Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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And because we are discussing a quranic understanding and quoting from the quran, and since the quran was originally revealed in arabic ( correct me if i am mistaking) ; so it make me very very very angry when someone quotes the quran with pathetic understanding due to the lack of arabic knowledge, and also the lack of the will to learn arabic.
So that's why i am proud (not of being arab but ) of being a good arabic speaker...
Salaaaaaam
Salaam
Salaaaaaam
I am in the middle of writing exactly that so look forward to "my forth coming post" ;D
peace
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Peace Ayman,
As you can see, your points are in blue, and mine are in red.Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
I never said such thing. I said it was descended in a scorching full-moon. This is the same as saying it descended in a blazing sun or a cloudy day, etc. Just like all the phases of the moon, the scorching moon is an entirely optical phenomenon.
Day = Period of time
Moon = ObjectWho are you trying to fool? You are just trying to save your 'scorching moon' theory at any cost.
Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
The great reading is about consistency. The great reading was descended in a scorching full-moon is more logical because it is consistent with the rest of the passage and other passages. For example, it is consistent with the following factsMaybe that is why the moon was split by Muhammad... the Quran was stuck in it (according to your wording).
Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
- The great reading was revealed in the night of measure (1 night not a whole month).
Are you telling me that this proves your point?
Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
3. The false understanding of ?month? creates an insurmountable logical absurdity since ?shahid? (witnessed) is in the perfect past tense so this implies that you have to witness the month and then go back in time and fast. Thus even the staunchest Sunnis admit that this passage is talking about witnessing an event (they claim to be the new moon crescent) and not a month. Rex and you can try to change the words of the passage to make it say ?witness the first day of the month? or whatever but this is not what the passage is saying.I have already explained the reason for the usage of the past tense... If you want, I'll post it again for you.
Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
This is just some ignorant crap as typical from Submission.org.Ignorant statement.
Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
The fast in the Bible is prescribed as one day and not a whole month.There are many fasts described in the Bible - either-or fallacy.
Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
If you believe in the Bible then you might as well go ahead and idolize Jesus.That's some screwed up logic you have...the above is fallacious as well, of course...
Besides, we're talking about the OT part of the Bible... Jesus didnt exist in the time when the OT was published hint hint.Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
An example of a Jewish fast is that of Taanit Bkhorot which happens on the day before the full-moon. Also, the 9th month of the Hebrew Calendar is Kislev which occurs in the November-December timeframe.Why are you switching the topic? Did the fact that the people back then - real Submitters - not your Jewish calendar people with the Mishnah and Gemerrah - used a pure lunar calendar freak you out?
Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
There is no evidence of a month called RamadanLMAO. Is this the way you prove your points and refute others' ones?
Jeremiah 369 "And it came to pass in the fifth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, in the ninth month, that they proclaimed a fast before the Lord to all the people in Jerusalem, and to all the people that came from the cities of Judah unto Jerusalem."
Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
let alone a 10 day period called RamadanWhy are you telling me this? Arent you the one promoting your lousy 10 days of fasting?
Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
I never said that it is a name so you are, as usual, building a strawman. I said that it is a common noun. The burden of proof is on you to show that there was a pre-Islamic month called Ramadan. I know you can?t prove it.The only one posting logically fallacious stuff is you. I presented my proofs to you - now it's your turn. As I can see from the above quote, you have none.
So, where is your proof of people having fasted after having witnessed 'the full moon of schorching heat'?
Have a nice Ramadan peace
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Peace Ayman,
There is no need to waste my time or your time or the reader time on this. I would suggest that you and anyone else who has doubts to do a Google search on full-moon illusion that happens around the summer solstice and the reason why it is more reddish in color than the other full-moons.
Perhaps you forgot to take a good look at the picture of December 2008 full moon I cited. You will find it reddish in color. Enough said.
You are free not to question anything and blindly accept manmade falsehood.
No, I am asking you good and intelligent questions. But you are the one who is asking irrelevant and poor questions. You have created a fictitious problem and an imaginary solution. The house you created is worst than that of the spider house.
Unlike some others on this thread, thank you for honestly admitting that the start of the sectarian timing for Hajj according to their calendar on 8th of Dhu Al-Hijjah (not with the new moon crescent as you say) and its end on the 13th of Dhu-Alhijjah (not with the crescent moon) is 100% false and arbitrary.
I am in agreement with the 8th Dhu Al-Hijj. The point I was trying to make with the new moon crescent is the front door vs. the back door. The new moon looks like this ----) which is easily mapped to main entrance (welcome) or front of a house. As opposed to your crescent which looks like this -------- ( showing the back entrance.
