Hot/"ramadan" Answer

farida

Easy with the spooky apocalyptic language. D

We are not disputing the 12 lunar cycles.

We are disputing the arbitrary Ramadan placement.

I will soon be posting "the Grand Scheme" behind disputing the arbitrary Ramadan placement.

So look forwad to the fianl destination plan. jedi

Rami

I will soon be posting "the Grand Scheme" behind disputing the arbitrary Ramadan placement.

So look forwad to the fianl destination plan. jedi

I am enjoying this thread. ;D

afridi220

AHHHHHHHHHH this is what some one is doing http//img266.imageshack.us/img266/4852/bepolite.gif the how some one can enjoy this thread. ( nope

unknownuser

Peace Ayman,

No the point is that all your arguments are from ignorance. Even an illiterate knows the basics such as the difference between masculine (he/"huwa" and feminine pronouns (she/"hiya&quot and that they refer to masculine and feminine objects. You have not even reached that level. You are acting like a baby who is still learning "dada" and "mama" but doesn't know pronouns and frankly speaking I am not in the mood for babysitting so don't continue sliding this slippery slope and have the courage to admit that you were wrong otherwise you will lose whatever little credibility you still have and changing your screen name will not help.

I have vowed i.e. made shahida to fast the month and to refrain my response.

Using context, is walad -- boy/son (masculine) in 411 not applicable to girl/daughter (feminine)?

There is no such thing as a 11 relation between feeding the poor and days of abstinence. You obviously never read 589 where feeding 10 poor equates to 3 days of fasting (i.e., 3.331). I guess we won't be hearing this nonsense from you again.

Thanks I did not recollect that verse. Regardless, shahr is a lunar month fast dawn to sunset 60 days or feed 60 poor.

How come we continue hear about the full moon illusion nonsense; are you too proud to admit a mistake after it was repeatedly shown the BIG RED FULL MOON a few days before the solstice makes the full moon 26-29 days after the solstice look as a baby?

Is The Full Moon Illusion still applicable Ayman -- tell the truth?

Both hu refer back to "the fasting that was dictated on you." This is because there are many types of abstinances. In this case, what was dictated on us is "the fasting of the complete count of a few days".

"falyasum alssiyamu" -- that seems right to you?

Salaam Samia,

Back to your question In such a case I would personally say it refers to "shahr" since it's the nearest singular masculine to the pronoun.

Thank you for your honest answer.

2185 faman shahida minkumu alshshahra falyasumhu -- so he should fast it (i.e. ?alshshahra?)

farida

AHHHHHHHHHH this is what some one is doing http//img266.imageshack.us/img266/4852/bepolite.gif the how some one can enjoy this thread. nope

Salaam Afridi,

You are so helpful when it comes to finding Urdu wrtings now see here; quickduck has quoted a proverb we have in Urdu too...
Kuty ki Dum hazar saal bhi nalki me rakhi mugur teri ki teri rahi.

From quickduck
I like proverbs..

Here's an arabic one dhil al kalb 3omro ma yen3idil
the tail of the Dog never gets straight.

Yet he won't acceptt that Urdu for month moon is same as Arabic. yes

belH

Easy with the spooky apocalyptic language.

We are not disputing the 12 lunar cycles.

We are disputing the arbitrary Ramadan placement.

Peace,

It seems that most of God Creatures like to dispute with him, and therefore, the go astray.

If we learn to listen to God When saying " I know what you do not know.? , and reply by saying "You are the Knowledgeable, the Wise", then we will be at ease with ourselves. But, instead, we argue and dispute.

Trust God's wisdom and follow the Well-Established Verses that Instruct you to count 12 Months (Moon Cycles) when calculating a year--NO ADDING a MOON nor SUBTRACTING.

Salaam belH
Happy Ramadan! Good to see you on this thread again. Your valuable contributions, of last year, have proved a great resource. Jazakumallah khairan.

