Hot/"ramadan" Answer

unknownuser

Salaam Everyone

First of all, note that Ayman and Samia are always referring to ?the Prophet? or ?the Messenger?, never using the name ?Mohammad?.

rotfl rotfl rotfl

may be out of respect like many indian women don't say their husbands' names....?

quickduck

Salaam Everyone
The Grand Scheme;

Brother Nabil, in one of his post advised me please do not let that question of unity bother you, unity of what, behind a month? are you serious?

Let me explain what the grand scheme behind this Summer Solstice/ Hot Ramadan swindle really is

First of all, note that Ayman and Samia are always referring to ?the Prophet? or ?the Messenger?, never using the name ?Mohammad?.
Now let me go through Ayman?s post(in red) to you,step by step outlining its final destination

The burden of proof is on those who claim that those people met the prophet (a positive). I don't have to prove a negative (see the logical fallacy of negative proof).
The Grand Plan here is to suggest that, in fact, there never was a prophet called Mohammad!
Now see below how Ayman slyly leads us towards this uncanny conclusion

The topic is about timing and some on this thread have claimed that the sectarian arbitrary calendar was established by the prophet
See above; there is absolutely no logic to his statement about two different things. He is simply manoeuvring towards the contention that NOTHING was established by the prophet.

We can empirically verify that corruption took place since the traditional Umar calendar is completely baseless and has nothing to do with the great reading.
First of all who are ?we? and see how he is leading us by the nose to, what he calls, his ?empirical? verification.

If indeed Umar established this corrupt calendar
He sets off by attacking the one whose name apparently has been seen on the remains of receipts etc.

full of lies then he couldn't be one of the followers of the messenger
In other words hmmFull of lies???? Was there indeed someone called Mohammad in the first place whom Umar followed?! (who would have followed the message)

Actually, we should be LESS careful with those guys. At least we have the writings of Bukhari and thus we know that at least he existed.
This is where the accusation starts that which guy actually existed.????

Muslim and Bukhari existed and have been branded as evil ones ?the bad guy from Bukhara who concocted stories about ?those guys didn't even exist?

Two people that we know existed are Umar and Ali. The writings we have about Umar come from the Romans (describing the invasion of Jerusalem during his time) and the Jews (greatly praising him for being a champion of Zionism).

Now he brands Umar as a friend of Zionism (greatly praising him for being a champion of Zionism), a fascistic ideology that was not even devised until the 19th century!
Up to this stage it?s been firmly established that Bukhari came from Bukhara. Now the next stage is to brand Umar as a Zionist confirmed only by the enemy Romans.

Ali is mentioned in one source that talks about the Arab civil wars but he is called Abu Turab (not Abu Talib) and he is described as the Prince of Hira (present day Southwest Iraq). So even the little we know about those figures contradicts traditions about them

Now Ali is popping up; time to discredit and delete him too as being nothing but ?the traditionalist prince of Hira?. So no Ali then...no uncle of Ali?

Interestingly, the Roman sources also say that the kingdom of the Arabs started invading their teritories in 620-621CE when Heraclius, king of the Romans, was in his eleventh year. According to traditions, at that time the prophet hasn't even emigrated yet! so the traditional dating is definitely problematic and putting all the evidence that we have together we can be pretty certain that the traditional calendar is not based on the actual year of the "hijra" but on a later date. Since this is a discussion about the timing and the validity of the traditional calendar, then all this is certainly relevant. For further reading, I would suggest that you get the book "Seeing Islam as Others Saw it" by Hoyland

Now we come to the Actual man Mohammad and the legitimacy of the traditional personalities.

It always amazes me that people believe that everyone who held any political position during those days is a cousin of the prophet or is related by marriage. I bet that its all just political propaganda and lies much like the kings of Jordan and Morocco and anyone who pays $300 to get a certified family tree that he is one of the so-called Ashraf.

So finally no Mohammad, no shahada and no valid Islam.

You bet!!!!! I bet that Dr Ashraf Ayman had been paid weelll over $300 for his nefarious propaganda. >

Congratulations brother Nabil! Now you have your own ?Murabiteens" Saint Ayman handshake

peace

7183 Free_Minds And I will encourage them, for My scheming is formidable.

La 7awla wa la 9uwwata illa billah !!

Alcohol is bad , use it with moderation .

