Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Salam Farida, all
1 - I never meant that the PDF research i linked to was infaillible.
2 - After reading it, i found that it was a hadith based research, and thus may contain false statements and/or Valid ones.
3. I linked to that Research exactly to pionpoint the fact that we SHOULD go back to the only source that's infaillible to start our study from.Peace all,
Salaam quickduck,
So guest was right in his Reply #968 on page 65;
The order of the months was established firmly by the Prophet during his stay with was (previous generation) which we still follow. You are making a false accusation that Umar changed the order of the months without any valid evidence. Umar is the one who fought with the Prophet and not you. My innermost thoughts tell me that he didn?t abandon the Islam religion like you suggest using the example ?he changed the order of months?. Judging your logic from the contents of your posts, I would most certainly conclude it is you who we should be careful about. Suggesting such a drastic change during the time in question would be equivalent to asking for extreme punishment. Even a sane disbeliever wouldn?t dare do that5- Thank you for finding me " an interesting character".. handshake
Yes not only interesting but a Bush alike, I mean "I wrack" type bravo
it took me only few months to improve my english drastically that it was Farida who noticed my "almost perfect" English .
yay It was Farida who also noticed Ayman's style hmm.."almost perfect"
peace -
Sectarian?
THIS IS TRADITIONAL ISLAM!
http//i149.photobucket.com/albums/s68/MJOLNIR_VII/ThisisIslam.png
rotfl so true!
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Salam,
Have a look herehttp//www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Ramadan
Ramadan Etymology -
"ninth month of the Muslim year," 1595, from Arabic Ramadan (Turk. and Pers. ramazan), originally "the hot month," from ramida "be burnt, scorched" (cf. Heb. remetz "hot ashes, embers". Due to the Islamic lunar calendar, it passes through all seasons in a cycle of about 33 years, but evidently originally it was a summer month.but there is also more sinister etymology to Ramadan such as this
The principle theme of cosmology is creation and everywhere in the ancient world festivals were celebrated on the days of creation, i.e. the days of the sun?s equinox risings. In many ancient nations the new year was celebrated on the spring equinox, for then a new world had emerged out of the darkness of winter. There is in fact a sacred holiday which bears Rama?s name--the Islamic feast known as Ramadan. The word Ramadan is a cognate of Ramazan, or san rama, meaning Holy Sun (Bayley 345). While Ramadan is officially a lunar holiday, it?s etymology shows its meaning, and its time of celebration just after the fall equinox makes a conclusive connection to its solar origin. Ramadan is celebrated on the first new moon after the fall equinox when the fertile earth (fertilized by the sun) has been harvested and its bounty will succor the people?s journey into winter.
Bayley, Harold. Lost Language of Symbolism, Volumes 1 and 2. Whitefish, Montana Kessinger Publishing Company, 1912.
taken from - http//www.cosmosandlogos.com
Salaam alaikum brother,
Have a look here at Ayman's post where he acknowledges flaws in the available tools
There is no proof. In fact, quite the opposite, there is plenty of proof that Classical Arabic dictionaries are full of errors and misclassifications. This is why, like any tool, one needs to understand their limitations and biases and use them intelligently and not blindly. One way to use them is to figure out the etymology, which indicates the older meaning that the other meanings were derived from.. Reply #856 on April 22, 2009, 100352 PM ?page 58( When I took the above approach (underlined) to figure out the month etymology, no one pays heed brickwall
Page 81 Since Urdu is nearest to Arabic culturally so let me start with Urdu "Mahina", also called "Mah" and moon too is called "Mah"(Mahjabeen) in Swedish, the word for month is M?nad (from M?ne=moon) in Icelandic M?nu? (from M?ni=moon) this knowledge was from native language speakers and then *
I backed it up with http//en.wiktionary.org/wiki/month
*Middle English < Old English mna? < Proto-Germanic *mn?- < Proto-Indo-European *me(n)ses- (moon, month), probably from PIE base *m?- (to measure), referring to the moon?s phases as the measure of time. Cognate with moon..So maybe you can assist us with your knowledge of Arabic if month in Arabic culture is the equivalent of moon too.
Best regards
farida
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Salam Farida,
from the way I was brought up, I have as long as I can remember associated twelve months with a solar year,
with the role of the moon to help in subdividing the year into weeks, this is my archetypal programing if you want to call it.
as for etymology it will be better to look into Hebrew, Aramaic, and semitic roots.
by the way when i wrote about lacking resources, i meant proper resources, like government and institutions resources.
I feel envious that so much money is being poured into finding out about the history of ancient Egypt, but nothing much
in the early life of the Prophet Mohamed and the early believers. Look, every time we hear about new discoveries being made
shedding new light on the ways and structures of life of middle ages European communities, scientists keep finding out
that they did not always get their assumptions right even for events that happened not so long ago.
So now, why are the Arabs not curious about hard facts on the life of the people who participated in bringing them
the belief system they claim to be following.
The fact is of course that they probably do not want to know, they want to follow what they fancy, not what they will find
out which will be the truth (most probably unpleasant to leaders), and I guarantee you that a lot of relics have been destroyed just for the purpose not to allow for what is real to be known.
Surely like other cover ups...
Now you can carry on wasting your time arguing with and attacking Ayman, it is a choice, but in the grand scheme of (divine) things, no one can and will rush Allah especially if one follows the wrong course.
If Ayman is right, and the time is right, his view will be espoused.
Look at all the sectarians fighting, they all think they are right, but where are they? and who knows, the Jews might decide to honour the Covenant The God made with them, and they then will be the enlightened ones.
So please do not let that question of unity bother you, unity of what, behind a month? are you serious?