You can see again that the organised and well oiled, but badly equipped with pdf files, Prince of Darkness is bidding on the hope that he can get away with his lies. nope that will never happen.
peace

So long Sister...I have not been contributing as I used to...But you and others are doing wonderful Job.
May God increase your wisdom

farida

Peace Farida,

This only proves that Guest and you suffer from hero-worship fetish. The same exact thing can be said about Christianity and its hero Paul
Jesus as the son of god was established firmly by the Prophet Jesus during his stay with was (previous generation) which we still follow. You are making a false accusation that Paul invented that Jesus is the son of god without any valid evidence. Paul is the one who was a desciple with the Prophet and not you. My innermost thoughts tell me that he didn?t abandon Christianity religion like you suggest using the example ?he claimed that Jesus is the son of god?. Judging your logic from the contents of your posts, I would most certainly conclude it is you who we should be careful about. Suggesting such a drastic change during the time in question would be equivalent to asking for extreme punishment. Even a sane disbeliever wouldn?t dare do that
If a much more drastic lie such as the one about Jesus can be invented, then the order of the months in an arbitrary calendar is the simplest thing to invent.
Peace,

Ayman

Peace Ayman,

If you take this "invention" to a court of law, the judge would simply throw your flawed reasoning out the window so please stop playing the judge and get yourself a good lawyer.

peace

unknownuser

Peace Ayman,

Once again you ignore to read the very links that you provide

Where does it say in PERF558 or the inscription that the year is AH? Can you copy and paste the transcription and underline the word "hijri"?

What do you suppose the year 22 is referring to or is this the purpose of your question?

http//www.google.com/#hl=en&q=Mickey+Dunce&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&fp=d9ca629f83f82f8a

PERF 558 Contents
In the name of the Merciful, Compassionate God. These are the animals for slaughtering that `Abd-Allah ibn Jabir and his companions took from Ihnas? we took from the representatives of Theodor,? the elder son of Abu Qir, and from the representative of istofor,? the younger son of Abu Qir, fifty sheep from the animals for slaughter and fifteen other sheep, which were butchered for the men on his ships, his cavalry and his infantry in the month Jumada I of the year Twenty-Two. The scribe was Ibn Hadid.??

Grohmann worked out "30 Pharmouthi of the indiction year 1" to be 25th April, 643 A.D.
The date fits with two of the most commonly available conversion tables those of Caetani and of Freeman-Grenville.?? They make the last day of Jumada I equate with 26th April, 643 A.D. Given the virtual inevitability of imprecisions of dating at the period, the fit is remarkably good.

The above is confirmed by new moon data for that year?

New Moon (start of new month crescent 2 days later)

1/25/643 3. Rabi' al-awwal
24-Feb 4. Rabi' al-thani
25-Mar 5. Jumada al-awwal PERF 558 last day of Jumada al-awwal 4/25
24-Apr 6. Jumada al-thani begins 4/26
23-May 7. Rajab
22-Jun 8. Sha'aban
21-Jul 9. Ramadan
20-Aug 10. Shawwal
19-Sep 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
18-Oct 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
17-Nov 1. Muharram
17-Dec 2. Safar

Are you seriously that clueless? Why do you think the next summer solstice happened 12 months later? What is the new moon crescent on July 16? Is it the first new moon crescent after the summer solstice? YES or NO.

YES that was the moon cycle in those years and would be the same after summer solstice if they picked year 622, 623, or 624 two days after the summer solstice, nothing special...

New Moon Date (start new month 2 days later)
1/17/622 7. Rajab
16-Feb 8. Sha'aban
18-Mar 9. Ramadan
16-Apr 10. Shawwal
16-May 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
14-Jun 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
14-Jul 1. Muharram begins 7/16
12-Aug 2. Safar Sept 9 (26 Safar AH 1) Hijra
11-Sep 3. Rabi' al-awwal
10-Oct 4. Rabi' al-thani
8-Nov 5. Jumada al-awwal
8-Dec 6. Jumada al-thani
1/6/623 7. Rajab
5-Feb 8. Sha'aban
7-Mar 9. Ramadan
5-Apr 10. Shawwal
5-May 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
4-Jun 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
3-Jul 1. Muharram 2 AH
2-Aug 2. Safar
31-Aug 3. Rabi' al-awwal
30-Sep 4. Rabi' al-thani
29-Oct 5. Jumada al-awwal
28-Nov 6. Jumada al-thani
27-Dec 7. Rajab
1/25/624 8. Sha'aban
24-Feb 9. Ramadan March 17, 624 (17 Ramadan 2 AH) Badr Battle
24-Mar 10. Shawwal
23-Apr 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
23-May 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
21-Jun 1. Muharram 3 AH
21-Jul 2. Safar
20-Aug 3. Rabi' al-awwal
18-Sep 4. Rabi' al-thani
18-Oct 5. Jumada al-awwal
16-Nov 6. Jumada al-thani
16-Dec 7. Rajab
1/14/625 8. Sha'aban
13-Feb 9. Ramadan
14-Mar 10. Shawwal March 19, 625 (3 Shawwal 3 AH) Battle of Uhud
12-Apr 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
12-May 12. Dhu al-Hijjah

552CE (just 18 years before traditions claim the prophet was born)
http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/e_pre-islamic/fig04_sabaean.htm
Month name Zu A'allan (notice also the word for ?month? is not ?shahr? but ?warkh?)