What about the pink elephant in your room ??

unknownuser

La 7awla wa la 9uwwata illa billah !!

Alcohol is bad , use it with moderation .

What about the pink elephant in your room ??

aah I see, I could have never guessed it!

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

Ad you have missed the wall..

I like the come back..

Peace guest,

Now i really started doubting your intelligence. Would you please visit http//www.iqtest.com/prep.html ...maybe it will give you a hint ?

By his post, Ayman just wanted to show you that Guest and you suffer from hero-worship fetish. So he replaced words in your very prior post to show you that it sounds the same. that's simple

Again it's proverb time He Tried to shoot the dear, but he missed the forest.

Salam

La 7awla wa la 9uwwata illa billah !!

Alcohol is bad , use it with moderation .

What about the pink elephant in your room ??

100 pages !!! we should celebrate sun

I must say, Ayman's cheerleader captain makes a lot of insightful posts.

unknownuser

Peace,

I totally agree that "hu" refers to ash-shahra not to the abstinance. But ash-shahra doesn't mean month. it means full moon (the obvious marker for counting months, exactly 12, no more nor less).

You still need efforts, stop faking learning arabic, LEARN

Then since you know Arabic and disagree; tell everyone how to fast a FULL MOON?
This year's full moon after solstice July 7th full at exactly 1222PM in the daytime.

http//www.timeanddate.com/calendar/moonphases.html?year=2009&n=214
Moon phases for Riyadh, Saudi Arabia year 2009

FULL MOON Jul 7 1222 PM

Did you see it? Was you quick enough to "fast it"?

walad is a masculine noun, but it doesn't strictly means boy/son nor girl/daughter. Actually it means both as we can understand from 411.

Walad is used in arabic to mean progeniture/infant in both sex.

Boy/son/male = // (from right to left) fataa/ibn/dhakar.
girl/daughter/female = // (from right to left) fataate/bint/unthaa.

until you pass the basic level of arabic, you will always have serious problems in learning islam due to the mistranslations you read.

I asked a simple question (thanks for proving my point) and I'm familiar with inheritance verses, thank you.

Perhaps since you know Arabic so well you can answer the questions at the end of this thread...
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16179.0

We are especially interested in the exact definition of Kalala, Ikhwatan, and the meaning of " to the male equal luck the two females" if that is a general mixed case or if the girls are exactly two...

Please don't post it here (we already know you are gifted in languages), we have enough unanswered questions pertaining to this topic to address -- that is if you like since you are the Arabic expert and know Qur'an so well...

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

FULL MOON Jul 7 1222 PM

Did you see it? Were you quick enough to "fast it"?

bravo

Lets see if he can answer that one.

@ ayman,

I like your arguementation tactic ignoring.

A blessed and successful Ramadan to all peace

noble

Salaam Everyone
The Grand Scheme;

Brother Nabil, in one of his post advised me please do not let that question of unity bother you, unity of what, behind a month? are you serious?

Let me explain what the grand scheme behind this Summer Solstice/ Hot Ramadan swindle really is

So finally no Mohammad, no shahada and no valid Islam.

You bet!!!!! I bet that Dr Ashraf Ayman had been paid weelll over $300 for his nefarious propaganda. >

Congratulations brother Nabil! Now you have your own ?Murabiteens" Saint Ayman handshake

peace

7183 Free_Minds And I will encourage them, for My scheming is formidable.

I am very curious of Ayman's answer to this.
I am also aware of Ayman's positions regarding certain matters in the Quran to be metaphorical / allegorical,
and there was a fierce debate between members as to the fact if previous Prophets such as Abraham, David,
Solomon and even Jesus ever existed, or if they were a combination of characters, or an invention of religious
leaders... this was of course something the large majority in Free-minds forcefully rejected.
Ayman proposed a metaphorical explanation to the reality of Jinns and Angels (i.e. that they do not actually
exist but in your head as fantasies), this was too forcefully rejected, but he still has some followers.
Now if your analysis / accusation is correct, and he starts arguing that Mohammed is an allegorical figure,
then we will act when this happens.
Otherwise, as of now, I find his argument on the counting of the years and months using his quranic
and cosmological insights together with the fast directives sound.
For me it is akin to RK, with whom I did not agree with on many points, but who opened my eyes on some.
Ayman does not also always follow a strict scientific method when he peppers statements around, which for me
does no good to his credibility.
But he does take risks, and is not paid for what he does. With many of us acting out of fear of the unknown just
to defend our status quo, I think he, Layth, Edip Yuksel and a few others have done a lot of good to the Monotheist
cause.
If your grave accusations are correct, you will still need to provide proof, i.e. e.g. that he is on the pay roll of some
dark agencies.
Salam and Allah's protection to all of us...