Any unity on unsound foundation (i.e. e.g. based on falsehood) is bound to perish.1331 And if there had been a Qur'?n with which mountains could be moved (from their places), or the earth
could be cloven asunder, or the dead could be made to speak (it would not have been other than this
Qur'?n). But the decision of all things is certainly with All?h. Have not then those who believe yet
known that had All?h willed, He could have guided all mankind? And a disaster will not cease to strike
those who disbelieve because of their (evil) deeds or it (i.e. the disaster) settle close to their homes,
until the Promise of All?h comes to pass. Certainly, All?h does not fail in His Promise.4153 We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to
them that this (the Qur'?n) is the truth. Is it not sufficient in regard to your Lord that He is a Witness
over all things? -
Peace NunHolidayPseudoEidRex ,
Absolute top 10 dumbest post ever..LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
quran = she = ????????
Could someone please answer him, i can't stop myself laughin.. laugh laugh laughi'll come back later , once i stop
Do you understand the OR function what it means?
72
A Book was descended to you so no strain be in your chest from it, to warn with it and a remembrance to the believers.7431
she is not except male/masculine (according to Ayman)
OR
it is not except a remembrance to the human
What you are laughing at is Ayman ascribing a gender to genderless objects which go by different names.
Quote from ayman on Yesterday at 073711 AM
The word "quran" is masculine while " " in 7431 is feminine (referring to the feminine "saqar"Here is the correct rendering of the end of 7431....
it is (i.e. Qur'an) not except a remembrance to the human
It is, the examples and things stated prior to above is Qur'an (i.e. the remembrance/reminder).
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Salam Farida,
from the way I was brought up, I have as long as I can remember associated twelve months with a solar year,
with the role of the moon to help in subdividing the year into weeks, this is my archetypal programing if you want to call it.
as for etymology it will be better to look into Hebrew, Aramaic, and semitic roots.Salaam alaikum brother,
So I was knocking at the wrong door, no problem.
So now, why are the Arabs not curious about hard facts on the life of the people who participated in bringing them
the belief system they claim to be following.
The fact is of course that they probably do not want to know, they want to follow what they fancy, not what they will find
out which will be the truth (most probably unpleasant to leaders), and I guarantee you that a lot of relics have been destroyed just for the purpose not to allow for what is real to be known.
Surely like other cover ups...You envy and worry about Arabs, but to one who wants hard facts you say
Now you can carry on wasting your time arguing with and attacking Ayman, it is a choice, but in the grand scheme of (divine) things, no one can and will rush Allah especially if one follows the wrong course.
Now that's not fair brother. Why should only the Arabs be curious and not me and God will see to Ayman and we feel envious about money is being poured into finding out about the history of ancient Egyp other than that we should do nothing just sit back?
If Ayman is right, and the time is right, his view will be espoused.
I am sure both will be eroded in the grand scheme as many nations have been destroyed and many, similar to Ayman, have disappeared into thin air.
Look at all the sectarians fighting, they all think they are right, but where are they? and who knows, the Jews might decide to honour the Covenant The God made with them, and they then will be the enlightened ones
Dear brother the reason we are in this miserable state is that, from among all three faiths God took a covenant, none is honouring that so who ever, from among these faiths, honours the Covenant will be of the enlightened ones.
So please do not let that question of unity bother you, unity of what, behind a month? are you serious?
Now brother I can't take your advice because you have one rule for Arabs and another for me. So yes I am very serious about the unity behind the month of Ramadan.
Any unity on unsound foundation (i.e. e.g. based on falsehood) is bound to perish.
Absolutely!
I do not expect any further response from you as we are obviously on different platforms.
Good luck
Farida
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Do you understand the OR function what it means?
What you are laughing at is Ayman ascribing a gender to genderless objects which go by different names.
Quote from ayman on Yesterday at 073711 AM
The word "quran" is masculine while " " in 7431 is feminine (referring to the feminine "saqar"Here is the correct rendering of the end of 7431....
it is (i.e. Qur'an) not except a remembrance to the human
It is, the examples and things stated prior to above is Qur'an (i.e. the remembrance/reminder).
Salaam Eid
First In Arabic there is nothing called "genderless noun". Some nouns may have either gender, and they are very few and well known. Also, in Arabic there is no equivalent to "it". There are only two pronouns "literally" he and she.Secondly is remembrance not reminder;and it is a feminine noun. Reminder is and it is a masculine noun; as in ( ).
Accordingly, ( /it is but ) refers to a feminine noun. Quraan is not a feminine noun, but masculine.Therefore, this (it's but) cannot refer to it. -
Peace sister Samia,
Salaam Eid
First In Arabic there is nothing called "genderless noun". Some nouns may have either gender, and they are very few and well known. Also, in Arabic there is no equivalent to "it". There are only two pronouns "literally" he and she.
Secondly is remembrance not reminder;and it is a feminine noun. Reminder is and it is a masculine noun; as in ( ).
Accordingly, ( /it is but ) refers to a feminine noun. Quraan is not a feminine noun, but masculine.Therefore, this (it's but) cannot refer to it.Before I respond to previous posts chronologically, let me add a small comment to your thoughtful reply. I think what confused Eid is that he assumed that there must be gender agreement between "zikra" and what it describes. There is no such gender agreement in Arabic. Same structure here
Literal The man (masculine) he (masculine) a role model (feminine) for his (masculine) son.
This is not an advice just for Eid but for everyone, we should all be careful and avoid knee-jerk kind responses against things that are unfamiliar to us and instead try to reason and learn patiently.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace theNabster,
and thank you for the distinction between ramad and ramadh. my "arabic" has become very rusty as i rarely use it for apart from reading the Quran, my two main other languages being french and english. It is sad because as I said I was brought up among people who spoke pristine sahraoui arabic (also known as sharif arabic in north africa).
Indeed I followed the development of your ideas since I joined free-minds since 2003.