326CE
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/namarah.html
Month name Kaslul.

267CE
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/raqush.htm
Month name Tammouz (notice also the word for ?month? is not ?shahr? but consistent with the 552CE inscription ?yarkh?)

When did Abraha die after he put up that sign in Southern Arabia and are Zu A?allan, ?warkh? and Tammuz (Jewish) or ?yarkh? common Arabic words that were used throughout all of Arabia including the central and northern -- what language and dialect?

No the dates of the lunar calendar get pushed back by 1 month every three years. If they picked the year of PERF558 as 1AH for starting a purely lunar calendar then the 22 years difference would result in Ramadhan coming 7 months later and it would have been in what is now the month of Rabii Al-Thani in the spring and Farida and you wouldn?t be so cranky.

I am very calm and there is nothing to push back every three years; this has nothing with summer solstice and our friend would have simply written year 1 and the months would continue without change...

http//www.timeanddate.com/calendar/moonphases.html?year=643&n=214

New Moon Date
8-Dec 1. Muharram
1/6/642 2. Safar
5-Feb 3. Rabi' al-awwal
6-Mar 4. Rabi' al-thani
5-Apr 5. Jumada al-awwal
4-May 6. Jumada al-thani
3-Jun 7. Rajab
3-Jul 8. Sha'aban
1-Aug 9. Ramadan
31-Aug 10. Shawwal
29-Sep 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
29-Oct 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
28-Nov 1. Muharram 1 AH
27-Dec 2. Safar
1/25/643 3. Rabi' al-awwal
24-Feb 4. Rabi' al-thani
25-Mar 5. Jumada al-awwal PERF 558 last day of Jumada al-awwal 4/25
24-Apr 6. Jumada al-thani begins 4/26
23-May 7. Rajab
22-Jun 8. Sha'aban
21-Jul 9. Ramadan
20-Aug 10. Shawwal
19-Sep 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
18-Oct 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
17-Nov 1. Muharram 2 AH
17-Dec 2. Safar

Salaam again Samia,

No one is denying the "moon" as a marker. But do not deny the specificty of the sun in counting the years as per
1712

We have made the Night and the Day as two (of Our) Signs the Sign of the Night have We obscured, while the Sign of the Day We have made to enlighten you; that ye may seek bounty from your Lord, and that ye may know the number and count of the years all things have We explained in detail

Which should make you re-read verse 105 in the following way to avoid any contradiction
105
He is the One who has made the sun a radiance and the moon a light, and He has measured its phases, that you may know the number of the years and the count. God has not created this except with the truth. He clarifies the revelations for a people who know.

There is no contradiction.

105 No other way to read than what it exactly says; the moon phases are to know the years.

1712 Moon phases only exist due to sunlight and therefore, the sun is used to know the years.

Peace

unknownuser

ANd Hajj is all about feasting. bravo bravo bravo
If you listen to Urdu radio service in Ramadan then you would hear about Akhri 3shra ie last ten days of the month and of course the night of power.
3shra is divided into three sections. The first ten days of the moon cycle is awasl 3shra, then comes the middle 3shra and then final 3shra.(Akhri 3shra )

So 3shra is not an object call moon but the whole moon cycle from crescent to crescent.
Salaam

are you for real?

sister you really need some urdu lessons too. yes

quickduck

peace all of you,

I have vowed i.e. made shahida to fast the month and to refrain my response.

not a valid excuse, since you have been roughly answering all along this thread. So why stop now ?

"falyasum alssiyamu" -- that seems right to you?

Salaam Samia,

Thank you for your honest answer.

2185 faman shahida minkumu alshshahra falyasumhu -- so he should fast it (i.e. ?alshshahra?)

I totally agree that "hu" refers to ash-shahra not to the abstinance. But ash-shahra doesn't mean month. it means full moon (the obvious marker for counting months, exactly 12, no more nor less).

Using context, is walad -- boy/son (masculine) in 411 not applicable to girl/daughter (feminine)?

