people?s journey into winter.
Bayley, Harold. Lost Language of Symbolism, Volumes 1 and 2. Whitefish, Montana Kessinger Publishing Company, 1912.
taken from - http//www.cosmosandlogos.com
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It seems my fears are true. The Ramadan of the Quran is impossible to pin-point due to insufficient data. The Quran mentions it once as if its a well known thing. And the ones who know the month are DEAD.
So let us be sectarians for Pete's sake!
Sectarian?
THIS IS TRADITIONAL ISLAM!
http//i149.photobucket.com/albums/s68/MJOLNIR_VII/ThisisIslam.png
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Salam Farida, all
...introduced to us by a very interesting character, quickduck, who was trying to convince us (failing miserably) that , the order of months, as per his understanding, has never been always the same. Get your hands on this find on page 84 quickduck?s Reply #1246 on August 28, 2009, 075503 PM I am sure you would love this findings.
As always it?s great to hear from you.
peace1 - I never meant that the PDF research i linked to was infaillible.
2 - After reading it, i found that it was a hadith based research, and thus may contain false statements and/or Valid ones.
3 - I linked to that Research exactly to pionpoint the fact that we SHOULD go back to the only source that's infaillible to start our study from.
4 - it's sad, but everyone noticed that your "actual Ramadan" has no basis in the quran, instead it pops out directly from hadith books, which are as infaillible as the very PDF Research i linked to...
5- Thank you for finding me " an interesting character".. handshakePeace Ayman,
Hot moon is stupid as are your grammar rules which Qur'an is genderless also called the reminder/remembrance...
1644
With the evidences and The Books, and We descended to you the reminder to clarify to the people what was descended to them, and perhaps they think.72
A Book was descended to you so no strain be in your chest from it, to warn with it and a remembrance/reminder to the believers.7431
Are you sure of speaking/understanding arabic ?? is the same as to you ? is the same as ???
it's never too late to learn, if not too much laziness.
it took me only few months to improve my english drastically that it was Farida who noticed my "almost perfect" English .Peace all,
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Are you sure of speaking/understanding arabic ?? is the same as to you ? is the same as ???
it's never too late to learn, if not too much laziness.
it took me only few months to improve my english drastically that it was Farida who noticed my "almost perfect" English .No I speaking/understanding zero Arabic; what about you -- what is the correct gender?
411
to the male/masculine alike fortune the two females5417
and We have made flexible the Quran to the remembrance so is there from a rememberer?1644
With the evidences and The Books, and We descended to you the remembrance to clarify to the people what was descended to them, and perhaps they think.72
A Book was descended to you so no strain be in your chest from it, to warn with it and a remembrance to the believers.7431
7431 it (Qur?an) is not except a remembrance to the human (illa thikra lilbashari)
she is not except male/masculine
OR
it is not except a remembrance to the human
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Peace NunHolidayPseudoEidRex ,
No I speaking/understanding zero Arabic; what about you -- what is the correct gender?
411
to the male/masculine alike fortune the two females5417
and We have made flexible the Quran to the remembrance so is there from a rememberer?1644
With the evidences and The Books, and We descended to you the remembrance to clarify to the people what was descended to them, and perhaps they think.72
A Book was descended to you so no strain be in your chest from it, to warn with it and a remembrance to the believers.7431
7431 it (Qur?an) is not except a remembrance to the human (illa thikra lilbashari)
she is not except male/masculine
OR
it is not except a remembrance to the human
Absolute top 10 dumbest post ever..LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
quran = she = ????????
Could someone please answer him, i can't stop myself laughin.. laugh laugh laughi'll come back later , once i stop
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EDIT sorry, i'm back again
you know, your major problem with your arabic reading/understanding is that you completly ignore the arabic vocals .
Yet, someone will tell me that the vocals don't appear in the oldest manuscript, and were added later.
That's because earlier arabs didn't need to write the vocals 'cos they understood from the context which vocal is to be connected to which letter. They even did't put the "dots" on the letters yet they could read and understand what was written.
still nowadays, the arabic newspapers for example, don't use vocals because we (arab speaking people) are very able to figure them out from the context.
the vocals were lately added to the quran specially for people like you, but you keep ignoring them and you focus only on the "root letters" and some ''tradition based" translations.example N?1 li ad-dhakari (male/masculine) is not the same as "ad-dhikra" (remembrance) and different from ad-dhikr ( the reminder). although they share the same root dha-ka-ra
example N?2 hadatha (happen ) , hadath (event) , had-data ( narrate ) and haadita (accident ) share the same root
and they give completly different meanings .Also, genders (masculine/ feminine ) in arabic grammar is a bit difficult for you to understand because your language doesn't have such grammatical rules. And i agree it's confusing for you...
in the great reading nowhere we find that the quran is treated as feminine (that's what made laugh my head off in your last post ) but always as masculine word . ie ( Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "GOD's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods* beside GOD." Say, "I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry." ....wa ouheya ilayya hadha al qur'ano li undhirakum bihi wa man balagh..