In fact joining free-mind was as a result of a prayer to The God from me.
I have been very lucky though because I never felt an urge to study or get near the hadith.
To summarise, I think in my opinion you are very close to the correct answer regarding the positioning of Ramadan,
and the way the months fall into place when The Prophet realigned them onto a luni-solar calendar which
they were not following, however, since they (the Arab conspirators) pushed the birth of The Prophet a few decades
forward (2 or more), they argued the opposite and said that The Prophet actually re-instated a pure lunar calendar.I don't think that the prophet did anything with any calendar. All calendars are manmade. On the other hand, the god provided us with clear cosmic indicators for timing. For the hunting restriction, much like they do today (by assigning Rajab 6 months later), the rejecters alternatively postponed the hunting restriction and didn't have it as continuous. In fact, the rejecters today are even worse than the rejecters of the past. Not only they postpone part of the hunting restriction for 6 months every year (instead of every other year), they also make it float within the year. So they have essentially abrogated the hunting restriction.
The pushing of the date of birth of the prophet was not the result of a conspiracy. It was a result of the natural law of supply and demand. When people abandoned the great reading the demand for traditions and Hadiths that supposedly went back to the prophet greatly increased. This is why many of the Hadith narrators supposedly lived well over a hundred years. They had to be given an incredibly long life by subsequent generations so that the chains of hearsay would reach the prophet. Those same supply and demand forces would also naturally result in the date of birth of the prophet and the entire history of revelation being pushed forward. We actually have physical evidence that the traditional dates are false. Traditionalists contend that the prophet was born in 570CE and his birth year coincided with the year of Abraha?s expedition into Arabia. Fortunately, we have the famous Abraha inscription commemorating his expedition into Arabia. See
http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/e_pre-islamic/fig04_sabaean.htm
The date on the inscription translates into 552CE. This is 18 years prior to the traditional dating. So your intuitive assessment of 2 decades is very close. In all likelihood, Umar and all the so-called Sahaba never met the prophet.
I do believe that the lunar calendar was instated after the death of the prophet as an act of reversal into idolatry (Moon God connection), akin to the other pagan customs such as the Cube and black stone and pagan rituals in Makkah...
I think that the institution of the lunar calendar was a result of integrating Jewish traditions with pagan traditions of moon reverence. In the Jewish calendar when to do the intercalation was decided by the Rabbinical religious authorities. The Jewish leadership was not going to give up this power and so the best compromise that ensured there was no competition on when to intercalate was for the empire to adopt a lunar calendar without intercalation. This way the Jewish authorities can keep intercalating whenever they felt like it while the Jewish and Islamic months would start and end simultaneously and only the mapping of their names would float.
It is interesting that, as Herbman noted, the start of the new Umar calendar precisely coincides with when the first new moon crescent after the summer solstice was visible. So this pinpoints the point of initial corruption and further confirms the fact that before the corruption the summer solstice marked the start of the year.
Makkah existed, but it certainly was not the Makkah of today, it was Petra (Petra is a roman name, it is a nabatean/arabic town, so what was its arabic name?), and it is referred to in the Quran.
Mekkah didn?t exist. The word ?mekkah? is clearly a common noun that means ?destruction? and not the name of any town
YUSUFALI
4824. And it is He Who has restrained their hands from you and your hands from them in the midst of Mekkah after that He gave you the victory over them. And Allah sees well all that ye do.Should be translated as
- And it is He Who has restrained their hands from you and your hands from them in the midst of destruction after that He gave you the victory over them. And Allah sees well all that ye do.
Jerusalem contains the Ka'aba.
The word ?al-ka?ba? is another common noun that should be translated. The term is commonly used in Arabia in expressions like ?ka?b al-wadi? (the base of the valley) so it simply means ?the base?.
The location of the house is clearly specified in 2226 and it is not so-called Makkah or Jerusalem.
It all fits as part of the conspiracy, so for those who are worried about Lunar Ramadan being destroyed, we have no foundation to start with, apart from the Quran that is, so what are you on about?
The arbitrary sectarian calendar is already destroyed
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Even its staunchest defenders on this thread do not use it for any practical purpose in their daily lives. So it is empirically proven to be the calendar of the hypocrites.
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Moreover, its existence is 100% dependent on people as even they admit. If the rulers of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia, Morocco and a few other so-called Islamic countries decided that now Shaaban would be called Ramadhan and the majority agrees then this is what will happen. So it is 100% dependent on humans and their arbitrary decisions. On the other hand, with or without humans the summer solstice will take place. Similarly, with or without humans the scorching full-moon after the solstice will follow a low path across the horizon and thus will appear reddish in color and hint to the coming of the hottest time of the year will take place.
May The God make us Peace Makers and Reasonable in our endeavours and not shirk from the Truth even if we think it is painful.
May the god have mercy on us.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Guest,
First I thank you for providing the tip on pasting image on this post. Thanks!
You are most welcome.
Let?s analyze the contradictions in this one simple sentence of Ayman.
The full moon around summer solstice is not special...There is no need to waste my time or your time or the reader time on this. I would suggest that you and anyone else who has doubts to do a Google search on full-moon illusion that happens around the summer solstice and the reason why it is more reddish in color than the other full-moons.
Ayman, it is your job to defend your theory. You shouldn?t be asking us any questions rather telling us how 2189 justifies your theory. This is bad logic.
You are free not to question anything and blindly accept manmade falsehood. The reason for this theory is that I questioned the dumb and arbitrary traditional calendar and tried to find the answer by studying the great reading. In fact, everyone who studied this subject did so because of questioning the traditional calendar. If the traditional calendar was unquestionable then no one would bother to study this subject.
Clearly the verse 2189 says that the moon is the timing device and NOT THE SUN. Thus, we have lunar timing for Hajj and counting years.