ayman

Peace Nabil,

for those of you who are fasting, aren't you supposed not to argue while fasting?
anyways, for those quoting hadith, you are wasting your time on me,
Ayman is far from being a genius, but his understanding of the fast as decreed in the Qur'an is spot on, and I invite you to follow it from next year, Allah willing, if you wish to maximise your rewards.
Ayman, please do not be too impulsive in making comments, as I have followed you since 2003, and several times you make pronouncements before they are fully clear in your head, this confuses matters with peeps.
You have been blessed these times with ramadan, the hajj, so glory be to Allah, and let us thank him for those insights.

I agree. This is why I put the disclaimer at the end of my articles. All good comes from the god.

Your insights in the Jinns are completely off the mark, unless you have changed your pop psychology interpretation,
and if I were to judge you on that alone, I would not accept anything from you, but we need to be mature enough that
in Ijtihad we will make mistakes, but we ought to be big and wise enough and humble enough to recognise that we made one.

We know from the great reading that the "jinn" are what entice us to do wrong and are our "qarin"/close counterpart. Which out of those entities that have been proposed over the years we can empirically verify as fitting the above

Ghosts
Aliens
Reptilians
Our imagination

I think the answer is clear and each one of us deep inside knows what drives him/her to do wrong but as you said we all make mistakes. Even my wife, like you, doesn't fully agree with my interpretation of "jinn" and yet I still accept things from her .

I am also curious as how you read the Quran, and do you also take into account of signs that Allah sends along the way.
We do dismiss the signs we get when asleep, while at those times our soul goes back to our Maker, and gets re-programed
in some sorts of way, Joseph was endowed with the ability to read the programing whereas I suppose for us, it is subliminal,
and everyday, we wake up we get taken over by the day to day reality, and choose to over-ride "valuable" instincts that Allah
every single night re-instills in us while we sleep...
(For a flavour of this, -though in a psychological/psychiatric contest- you can refer to Human Givens - Joe Griffin & Ivan Tyrrell as a start up) - it is really fascinating...

I am not sure how I read the great reading and if it is any different than how others read it. I don?t think about that. I guess I try to read it without any preconceptions. Most of the breakthroughs that I had were just after waking up after dawn. I also see the entire creation of the god as part of the signs that he guides us with. Even the people on this thread are signs. I think that dreams can be good or bad. For example, many corruptors did what they did as a result of dreams. I just pray that the god guides me and has mercy on me, this is all.

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace Belal,

And that is what I and the believers are counting 12 Moon Cycles, as we are instructed by our Lord...

Do you know the difference between a count and an absolute number?
What are you starting the count from?
What if you started the count from a different point?

If you answer those questions, you will realize that when the sectarian so-called Ramadhan occurs has nothing to do with counting 12 of anything.

And that is what I and the believers do not follow, because we know that our Lord did not Instruct us to do so...and from debating and reading the different comments in this thread, non have provided such instruction from Quran.

Believers in what? You have essentially put your faith in whoever established the order of the months and decided that it should start at a certain point. This is what you believe in.

Therefore, you have your deen and we will have ours, and God will be the Judge in the Day were every one will be Judged.

Agreed. But don?t claim that your arbitrary so-called Ramadhan is based on the great reading and admit that it is based on following sectarians. If the majority stops following it or you get stranded on an island and lose track of time, it will die out just as much as all falsehood will eventually die out.

It seems that most of God Creatures like to dispute with him, and therefore, the go astray.

No only humans do. All of the god?s creatures naturally follow the solar cycle except Sunnis, Shias and 19ers.

If we learn to listen to God When saying " I know what you do not know.? , and reply by saying "You are the Knowledgeable, the Wise", then we will be at ease with ourselves. But, instead, we argue and dispute.