You still need efforts, stop faking learning arabic, LEARN

walad is a masculine noun, but it doesn't strictly means boy/son nor girl/daughter. Actually it means both as we can understand from 411.

Walad is used in arabic to mean progeniture/infant in both sex.

Boy/son/male = // (from right to left) fataa/ibn/dhakar.
girl/daughter/female = // (from right to left) fataate/bint/unthaa.

until you pass the basic level of arabic, you will always have serious problems in learning islam due to the mistranslations you read.

Salam all of you ..

quickduck

100 pages !!! we should celebrate sun

guest

Peace Farida,

This only proves that Guest and you suffer from hero-worship fetish. The same exact thing can be said about Christianity and its hero Paul
Jesus as the son of god was established firmly by the Prophet Jesus during his stay with was (previous generation) which we still follow. You are making a false accusation that Paul invented that Jesus is the son of god without any valid evidence. Paul is the one who was a desciple with the Prophet and not you. My innermost thoughts tell me that he didn?t abandon Christianity religion like you suggest using the example ?he claimed that Jesus is the son of god?. Judging your logic from the contents of your posts, I would most certainly conclude it is you who we should be careful about. Suggesting such a drastic change during the time in question would be equivalent to asking for extreme punishment. Even a sane disbeliever wouldn?t dare do that
If a much more drastic lie such as the one about Jesus can be invented, then the order of the months in an arbitrary calendar is the simplest thing to invent.

Peace,

Ayman

Peace Ayman,

You are unable to write even a single sentence without contradicting a fact or reality. And your logic is screwed-up to the point of no return. The proof is in all your posts including this one.

POINT 1
Paul was an apostle (follower) of Jesus, who converted to Christianity after Jesus' death by crucifixion, and there is no evidence he ever personally met Jesus when he was alive.

Paul was originally known as Saul of Tarsus, and a rabid persecutor of Christians. On the road to Damascus, he is said to have been visited by the resurrected Jesus, and struck blind. After his vision cleared Saul took the name of Paul, and began to proclaim the gospel, as revealed to him by Jesus the Christ.

Therefore, Ayman is proudly demonstrating his ignorance by saying ?Paul is the one who was a desciple with the Prophet and not you.?

POINT 2

We all know that the life of Jesus ended prematurely. He did not have time to establish the God's system like the Prophet Muhammad did. Therefore, even a 5 year old child would know that it would be easy for Paul to invent lies about the God and Jesus and get away with it because he didn't have to face the God's system. Now contrast this with the system Prophet Muhammad left behind. Ayman, please cite us the verse that talks about the punishment for blaspheming the God within the God's system. Ironically, the same verse applies to Ayman as well.

Five years old child gets this but not Ayman. The God has taken his understanding faculty away because of his wrongdoing.

POINT 3

We have historical evidence when Paul started his gospel (point of deviation). We know of groups that protested his teaching. We have many other evidence as well. My question to Ayman is this do you have any such evidence regarding your so called deviation of Ramadan. And don't quote me the PERF stupid thing which has been created by Greeks who are famous for making mythology. They have hundreds of idol (gods) who they worship. I think you are at home with them. Otherwise why would you use such nasty think as a source of your writing.

farida

are you for real?

sister you really need some urdu lessons too. yes

Salaam,
Yes brother, I am for real and what I said are Urdu phrases (not punjabbi) and Urdu is a language made up of mainly Arabic, Persian Sanskrit.
Confirm it with someone outside free-minds who is a good Urdu speaker.
peace

farida

100 pages !!! we should celebrate sun

Soon it will be 101.
Saaalaaam

quickduck

Peace guest,

Now i really started doubting your intelligence. Would you please visit http//www.iqtest.com/prep.html ...maybe it will give you a hint ?

By his post, Ayman just wanted to show you that Guest and you suffer from hero-worship fetish. So he replaced words in your very prior post to show you that it sounds the same. that's simple )

Again it's proverb time He Tried to shoot the dear, but he missed the forest.

Salam

farida

Peace Nabil,

The burden of proof is on those who claim that those people met the prophet (a positive). ;;;;;;;;;;;Peace,

Ayman

Salaam Everyone
The Grand Scheme;

Brother Nabil, in one of his post advised me please do not let that question of unity bother you, unity of what, behind a month? are you serious?