I don't agree with your translation but will use it to disprove your theory.
Commonsense would dictate that start of the moon (new moon crescent) trigger the Hajj event and ends in crescent moon. Begin Hajj with beginning moon. Can it get any simpler than that?Unlike some others on this thread, thank you for honestly admitting that the start of the sectarian timing for Hajj according to their calendar on 8th of Dhu Al-Hijjah (not with the new moon crescent as you say) and its end on the 13th of Dhu-Alhijjah (not with the crescent moon) is 100% false and arbitrary.
You are beating around the bush when you go from full moon (not a crescent moon) to another stage of the moon. Full moon is not considered crescent moon thus you are violating your own definition. Your concept is equivalent to entering a house from back door because the full moon is going back to its new moon stage again. Please stop disobeying the God?s commandments.
It is you who is beating around the bush. Your theory of starting the ?hajj? with the new moon crescent and ending it with the waning crescent results in ?hajj? lasting for 25 days. When you think of the front door do you think of something clear and apparent or of something hidden and dim? Which is the one that is hidden and dim, the front door or the back door? The full moon or the new moon?
Here is a tip for you the moon is a closed loop system and the sun is a closed loop system. It is impossible to bring them together which you are attempting to do, foolishly. It is not like an electronic circuit in which you can couple energy from one loop to create another loop that is in synch with the other. You don?t have that flexibility here. An analogy that fit well is you have one foot on moon another feet on sun and forcing them to synch. And this is unwise and dangerous.
Tell this to the god who designed this system. You choose to ignore it and instead follow an arbitrary and completely useless manmade timing system that you hypocritically don?t follow for any practical purposes. Thus, for any practical purpose such as the timing for when you plant crops or when you go to the beach or when you put on your heavy clothes or when the harvest takes place you follow the god?s natural timing. Willingly or unwillingly everyone will obey the god. The difference is that I do it willingly while you do it unwillingly.
Peace,
Ayman
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Salam Farida,
if you happen to take too much caffeine, you need to ease up on it, lol...
the arabs have a big responsibility because the Quran was revealed in their mother tongue, they like it or not,
so they will be doubly accountable, so it is not an enviable position to be in, and for those of them who are rich,
do not think Allah has made them rich because of their origin, but to test them and give them a chance to come back
or finish in ignominy.
Yes the Quran did single out the Arabs, read here997 The pagan Arabs are the worst in disbelief and hypocrisy, and more likely to be in ignorance of the
limits (All?h's Commandments and His Legal Laws, etc.) which All?h has revealed to His
Messenger. And All?h is All-Knower, All-Wise.now are you envious of this lot?
but the realm between Yathrib/Medinah and Petra/Jerusalem contain remnants, relics, forensic evidence that could shed
a lot of light into what we are looking for.
There are universities who get funding to do these things, but they do focus on what they want to find out, just check out e.g.
http//www.brown.edu/Departments/Joukowsky_Institute/Petra/now please kindly stop being a drama queen, let us be impartial adults and let not our emotions overtake our spirit, and be truthful
why are you so enraged at Ayman? is it because you perceive he put you down, or for defending the current status quo?
I have my deep disagreements with Ayman and other people, but that does not mean that I completely close the possibility that I might be wrong somewhere.
Here is an example, I do not understand or relate to his interpretation of Jinns, I read his explanations, and I find them fully unsatisfactory, so that is that, nothing more and nothing less.
There is no point in allowing rampant emotions in, matter of fact this is why among other things "muslims" are in such a mighty mess, they are far too emotional, and when it comes with some areas they are entrenched in, one cannot reason with many of them.
If I were Ayman I will lay it to rest too, he made his point, he should leave it to Allah to make the final judgment. Decisions, Prayers, Wishes, Actions, take time to bring things to fruition and we have beautiful examples in the Quran (my favourite one is Joseph, imagine spending years away from his family, then big tribulations when he reaches his twenties (maybe) then 12 years or more in jail, and then more years pass before he is finally re-united with his family and his treacherous brothers (who by the way are all prophets!).
I think a story like this make our little fights much in perspective.
God bless.
and our last prayer is Praise be to Allah the Lord of the Worlds! -
Peace Rami,
I don't understand a logical absurdity in this thread. That is if Aymans theory is false, the traditional theory becomes true.
The question remains, why is Ramadan the ninth month of the count and when does your count begin? When is the beginning of the year?If you go back to the year 01/01/01 of the sectarian era you will see that it began right after the summer solstice.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Vivek
Why is it 10 days? Why not exactly one day?
Is it because the full-moon appears so for about 10 days to our sight?
Isn't full-moon only for a single day scientifically?
Why is it 3-10 days but not from the 1st day of the full-moon?Because we are told that the abstinence is for a complete count of a few (3-10) days. The complete count of 3-10 is 10. Also, we are told in 2189 that the crescents are used as timing devices. The time from full-moon to the waning crescent is 10 days. This is the only way that a crescent can be used to time a 10 day period (also for "hajj", which we know it 10 days according to the great reading).
Not only traditional Islam but also major religions(Hinduism, Judaism, Taoism,etc) followed lunar calendar. The solar calendar system is purely a christian concept which all of humanity follow now. Though the Quran mentions both the sun and moon as pointers to the time, considering that all other religions followed lunar calendar, why can't we conclude that Islam too in the time of Muhammad used purely a lunar calendar having nothing to do with solar cycles? I ask this question because I believe all such religions as the revealed ones like Islam and value them all at par.
The question is not about calendars. All calendars are manmade. The god and all his creation use universal timing based on clear cosmic phenomena. Even humans who advocate a purely lunar calendar follow the god?s natural timing based on 1712 and 105 etc. whether they like it or not. If we agree that the great reading points to both the sun and the moon for timing then this is what must be, especially since this is confirmed by empirically verifiable reality.