It is you who is beating around the bush. Your theory of starting the ?hajj? with the new moon crescent and ending it with the waning crescent results in ?hajj? lasting for 25 days. When you think of the front door do you think of something clear and apparent or of something hidden and dim? Which is the one that is hidden and dim, the front door or the back door? The full moon or the new moon?
Here is the definition of crescent A moon that is between a half moon and a new moon.
http//www.go-astronomy.com/glossary/astronomy-glossary-c.htm
That?s why I said hajj start and end in crescent moon. I am using your translation "crescent" to defeat your theory. Per the definition you don?t get 25 days of hajj. You are totally confused.
Your mapping of full moon to front door is irrelevant because it violates the definition of crescent.
This off-topic. Please open another thread if you want to discuss hajj.
Tell this to the god who designed this system. You choose to ignore it and instead follow an arbitrary and completely useless manmade timing system that you hypocritically don?t follow for any practical purposes.
The God already told us that ?The sun is never to catch up with the moon - the night and the day never deviate - each of them is floating in its own orbit (3640). You are the one who is disobeying Him.
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Peace Ayman,
As you can see, your points are in blue, and mine are in red.Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
I never said such thing. I said it was descended in a scorching full-moon. This is the same as saying it descended in a blazing sun or a cloudy day, etc. Just like all the phases of the moon, the scorching moon is an entirely optical phenomenon.
Day = Period of time
Moon = ObjectWho are you trying to fool? You are just trying to save your 'scorching moon' theory at any cost.
1 - Moon = object , correct ! but "full-moon" = a state of the moon/object. it also describes an event/trigger.
2 - "scorching" full-moon is another state/adjective of the moon/object . So one cannot say that the quran was revealed in an "object", but one can say quran was revealed in a night (period of time as well as a day) WHEN the moon was
a - in a full state (obvious),
b - big ( because of its lower path)
c - reddish and hot because of the summer solstice.
it makes perfect sense. ( for those who can afford to understand common sense).
Now this is @ Guest
3- hence, "the hot-scorching-big-obvious-reddish-full moon" ie. "shahr Ramadan" is unique because it happens only once in a year, after the summer solstice. the reddish big full moon of December misses at least one important attribute "hot-scorching"...am i clear enough ?i thought some people on this forum had problems with understanding arabic, but now i see that they had big problems with english as well (((((((((
salam
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1 - Moon = object , correct ! but "full-moon" = a state of the moon/object. it also describes an event/trigger.
2 - "scorching" full-moon is another state/adjective of the moon/object .
3- hence, "the hot-scorching-obvious-reddish-full moon" ie. "shahr Ramadan" is unique because it happens only once in a year, after the summer solstice. the reddish big full moon of December missess at least one important attribute "hot-scorching"...i thought some people on this forum had problems with understandng arabic, but now i see that they had big problems with english as well ((((((((((
salam
Indeed, some people dont understand English very well.. the Quran having been descended IN a full moon... very interesting.
2185 Shahru ramadana allatheeonzila feehi alqur-anu hudan lilnnasiwabayyinatin mina alhuda waalfurqan
BTW, what's the problem with not understanding Arabic?
Also, why the DOUBLE POSTING?
FYI, a full moon IS an object, or do you suggest something different? -
You mixed the traditional Babylonian Jewish calendar with the Torah calendar. The idea of adding an intercalary months and the metonic cycle is Babylonian. The Torah based calendar calls the first crescent after the Abib in Israel the first month. So its auto-adjusting.
Peace Rami
Reply #509 on September 22, 2008 truthseeker11
Excerpt from one of the links, http//www.crivoice.org/calendar.html http//www.abu.nb.ca/ecm/topics/custom7.htm
"The Rabbis would structure elaboate rules as to what constituted an appearance of the new moon, how many witnesses to the event were necessary, what qualifications those witnesses must possess, etc."
This shows how hard it is to accurately witness a new moon. The current sectarians who follow the Jews instead of The Quran have the same problem of determining the new moon every year and it is an empiric fact that there is always a dispute among them about the appearance of the new moon
The modern Hebrew calendar, since it is based on rules rather than observations, does not exactly track the tropical year, and in fact the average Hebrew year of ~365.2468 days is intermediate between the tropical year (~365.2422 days) and the sidereal year (~365.2564 days)
peace peace -
Salaam Samia,
You have a funny logic!