Let me explain what the grand scheme behind this Summer Solstice/ Hot Ramadan swindle really is

First of all, note that Ayman and Samia are always referring to ?the Prophet? or ?the Messenger?, never using the name ?Mohammad?.
Now let me go through Ayman?s post(in red) to you,step by step outlining its final destination

The burden of proof is on those who claim that those people met the prophet (a positive). I don't have to prove a negative (see the logical fallacy of negative proof).
The Grand Plan here is to suggest that, in fact, there never was a prophet called Mohammad!
Now see below how Ayman slyly leads us towards this uncanny conclusion

The topic is about timing and some on this thread have claimed that the sectarian arbitrary calendar was established by the prophet
See above; there is absolutely no logic to his statement about two different things. He is simply manoeuvring towards the contention that NOTHING was established by the prophet.

We can empirically verify that corruption took place since the traditional Umar calendar is completely baseless and has nothing to do with the great reading.
First of all who are ?we? and see how he is leading us by the nose to, what he calls, his ?empirical? verification.

If indeed Umar established this corrupt calendar
He sets off by attacking the one whose name apparently has been seen on the remains of receipts etc.

full of lies then he couldn't be one of the followers of the messenger
In other words hmmFull of lies???? Was there indeed someone called Mohammad in the first place whom Umar followed?! (who would have followed the message)

Actually, we should be LESS careful with those guys. At least we have the writings of Bukhari and thus we know that at least he existed.
This is where the accusation starts that which guy actually existed.????

Muslim and Bukhari existed and have been branded as evil ones ?the bad guy from Bukhara who concocted stories about ?those guys didn't even exist?

Two people that we know existed are Umar and Ali. The writings we have about Umar come from the Romans (describing the invasion of Jerusalem during his time) and the Jews (greatly praising him for being a champion of Zionism).

Now he brands Umar as a friend of Zionism (greatly praising him for being a champion of Zionism), a fascistic ideology that was not even devised until the 19th century!
Up to this stage it?s been firmly established that Bukhari came from Bukhara. Now the next stage is to brand Umar as a Zionist confirmed only by the enemy Romans.

Ali is mentioned in one source that talks about the Arab civil wars but he is called Abu Turab (not Abu Talib) and he is described as the Prince of Hira (present day Southwest Iraq). So even the little we know about those figures contradicts traditions about them

Now Ali is popping up; time to discredit and delete him too as being nothing but ?the traditionalist prince of Hira?. So no Ali then...no uncle of Ali?

Interestingly, the Roman sources also say that the kingdom of the Arabs started invading their teritories in 620-621CE when Heraclius, king of the Romans, was in his eleventh year. According to traditions, at that time the prophet hasn't even emigrated yet! so the traditional dating is definitely problematic and putting all the evidence that we have together we can be pretty certain that the traditional calendar is not based on the actual year of the "hijra" but on a later date. Since this is a discussion about the timing and the validity of the traditional calendar, then all this is certainly relevant. For further reading, I would suggest that you get the book "Seeing Islam as Others Saw it" by Hoyland

Now we come to the Actual man Mohammad and the legitimacy of the traditional personalities.

It always amazes me that people believe that everyone who held any political position during those days is a cousin of the prophet or is related by marriage. I bet that its all just political propaganda and lies much like the kings of Jordan and Morocco and anyone who pays $300 to get a certified family tree that he is one of the so-called Ashraf.

So finally no Mohammad, no shahada and no valid Islam.

You bet!!!!! I bet that Dr Ashraf Ayman had been paid weelll over $300 for his nefarious propaganda. >

Congratulations brother Nabil! Now you have your own ?Murabiteens" Saint Ayman handshake

peace

7183 Free_Minds And I will encourage them, for My scheming is formidable.

unknownuser

If you listen to Urdu radio service in Ramadan then you would hear about Akhri 3shra ie last ten days of the month and of course the night of power.
3shra is divided into three sections. The first ten days of the moon cycle is awasl 3shra, then comes the middle 3shra and then final 3shra.(Akhri 3shra )

So 3shra is not an object call moon but the whole moon cycle from crescent to crescent.
Salaam

so which one is correct

3shra = 10 (days)?
3shra = crescent to crescent 29-30 (days)?

and have you ever heard of 3shra Mubashira?

unknownuser

Salaam Everyone

First of all, note that Ayman and Samia are always referring to ?the Prophet? or ?the Messenger?, never using the name ?Mohammad?.

rotfl rotfl rotfl

may be out of respect like many indian women don't say their husbands' names....?

quickduck