Got to go catch a plane will reply to others later.
Peace,
Ayman
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Salam Farida,
if you happen to take too much caffeine, you need to ease up on it, lol...Salaam,
That's what I said earlier, the orginal members always come up to derail the subject lol...
the arabs have a big responsibility because the Quran was revealed in their mother tongue, they like it or not,
so they will be doubly accountable, so it is not an enviable position to be in, and for those of them who are rich,
do not think Allah has made them rich because of their origin, but to test them and give them a chance to come back
or finish in ignominyWe all have a responsiblity and you may think they are RICH but, to me they are the poorest of the poor.
Yes the Quran did single out the Arabs, read here
997 The pagan Arabs are the worst in disbelief and hypocrisy, and more likely to be in ignorance of the
limits (All?h's Commandments and His Legal Laws, etc.) which All?h has revealed to His
Messenger. And All?h is All-Knower, All-Wise.We have quite a few of them on this thread who do nothing but boast about being Arab.
now are you envious of this lot?
but the realm between Yathrib/Medinah and Petra/Jerusalem contain remnants, relics, forensic evidence that could shed
a lot of light into what we are looking for.
There are universities who get funding to do these things, but they do focus on what they want to find out, just check out e.g.
http//www.brown.edu/Departments/Joukowsky_Institute/Petra/now please kindly stop being a drama queen, let us be impartial adults and let not our emotions overtake our spirit, and be truthful
why are you so enraged at Ayman? is it because you perceive he put you down, or for defending the current status quo?
I have my deep disagreements with Ayman and other people, but that does not mean that I completely close the possibility that I might be wrong somewhere.
Here is an example, I do not understand or relate to his interpretation of Jinns, I read his explanations, and I find them fully unsatisfactory, so that is that, nothing more and nothing less.
There is no point in allowing rampant emotions in, matter of fact this is why among other things "muslims" are in such a mighty mess, they are far too emotional, and when it comes with some areas they are entrenched in, one cannot reason with many of them.
If I were Ayman I will lay it to rest too, he made his point, he should leave it to Allah to make the final judgment. Decisions, Prayers, Wishes, Actions, take time to bring things to fruition and we have beautiful examples in the Quran (my favourite one is Joseph, imagine spending years away from his family, then big tribulations when he reaches his twenties (maybe) then 12 years or more in jail, and then more years pass before he is finally re-united with his family and his treacherous brothers (who by the way are all prophets!).
I think a story like this make our little fights much in perspective.offtopic ignore
God bless.and our last prayer is Praise be to Allah the Lord of the Worlds!
handshake
peace
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Salaam Samia,
No Samia there is a lot of new stuff on this thread. Ayman?s Mantra having put people like you off is another matter. But the thread is turning into a black hole and, as a result, all the hard work by the other contributors is being swallowed up. It has now come to a stage where I have to give page link as a reference for my posts to draw attention to our hard work.
Salaam farida
As I explained, I was following the thread closely,aka reading, albeit not participating.What new opinions were there? I was not talking about new posts nor new posters. And I was definitely not put off by Ayman's posts.Salaam Samia,
.I feel so honoured that you like my rendition, however, if only you had paid attention to the top part of my post, you would have noticed that it cited 936 ?The count of the months with God is twelve months in God's record.?
I?m surprised that this part of my post did not interest you, despite the fact that this is the core of our belief, when it comes to count in the eyes of God as you rightly said that God does not care what "our year. Therefore no adding or skipping just count 12 *shahr/moon/month,.
*Month Etymology -Reply #1213 on August 27, 2009, 042925 PM page 81 I am sure this too was unnoticed by youThe pleasure is mine )
However, it seems you did not understand my post. I liked your rendition on "sana" and "3aam" as defined by natural events (harvest and flood) not name nor number of days. Same for day (sun/sunrise-sunset - darkness), again no name or number of hours.Then suddenly a month with a name and anumber of days? Only one month? Why didn't we have the name of the month of hajj.Etymology was of course noticed by me and I think you mentioned it in more than a post.
Even the etymology of month starts with the noun "moon" not crescent.The "th" serves as "relative to/ related to" as in "sixth" for example. It did not start with "crescent", so, as in Arabic, it has nothing to do with crescent nor with number of days.No offence Samia but, unlike you, I have little interest these hadiths, however if you like to get your hand on a hadith driven dossier, introduced to us by a very interesting character, quickduck, who was trying to convince us (failing miserably) that , the order of months, as per his understanding, has never been always the same. Get your hands on this find on page 84 quickduck?s Reply #1246 on August 28, 2009, 075503 PM I am sure you would love this findings.
As always it?s great to hear from you.Now it's my turn! You definitely haven't read my post following the one you are quoting almost immediately
Of course you find in "Islamic" literature the story and its opposite. So here is another story about the Islamic calender
It's said that the Islamic calender was set much earlier, from the first year the prophet immigrated, and so it was logical that he started it with "rabee3 -ul-awal first grazing", but Omar changed it to make it start with "mu7arram the restricted month".
In my opinion
Both stories are baseless, and they are just there to give credit to the whole fiasco of a lunar "Islamic" year. Otherwise, if the firs khalif could change the beginning of a calender, thus moving the time of fasting, how much manipulation took place in this calender?
And should we trust it, or trust God and search in His book?But anyway, I am glad we agree on rejecting hadith and unverified stories. However, my question is How can you prove that a month called Ramadan is what God is talking about? Where did you get it when it was never mentioned in any of the previous scriptures, nor had any other "month" been mentioned before,nor do we have any more information abou its position in the year,its number of days...?