Then don?t argue and dispute. Just imagine that there is no one to argue and dispute with and you only have the great reading and you have lost track of time. Now figure out the timing using the great reading.

Trust God's wisdom and follow the Well-Established Verses that Instruct you to count 12 Months (Moon Cycles) when calculating a year--NO ADDING a MOON nor SUBTRACTING.

But you are not counting 12 Months. You have been counting continuously since 1AH. It doesn?t matter that you have given what you count names and you repeat those names every 12 names because those names are meaningless anyways so you might as well call them A B C .... In order to properly count, you have to know the population that you are counting out of.

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace Eid,

I have vowed i.e. made shahida to fast the month and to refrain my response.

We should always think carefully before we talk and not just during one month.

Using context, is walad -- boy/son (masculine) in 411 not applicable to girl/daughter (feminine)?

No need to continue to dispute the indisputable. As everyone who bothered to explain to you kindly explained, there is no such gender agreement in Arabic as you think. So feminine can describe a masculine and vice-versa. I already gave an example where the feminine is describing a masculine. Here is the opposite case

Literal?The learning connection (feminine) was on the faithful a book (masculine) timed.

Ironically, those who are clapping for you never bothered to explain to you those facts or correct you or stand for the truth. Compare this to me correcting others, even those who agree with me. This tells you who is standing for the truth.

Thanks I did not recollect that verse. Regardless, shahr is a lunar month fast dawn to sunset 60 days or feed 60 poor.

So regardless of what 589 says you will continue with your erroneous thinking.

How come we continue hear about the full moon illusion nonsense; are you too proud to admit a mistake after it was repeatedly shown the BIG RED FULL MOON a few days before the solstice makes the full moon 26-29 days after the solstice look as a baby?
Is The Full Moon Illusion still applicable Ayman -- tell the truth?

Please tell everyone what causes the solstice moon illusion and why it appears red and which moons this applies to.

"falyasum alssiyamu" -- that seems right to you?

It should be ?falyasum alssiyam alathi kutib alaykum? so he should abstain it (the particular abstinence that was dictated on you).

Salaam Samia,
Thank you for your honest answer.
2185 faman shahida minkumu alshshahra falyasumhu -- so he should fast it (i.e. ?alshshahra?)

It could go either way. Either way, reading the rest of the passage we know for sure that ?shahr? is a marker and this is why ?how many days to fast? is given, which would be redundant if it was known to be a month. Also, this is the only way around the logical absurdity created by taking ?shahr? to mean month and witnessed being in the perfect past tense (i.e., whoever amongst you witnessed the month should go back in time and fast it).

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace Eid again,

What do you suppose the year 22 is referring to or is this the purpose of your question?

I am not supposing anything. It is you who is supposing. The term ?Hijri? doesn?t appear until about a hundred years later. So we don?t really know what this arbitrary dating is based on.

PERF 558 Contents
In the name of the Merciful, Compassionate God. These are the animals for slaughtering that `Abd-Allah ibn Jabir and his companions took from Ihnas? we took from the representatives of Theodor,? the elder son of Abu Qir, and from the representative of istofor,? the younger son of Abu Qir, fifty sheep from the animals for slaughter and fifteen other sheep, which were butchered for the men on his ships, his cavalry and his infantry in the month Jumada I of the year Twenty-Two. The scribe was Ibn Hadid.??
Grohmann worked out "30 Pharmouthi of the indiction year 1" to be 25th April, 643 A.D.
The date fits with two of the most commonly available conversion tables those of Caetani and of Freeman-Grenville.?? They make the last day of Jumada I equate with 26th April, 643 A.D. Given the virtual inevitability of imprecisions of dating at the period, the fit is remarkably good.

Hmm.. As everyone can see there is no ?Hijri? here. So again you have no idea what the arbitrary start is based on.

YES that was the moon cycle in those years and would be the same after summer solstice if they picked year 622, 623, or 624 two days after the summer solstice, nothing special...
14-Jul 1. Muharram begins 7/16
3-Jul 1. Muharram 2 AH
21-Jun 1. Muharram 3 AH

Why did you stop at 624? What happened to 625? You know the answer but as usual, you are deliberately hiding the truth. You know that after three years the lunar cycle will be out of sync with the solar cycle. So this further pinpoints the initial point of corruption since at the start (and for the subsequent three years) the cycle was in sync with the solar cycle and it started with the first new moon after the summer solstice.