So as you see , "this" (hadha) is masculine whereas the same ''this'' become (hadhihi) when it is feminine."a rivederci, e a la proxima lezzione ".
Salam
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Peace NunHolidayPseudoEidRex ,
Absolute top 10 dumbest post ever..LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
quran = she = ????????
Could someone please answer him, i can't stop myself laughin.. laugh laugh laughi'll come back later , once i stop
Here is someone for you
In pre-Islamic times, there is nothing to know about writing Arabic because Arabic was an oral vernacular that was rarely written and it didn't even have a script. Thus, when the great reading was written, the foreign Nabataean Aramaic script was used to write it. This doesn't mean that the Arabs didn't write. They wrote but not in Arabic and only on rare occasions they wrote Arabic and in those rare cases they used foreign scripts to write it. Ref Reply #858 onpage 58
Salaam -
EDIT sorry, i'm back again )
you know, your major problem with your arabic reading/understanding is that you completly ignore the arabic vocals .
Yet, someone will tell me that the vocals don't appear in the oldest manuscript, and were added later.
That's because earlier arabs didn't need to write the vocals 'cos they understood from the context which vocal is to be connected to which letter. They even did't put the "dots" on the letters yet they could read and understand what was written.
still nowadays, the arabic newspapers for example, don't use vocals because we (arab speaking people) are very able to figure them out from the context.
the vocals were lately added to the quran specially for people like you, but you keep ignoring them and you focus only on the "root letters" and some ''tradition based" translations.example N?1 li ad-dhakari (male/masculine) is not the same as "ad-dhikra" (remembrance) and different from ad-dhikr ( the reminder). although they share the same root dha-ka-ra
example N?2 hadatha (happen ) , hadath (event) , had-data ( narrate ) and haadita (accident ) share the same root
and they give completly different meanings .Also, genders (masculine/ feminine ) in arabic grammar is a bit difficult for you to understand because your language doesn't have such grammatical rules. And i agree it's confusing for you...
in the great reading nowhere we find that the quran is treated as feminine (that's what made laugh my head off in your last post ) but always as masculine word . ie ( Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "GOD's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods* beside GOD." Say, "I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry." ....wa ouheya ilayya hadha al qur'ano li undhirakum bihi wa man balagh..
So as you see , "this" (hadha) is masculine whereas the same ''this'' become (hadhihi) when it is feminine."a rivederci, e a la proxima lezzione ".
Salam
Salaam
So you are back to do what Q_student noticed in his Reply #876 on page 59
Why are you trying to detrack the thread. You derailed it from "Ramadhan " to " Thamud".
peace -
Salam Farida, all
1 - I never meant that the PDF research i linked to was infaillible.
2 - After reading it, i found that it was a hadith based research, and thus may contain false statements and/or Valid ones.
3. I linked to that Research exactly to pionpoint the fact that we SHOULD go back to the only source that's infaillible to start our study from.Peace all,
Salaam quickduck,
So guest was right in his Reply #968 on page 65;
The order of the months was established firmly by the Prophet during his stay with was (previous generation) which we still follow. You are making a false accusation that Umar changed the order of the months without any valid evidence. Umar is the one who fought with the Prophet and not you. My innermost thoughts tell me that he didn?t abandon the Islam religion like you suggest using the example ?he changed the order of months?. Judging your logic from the contents of your posts, I would most certainly conclude it is you who we should be careful about. Suggesting such a drastic change during the time in question would be equivalent to asking for extreme punishment. Even a sane disbeliever wouldn?t dare do that5- Thank you for finding me " an interesting character".. handshake
Yes not only interesting but a Bush alike, I mean "I wrack" type bravo
it took me only few months to improve my english drastically that it was Farida who noticed my "almost perfect" English .
yay It was Farida who also noticed Ayman's style hmm.."almost perfect"
peace -
Sectarian?
THIS IS TRADITIONAL ISLAM!
http//i149.photobucket.com/albums/s68/MJOLNIR_VII/ThisisIslam.png
rotfl so true!