Why would a people call a month (scorching) when it's as scorching as well as cold as any other month?I just hope that you honestly try to give it a little thought Why are we in a mess every year because no one is able to see the "crescent"? Also think of the night the quraan was descended.The time we are supposed to fast was mainly chosen for this event why start fasting a couple or triple of weeks earlier,and then just guess, if we even think about it, which night is that one better than a thousand moons? Traditioalists do not know it nor care about it tenth as much as they care about the "month of Ramadan". And most of all, why would God link the hajj with crescents and not fasting, yet traditionalists, and unfortunately you, link fasting to crescents and not hajj? You are a lawyer and I expect from a lawyer to start from uncertainty, and work their way forward, not the other way round.
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Salaam Samia,
Salaam Eid
First In Arabic there is nothing called "genderless noun". Some nouns may have either gender, and they are very few and well known. Also, in Arabic there is no equivalent to "it". There are only two pronouns "literally" he and she.Secondly is remembrance not reminder;and it is a feminine noun. Reminder is and it is a masculine noun; as in ( ).
Accordingly, ( /it is but ) refers to a feminine noun. Quraan is not a feminine noun, but masculine.Therefore, this (it's but) cannot refer to it.Then apply it consistently for every word that refers to Qur'an, are these all masculine?
- Kitab Scripture 432/442
- Qur?an 5677
- Kalam Word 96
- Nur Light 4174
- Huda Guidance 1057/3132
- Rahma Mercy 1057/1058
- Furqan The Criterion (of right and wrong) 251
- Shifa? Healing 1782
- Maw?iza Exhortation 1057
- Dhikr Reminder 2150
- Karim Noble 5677
- ?Ali Sublime 4341
- Hikma Wisdom 545
- Hakim Wise 102
- Muhaiman Watcher (i.e., over the previous Scriptures) 548
- Mubarak Blessed 3830
- Habl Cable (i.e., Allah?s) 3103
- as-Sirat al-Mustaqim Straight Path 6153
- al-Qiyyam Straight 182
- Fasl Conclusive 8613
- Naba? Azim The Awful Tidings 782
- Ahsan al-Hadith The Fairest of Statements 3923
- Tanzil Revelation 26192
- Ruh Spirit 4252
- Wahy Inspiration 2145
- al-Mathani The Oft-Repeated (verses) 1587
- ?Arabi Arabic 3928
- Qawl Word 2851
- Basa?ir Clear Indications 4520
- Bayan Declaration 3138
- ?Ilm Knowledge 1337
- Haqq True 362
- al-Hadi Guide 179
- ?Ajab Marvelous 721
- Tadhkira Admonishment 7454
- al-?Urwa al-Wuthqa The Firm Hand-Hold 3122
- Mutashabih Consistent 3923
- Sidq The Truth 3933
- ?Adl Justice 6115
- Iman Faith 3192
- Amr Commandment 655
- Bushra Good Tidings 272
- Majid Glorious 8521
- Zabur Scripture 21105
- Mubin That which maketh plain 121
- Bashir Good Tidings 414
- Nadhir Warning 414
- ?Aziz Unassailable 4141
- Balagh Clear Message 1452
- Qassas Narratives 123
- Suhuf Leaves 8013
- Mukarrama Honored 8013
- Marfu?a Exalted 8014
- Mutahhara Purified 8014
- Qawl Word
Peace Ayman,
Before I respond to previous posts chronologically, let me add a small comment to your thoughtful reply. I think what confused Eid is that he assumed that there must be gender agreement between "zikra" and what it describes. There is no such gender agreement in Arabic. Same structure here
Literal The man (masculine) he (masculine) a role model (feminine) for his (masculine) son.
This is not an advice just for Eid but for everyone, we should all be careful and avoid knee-jerk kind responses against things that are unfamiliar to us and instead try to reason and learn patiently.
The point to this pointless exercise is you avoiding to answer how to fast a full-moon.
2183 Ya ayyuha allatheena amanookutiba AAalaykumu alssiyamu
O you those who believe, it is dictated on you the fasting.2184 waAAala allatheena yuteeqoonahu
?and on those who endure it -- obviously refers back to the fasting.2185 faman shahida minkumu alshshahra falyasumhu
?so who witnessed from you the month, so he should fast it?While you have it as?
?.so who witnessed from you the full moon, so he should abstain, the abstinence.So yeah a double negative, if your vision is good, you are outdoors in clear weather lucky to see the full moon then avoid the fasting.
Likewise apply what was asked in the prior post...
583-4
And those who declare their wives as forbidden for them as their mothers
so freeing a neck from before that they touch each other
And he who finds not must do the abstinence two successive full-moons before they both touch each other
And he who is unable to do so should feed sixty poorThe abstinence two successive full-moons means wait until next 98%, 99%, 100% full moon then fast to next non-identifiable 98%, 99%, 100% full moon which is about a month +/- a few days for error.
Therefore, the abstinence of one full-moon is ZERO days!
- Does he commence fasting? YES!
- Can he sleep with his wife until the next full moon? NO!
- Does feeding 60 poor equate to two months fasting? YES!
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Peace Ayman,
In all likelihood, Umar and all the so-called Sahaba never met the prophet.
False! Read history, PERF 558, and inscription in 24 AH
http//dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/11/18/islamic-inscription.html
It is interesting that, as Herbman noted, the start of the new Umar calendar precisely coincides with when the first new moon crescent after the summer solstice was visible. So this pinpoints the point of initial corruption and further confirms the fact that before the corruption the summer solstice marked the start of the year.
This has ZERO to with it; summer solstice happened in the 12th month Dhu al-Hijjah in that year which was the year of the migration and the 1st month Muharram happened on July 16 that year.
It has already been shown you that if you roll back PERF 558 only 10 years after the prophet (pbuh) left using new moon data the precise date of the start of new era which aligns perfectly with historical dates.