When did Abraha die after he put up that sign in Southern Arabia and are Zu A?allan, ?warkh? and Tammuz (Jewish) or ?yarkh? common Arabic words that were used throughout all of Arabia including the central and northern -- what language and dialect?

Who cares about when Abraha died. The date of the inscription is just 18 years prior to when traditionalists claim prophet Muhammed was born. It is consistent with all other inscriptions in that it doesn?t mention any of the names of the sectarian months but totally different months. Not only that but it also destroys the traditional history. In fact a few years ago MSM Saifullah, the owner of Islamic-Awareness.org emailed me requesting the link to this inscription after he saw it in one of my articles. Why do you think to this day he doesn?t dare to publish this inscription on Islamic-Awarness.org?

The language of all the inscriptions is Arabian but they use different dialects. The 552CE one is in a South Arabian dialect called Sabaic and uses the Musnad script while the 326CE and 267CE are in the North Arabian Old Arabic dialect and use the Nabataean script. The great reading uses both South Arabian and North Arabian terms. Notice, for example, words in the South Arabian inscription such as rahman and tawd (mountain) and many others which are used in the great reading.

I am very calm and there is nothing to push back every three years; this has nothing with summer solstice and our friend would have simply written year 1 and the months would continue without change...
http//www.timeanddate.com/calendar/moonphases.html?year=643&n=214
New Moon Date
8-Dec 1. Muharram
1/6/642 2. Safar
5-Feb 3. Rabi' al-awwal
6-Mar 4. Rabi' al-thani
5-Apr 5. Jumada al-awwal
4-May 6. Jumada al-thani
3-Jun 7. Rajab
3-Jul 8. Sha'aban
1-Aug 9. Ramadan
31-Aug 10. Shawwal
29-Sep 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
29-Oct 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
28-Nov 1. Muharram 1 AH
27-Dec 2. Safar
1/25/643 3. Rabi' al-awwal
24-Feb 4. Rabi' al-thani
25-Mar 5. Jumada al-awwal PERF 558 last day of Jumada al-awwal 4/25
24-Apr 6. Jumada al-thani begins 4/26
23-May 7. Rajab
22-Jun 8. Sha'aban
21-Jul 9. Ramadan
20-Aug 10. Shawwal
19-Sep 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
18-Oct 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
17-Nov 1. Muharram 2 AH
17-Dec 2. Safar

There is nothing to be calm or not calm about so enough with the drama and don?t take this so personally.

You are forgetting that prior to the adoption of the purely lunar calendar by our friend, there used to be intercalation. So in the 22 period difference there would have been 7 intercalations, thus pushing the Muharam 1 of the new era of our friend by 7 months. So as I said many times, your Ramadhan is dependent on the following 100% arbitrary and manmade factors

When the new era was made to start.
Which month the new era started with as month 1.
The order of the months.

There is no contradiction.
105 No other way to read than what it exactly says; the moon phases are to know the years.
1712 Moon phases only exist due to sunlight and therefore, the sun is used to know the years.

1712 doesn?t say anything about when it is daylight on the moon. It clearly talks about daylight and night (not the moon) being used to determine the number of years right here on earth. The only way you can use daylight and night to determine the number of years is if you use the interval between longest/shortest daylight/night, in other words the interval between solstices. There is simply no other way and PERF558 confirms that this was the initial practice before the corruption took place.

Peace,

Ayman

quickduck

Peace all of you,

Peace,

Then since you know Arabic and disagree; tell everyone how to fast a FULL MOON?
This year's full moon after solstice July 7th full at exactly 1222PM in the daytime.

http//www.timeanddate.com/calendar/moonphases.html?year=2009&n=214
Moon phases for Riyadh, Saudi Arabia year 2009

FULL MOON Jul 7 1222 PM

Did you see it? Was you quick enough to "fast it"?

1- Did i ever said that the full moon marker was to be witnessed at daylight ? Are you idiot enough to think so?