Words "attributed to quraan" are not the word "quraan" which you mentioned in your post and which I am talking about. Words referring to the quraan are attributes and have their own masculine and feminine description. They do not affect the gender of the word they are describing.
The example brought by Ayman best explains this.No funny logic is the full moon.
she is not except a remembrance
"she/it is" can refer to any attribute of Qur'an; read context of 7431 and the verse posted...
72
A Book was descended to you so no strain be in your chest from it, to warn with it and a remembrance to the believers.I am afraid we are pooring water in the sand, and whatever we say or whatever we try to explain to him , i bet he (Nun, Holiday, Pseudo, Eid, Rex...) still cannot understand. It's like that, you cannot do anything...it's a hopeless case .
Mos u fshi si miza n?n bishtin e kalit. -- Albanian proverb
Do not hide like a fly under the tail of a horse.You are an ignorant pretender and cheerleader; answer the questions...
2183 Ya ayyuha allatheena amanookutiba AAalaykumu alssiyamu
O you those who believe, it is dictated on you the fasting.2184 waAAala allatheena yuteeqoonahu
?and on those who endure it -- obviously refers back to the fasting.2185 faman shahida minkumu alshshahra falyasumhu
?so who witnessed from you the month, so he should fast it?While you have it as?
?.so who witnessed from you the full moon, so he should abstain, the abstinence.So yeah a double negative, if your vision is good, you are outdoors in clear weather lucky to see the full moon then avoid the fasting.
Likewise apply what was asked in the prior post...
583-4
And those who declare their wives as forbidden for them as their mothers
so freeing a neck from before that they touch each other
And he who finds not must do the abstinence two successive full-moons before they both touch each other
And he who is unable to do so should feed sixty poorThe abstinence two successive full-moons means wait until next 98%, 99%, 100% full moon then fast to next non-identifiable 98%, 99%, 100% full moon which is about a month +/- a few days for error.
Therefore, the abstinence of one full-moon is ZERO days!
- Does he commence fasting? YES!
- Can he sleep with his wife until the next full moon? NO!
- Does feeding 60 poor equate to two months fasting? YES!
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Peace progressive,
Also, why the DOUBLE POSTING?
FYI, a full moon IS an object, or do you suggest something different?Sorry for double posting, i corrected.
no, moon is an object , full moon is an event WHEN that moon object is in FULL STATE. That's what common sense suggests.BTW, what's the problem with not understanding Arabic?
The same problem with not understanding english.
Some may think that "workout" means working outside the office laughPeace
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Salaam Samia,
No funny logic is the full moon.
she is not except a remembrance
"she/it is" can refer to any attribute of Qur'an; read context of 7431 and the verse posted...
72
A Book was descended to you so no strain be in your chest from it, to warn with it and a remembrance to the believers.Mos u fshi si miza n?n bishtin e kalit. -- Albanian proverb
Do not hide like a fly under the tail of a horse.I like proverbs..
Here's an arabic one dhil al kalb 3omro ma yen3idil
the tail of the Dog never gets straight.You are an ignorant pretender and cheerleader; answer the questions...
That's what i am doing, answering, not cheerleading ignore
salam
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no, moon is an object , full moon is an event WHEN that moon object is in FULL STATE. That's what common sense suggests.
It can be both - I just checked dictionary.com
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Salaam Samia,
No funny logic is the full moon.
she is not except a remembrance
"she/it is" can refer to any attribute of Qur'an; read context of 7431 and the verse posted...
72
A Book was descended to you so no strain be in your chest from it, to warn with it and a remembrance to the believers.Salaam Eid
Forget about using 7431 to prove any arguement because it's the verse in question.
(A Book was descended to you so no strain be in your chest from it, to warn with it and a remembrance to the believers).
If you mean that this verse is your proof, what does it prove? It does not even contain (she/it is).
In fact, it proves my point
The two red letters are masculine singular pronouns referring to (A Book). They are the two translated "its" (underlined) in the English version of the verse.
is an attribute to the book.There's no other word linked to it in the verse, and so to any one ignorant of Arabic, nothing shows it's feminine.
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It can be both - I just checked dictionary.com
Thanks God it can be both, so fasting IN THE FULL MOON does make sense, as well as quran descending in A FULL MOON. (the event , not the object)
Thank you very much
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Thanks God it can be both, so fasting IN THE FULL moon does make sense.
Thank you
That is, of course, if 'shahr' means 'full moon'. And I still dont think that it makes sense, but if you think it makes sense, then so be it.