They knew the months (well known) and could have chosen the 1st month in any year to start the era; e.g. if they picked the year of PERF 558 then our friend would have written year 1 AH instead of year 22 which shows they used a lunar calendar at the time and obliterates the hot moon...
New Moon Date (start new month 2 days later)
1/17/622 7. Rajab
16-Feb 8. Sha'aban
18-Mar 9. Ramadan
16-Apr 10. Shawwal
16-May 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
14-Jun 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
14-Jul 1. Muharram begins 7/16
12-Aug 2. Safar Sept 9 (26 Safar AH 1) Hijra
11-Sep 3. Rabi' al-awwal
10-Oct 4. Rabi' al-thani
8-Nov 5. Jumada al-awwal
8-Dec 6. Jumada al-thani
1/6/623 7. Rajab
5-Feb 8. Sha'aban
7-Mar 9. Ramadan
5-Apr 10. Shawwal
5-May 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
4-Jun 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
3-Jul 1. Muharram 2 AH
2-Aug 2. Safar
31-Aug 3. Rabi' al-awwal
30-Sep 4. Rabi' al-thani
29-Oct 5. Jumada al-awwal
28-Nov 6. Jumada al-thani
27-Dec 7. Rajab
1/25/624 8. Sha'aban
24-Feb 9. Ramadan March 17, 624 (17 Ramadan 2 AH) Badr Battle
24-Mar 10. Shawwal
23-Apr 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
23-May 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
21-Jun 1. Muharram 3 AH
21-Jul 2. Safar
20-Aug 3. Rabi' al-awwal
18-Sep 4. Rabi' al-thani
18-Oct 5. Jumada al-awwal
16-Nov 6. Jumada al-thani
16-Dec 7. Rajab
1/14/625 8. Sha'aban
13-Feb 9. Ramadan
14-Mar 10. Shawwal March 19, 625 (3 Shawwal 3 AH) Battle of Uhud
12-Apr 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
12-May 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
10-Jun 1. Muharram 4 AH
10-Jul 2. Safar
9-Aug 3. Rabi' al-awwal
7-Sep 4. Rabi' al-thani
7-Oct 5. Jumada al-awwal
6-Nov 6. Jumada al-thani
5-Dec 7. Rajab
1/4/626 8. Sha'aban
2-Feb 9. Ramadan
4-Mar 10. Shawwal
2-Apr 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
1-May 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
31-May 1. Muharram 5 AH
29-Jun 2. Safar
29-Jul 3. Rabi' al-awwal
27-Aug 4. Rabi' al-thani
26-Sep 5. Jumada al-awwal
26-Oct 6. Jumada al-thani
25-Nov 7. Rajab
24-Dec 8. Sha'aban
1/23/627 9. Ramadan
21-Feb 10. Shawwal
23-Mar 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
21-Apr 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
20-May 1. Muharram 6 AH
19-Jun 2. Safar
18-Jul 3. Rabi' al-awwal
16-Aug 4. Rabi' al-thani
15-Sep 5. Jumada al-awwal
15-Oct 6. Jumada al-thani
14-Nov 7. Rajab
13-Dec 8. Sha'aban
1/12/628 9. Ramadan
11-Feb 10. Shawwal
11-Mar 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
10-Apr 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
9-May 1. Muharram 7 AH
7-Jun 2. Safar
7-Jul 3. Rabi' al-awwal
5-Aug 4. Rabi' al-thani
3-Sep 5. Jumada al-awwal
3-Oct 6. Jumada al-thani
2-Nov 7. Rajab
1-Dec 8. Sha'aban
31-Dec 9. Ramadan
1/30/629 10. Shawwal
1-Mar 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
30-Mar 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
29-Apr 1. Muharram 8 AH
28-May 2. Safar
26-Jun 3. Rabi' al-awwal
26-Jul 4. Rabi' al-thani
24-Aug 5. Jumada al-awwal
22-Sep 6. Jumada al-thani
22-Oct 7. Rajab
20-Nov 8. Sha'aban
20-Dec 9. Ramadan
1/19/630 10. Shawwal
18-Feb 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
19-Mar 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
18-Apr 1. Muharram 9 AH
17-May 2. Safar
16-Jun 3. Rabi' al-awwal
15-Jul 4. Rabi' al-thani
14-Aug 5. Jumada al-awwal
12-Sep 6. Jumada al-thani
11-Oct 7. Rajab
10-Nov 8. Sha'aban
9-Dec 9. Ramadan
1/8/631 10. Shawwal
7-Feb 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
8-Mar 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
7-Apr 1. Muharram 10 AH
7-May 2. Safar
5-Jun 3. Rabi' al-awwal
5-Jul 4. Rabi' al-thani
3-Aug 5. Jumada al-awwal
2-Sep 6. Jumada al-thani
1-Oct 7. Rajab
30-Oct 8. Sha'aban
29-Nov 9. Ramadan
28-Dec 10. Shawwal
1/27/632 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
25-Feb 12. Dhu al-Hijjah Prophet's final sermon 9th of Dhu al-Hijjah, 10 AH
26-Mar 1. Muharram 11 AH
25-Apr 2. Safar
24-May 3. Rabi' al-awwal 8 June (12 of Rabi? al-Awwal, 11 AH) prophet left (pbuh)
23-Jun 4. Rabi' al-thani
23-Jul 5. Jumada al-awwal
21-Aug 6. Jumada al-thani
20-Sep 7. Rajab
19-Oct 8. Sha'aban
17-Nov 9. Ramadan
17-Dec 10. Shawwal
1/15/633 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
14-Feb 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
15-Mar 1. Muharram 12 AH
14-Apr 2. Safar
13-May 3. Rabi' al-awwal
12-Jun 4. Rabi' al-thani
12-Jul 5. Jumada al-awwal
10-Aug 6. Jumada al-thani
9-Sep 7. Rajab
9-Oct 8. Sha'aban
7-Nov 9. Ramadan
7-Dec 10. Shawwal
1/5/634 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
4-Feb 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
5-Mar 1. Muharram 13 AH
3-Apr 2. Safar
3-May 3. Rabi' al-awwal
1-Jun 4. Rabi' al-thani
1-Jul 5. Jumada al-awwal
30-Jul 6. Jumada al-thani
29-Aug 7. Rajab
28-Sep 8. Sha'aban
27-Oct 9. Ramadan
26-Nov 10. Shawwal
26-Dec 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
1/24/635 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
23-Feb 1. Muharram 14 AH
24-Mar 2. Safar
22-Apr 3. Rabi' al-awwal
22-May 4. Rabi' al-thani
20-Jun 5. Jumada al-awwal
19-Jul 6. Jumada al-thani
18-Aug 7. Rajab
17-Sep 8. Sha'aban
17-Oct 9. Ramadan
15-Nov 10. Shawwal
15-Dec 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
1/14/636 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
12-Feb 1. Muharram 15 AH
13-Mar 2. Safar
11-Apr 3. Rabi' al-awwal
10-May 4. Rabi' al-thani
9-Jun 5. Jumada al-awwal
8-Jul 6. Jumada al-thani
6-Aug 7. Rajab
5-Sep 8. Sha'aban
5-Oct 9. Ramadan
3-Nov 10. Shawwal
3-Dec 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
1/2/637 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
1-Feb 1. Muharram 16 AH
2-Mar 2. Safar
1-Apr 3. Rabi' al-awwal
30-Apr 4. Rabi' al-thani
29-May 5. Jumada al-awwal
28-Jun 6. Jumada al-thani
27-Jul 7. Rajab
25-Aug 8. Sha'aban
24-Sep 9. Ramadan
23-Oct 10. Shawwal
22-Nov 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
22-Dec 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
1/21/638 1. Muharram 17 AH
19-Feb 2. Safar
21-Mar 3. Rabi' al-awwal
20-Apr 4. Rabi' al-thani
19-May 5. Jumada al-awwal
17-Jun 6. Jumada al-thani
17-Jul 7. Rajab
15-Aug 8. Sha'aban
13-Sep 9. Ramadan
13-Oct 10. Shawwal
11-Nov 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
11-Dec 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
1/10/639 1. Muharram 18 AH
8-Feb 2. Safar
10-Mar 3. Rabi' al-awwal
9-Apr 4. Rabi' al-thani
8-May 5. Jumada al-awwal
7-Jun 6. Jumada al-thani
6-Jul 7. Rajab
5-Aug 8. Sha'aban
3-Sep 9. Ramadan
2-Oct 10. Shawwal
1-Nov 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
30-Nov 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
30-Dec 1. Muharram 19 AH
1/28/640 2. Safar
27-Feb 3. Rabi' al-awwal
28-Mar 4. Rabi' al-thani
27-Apr 5. Jumada al-awwal
26-May 6. Jumada al-thani
25-Jun 7. Rajab
24-Jul 8. Sha'aban
23-Aug 9. Ramadan
21-Sep 10. Shawwal
20-Oct 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
19-Nov 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
18-Dec 1. Muharram 20 AH
1/17/641 2. Safar
15-Feb 3. Rabi' al-awwal
17-Mar 4. Rabi' al-thani
16-Apr 5. Jumada al-awwal
15-May 6. Jumada al-thani
14-Jun 7. Rajab
13-Jul 8. Sha'aban
12-Aug 9. Ramadan
11-Sep 10. Shawwal
10-Oct 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
8-Nov 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
8-Dec 1. Muharram 21 AH
1/6/642 2. Safar
5-Feb 3. Rabi' al-awwal
6-Mar 4. Rabi' al-thani
5-Apr 5. Jumada al-awwal
4-May 6. Jumada al-thani
3-Jun 7. Rajab
3-Jul 8. Sha'aban
1-Aug 9. Ramadan
31-Aug 10. Shawwal
29-Sep 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
29-Oct 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
28-Nov 1. Muharram 22 AH
27-Dec 2. Safar
1/25/643 3. Rabi' al-awwal
24-Feb 4. Rabi' al-thani
25-Mar 5. Jumada al-awwal PERF 558 last day of Jumada al-awwal 4/25
24-Apr 6. Jumada al-thani begins 4/26
23-May 7. Rajab
22-Jun 8. Sha'aban
21-Jul 9. Ramadan
20-Aug 10. Shawwal
19-Sep 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
18-Oct 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
17-Nov 1. Muharram
17-Dec 2. SafarThe above data cannot be denied and no need to lie about receiving sheep at the end of the month.
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Salaam Samia,
Then apply it consistently for every word that refers to Qur'an, are these all masculine?
Salaam Eid
You have a funny logic!
Words "attributed to quraan" are not the word "quraan" which you mentioned in your post and which I am talking about. Words referring to the quraan are attributes and have their own masculine and feminine description. They do not affect the gender of the word they are describing.
The example brought by Ayman best explains this.And you cannot be critical to my post and to Ayman's at the same time if you know what you are talking bout (or maybe that was why Ayman gave an example of a "feminine" attribute to a "masculine" word . Just as saying . In both sentences, quraan (m.s) and man (m.s) are the subject and the attributes (f.s.) are attributes to the subject. Any verb conjugation, pronoun, demonstrative pronoun...etc will follow the (m.s) subject not the feminine (f.s) attribute. In other words, you will still have to treat the phrase as a masculine singular (m.s) and use the masculine singular pronoun in these two cases.