Anyways, I am looking forward to Ayman's response to my post.
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Salam progressive
i also (like you did) used dictionnaries to find that "shahr" means full moon.handshake
Note the IF in my last post.
BTW according to PRL, the root of 'shahr' can mean 'full moon' AND 'month' (among other things).
Peace peace
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That's what i am doing, answering, not cheerleading ignore
Then answer my prior post not run away like that fly posting nonsense as this...
3- hence, "the hot-scorching-big-obvious-reddish-full moon" ie. "shahr Ramadan" is unique because it happens only once in a year, after the summer solstice. the reddish big full moon of December misses at least one important attribute "hot-scorching"...am i clear enough ?
i thought some people on this forum had problems with understanding arabic, but now i see that they had big problems with english as well ((((((((((
YOU MISSED THIS BIG ONE LAST YEAR 3 DAYS BEFORE THE SOLSTICE!
http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/16jun_moonillusion.htm
On Wednesday night, June 18th, step outside at sunset and look around. You'll see a giant form rising in the east. At first glance it looks like the full Moon. It has craters and seas and the face of a man, but this "moon" is strangely inflated. It's huge!
You've just experienced the Moon Illusion.
http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/images/moonillusion/Kasaitis1_strip.jpgThe full moon which occurs sometimes 28 days after solstice will be a baby moon compared to the above.
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Salaam Samia,
Salaam Eid
Forget about using 7431 to prove any arguement because it's the verse in question.
(A Book was descended to you so no strain be in your chest from it, to warn with it and a remembrance to the believers).
If you mean that this verse is your proof, what does it prove? It does not even contain (she/it is).
No, put it all together, both are a remembrance...
7431... she/it is not except a remembrance to the human
Now give us your honest opinion of Ayman's assertion which lead to the above off topic...
2183 Ya ayyuha allatheena amanookutiba AAalaykumu alssiyamu
O you those who believe, it is dictated on you the fasting.2184 waAAala allatheena yuteeqoonahu
?and on those who endure it -- obviously refers back to the fasting.2185 faman shahida minkumu alshshahra falyasumhu
?so who witnessed from you the month, so he should fast it?While Ayman has it as?
?.so who witnessed from you the full moon, so he should abstain, the abstinence.So yeah a double negative, if your vision is good, you are outdoors in clear weather lucky to see the full moon then avoid the fasting.
Does the above logic look correct to you Samia?
Likewise Samia please apply logic to what was asked in numerous prior posts and tell us if this is correct...
583-4
And those who declare their wives as forbidden for them as their mothers
so freeing a neck from before that they touch each other
And he who finds not must do the abstinence two successive full-moons before they both touch each other
And he who is unable to do so should feed sixty poorThe abstinence two successive full-moons means wait until next 98%, 99%, 100% full moon then fast to next non-identifiable 98%, 99%, 100% full moon which is about a month +/- a few days for error.
Therefore, the abstinence of one full-moon is ZERO days!
- Does he commence fasting? YES!
- Can he sleep with his wife until the next full moon? NO!
- Does feeding 60 poor equate to two months fasting? YES!
Peace
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Peace Eid, all,
- Does feeding 60 poor equate to two months fasting? YES!
This is a very good point and furthermore proves that 'shahr' means 'month'. Here you go
581 God has heard the woman who argues with you regarding her husband, and she complains to God. God hears the argument between you. God is Hearer, Seer.
582 Those among you who estrange their wives by saying to them "You are as my mother." They can never be as their mothers, for their mothers are the women who gave birth to them. Indeed, they are uttering what is strange and a falsehood. God is Pardoner, Forgiver.
583 Those who had estranged their wives in this manner, then they again repeat it, they shall free a slave before they have sexual contact between them. This is to enlighten you. God is well aware of everything you do.
584 However, he who does not have the means shall fast for two consecutive months before the couple may touch one another again; and he who is unable to do it shall feed sixty poor people. That is so you would acknowledge God and His messenger. These are the limits set by God. Those who do not appreciate have incurred a painful retribution.
584 Faman lam yajid fasiyamushahrayni mutatabiAAayni min qabli an yatamassafaman lam yastatiAA fa-itAAamu sitteenamiskeenan thalika litu/minoo biAllahiwarasoolihi watilka hudoodu Allahi walilkafireenaAAathabun aleemun.
Feeding 60 needy people equates to to fasting for two 'shahrs' ('shahrayn' (months), in the above case.