2- you're talking about the 100 % full moon which you were able to calculate using NASA websites. But what about old civilisations ? What about common people ? what about those who don't have broadband internet a few clics away from their fingers ?
You know very well that the answer to your questions has been posted enough along this thread (Farida knows best the number of pages and the replies locations, she's good at that, she can help you re-read them)..In my case, i'm done with this thread (i haven't Ayman's patience)...that's why i prefer write more" insightful" posts )

I asked a simple question (thanks for proving my point) and I'm familiar with inheritance verses, thank you. sun

Perhaps since you know Arabic so well you can answer the questions at the end of this thread...
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16179.0

We are especially interested in the exact definition of Kalala, Ikhwatan, and the meaning of " to the male equal luck the two females" if that is a general mixed case or if the girls are exactly two...

Please don't post it here (we already know you are gifted in languages), we have enough unanswered questions pertaining to this topic to address -- that is if you like since you are the Arabic expert and know Qur'an so well...

Since i'm done with this thread, i will take a look at inheritance thread. But i'll never post anything before reading the entire 27 pages...
see you there ...)

@ Ayman

It should be ?falyasum alssiyam alathi kutib alaykum? so he should abstain it (the particular abstinence that was dictated on you).

I think you finally convinced me that the hu/it refers to the abstinence, not to the "shahr" . I was wrong, i did not notice that there's another hu/it before that one. i.e wa 3ala allathina yuteeqonahu"
So it's now clear that it means "yuteeqona assiyama allathi kutiba alaykum". in NO WAY people can "afford the month/full-moon with great difficulty".. (yuteequna ash-shahra does make no sense).
Thank you for correcting me )

And by the way, this answers nun-eid-rex-pseudo-guest's 1st part of the question.

I'll answer now the 2nd part
as i said to farida, i started reading this thread since August 7th this year, so when i got convinced by ayman's theory, it was too late to witness the july 7th full moon. No problem, i won't miss it next year if God wills.

Salam all

quickduck

Peace all,

Before i quit posting in this thread, here is a quick summary from quick duck )

1- shahar means obvious, and the only phase when the moon is obvious is the full moon phase.

2 - 1712 tells us that the year is to be calculated using the night and day. thus the only explanation is that the year is solar. wich is completely in sync with the natural god's law of seasons. But some of you keep ignoring this.

3- When you finally realize that 'shahr' means full moon, then you will be able to count exactly 12 in a solar cycle (ie. between 2 solstices) as per 936

4 - the ADJECTIVE Ramadan (hot/scorching) looses its identity if the fasting period drifts all around the year, so it's logical and OBLIGATORY that the fastin period should always occur in the same season.

5 - 936 is clear about the fact that the "four restricted full moons" have to be consective. So again they must be in the same season to preserve the wild life they are meant for. The fact is that sectarians (there are plenty around here) are completly ignoring it.

6- Both hajj and fasting are described as being for a "numbered days" ("Ayyaman ma3doodat/easily counted" as the opposite of "ayyaman 3adeeda" which translates "numerous days&quot. Therefore, "numbered days" is to be 3 days min - 10 days max . Moreover, God told us that hajj is to be completed in 10 days . in the other side, we're told that we must complete the count for fasting period. It leaves no doubt that fasting period is also for 10 days.

7- God tells us that the crescents must be used for timing purposes and for the hajj. So how can you use crescents to count Exactly 10 days for hajj (and fasting as well) if not by starting the count from the full moon marker ? (Surprisingly, the time frame between the full moon stage, and "descending phases"/manazila, down untill the first next crescent is exactly 10 days). Does it ring any bell ?

8- 2184 says that those who can afford IT (fasting ) but with great difficulty may substitute it with feeding the poor, Although fasting is better for them. So there's no retribution for not fasting, but a reward/benefit for it.

9- Since the so-called islamic calendar is prooved to be 100% arbitrary and contradicts the quranic teachings, then it is not worth following it.

10 and last - GOD does not change the condition of any people unless they themselves make the decision to change. If GOD wills any hardship for any people, no force can stop it. For they have NONE beside Him as Lord and Master.

Enjoy your own Ramadan, see you in another thread...

Peace

unknownuser

1- Did i ever said that the full moon marker was to be witnessed at daylight ? Are you idiot enough to think so?

2- you're talking about the 100 % full moon which you were able to calculate using NASA websites. But what about old civilisations ? What about common people ? what about those who don't have broadband internet a few clics away from their fingers ?
You know very well that the answer to your questions has been posted enough along this thread (Farida knows best the number of pages and the replies locations, she's good at that, she can help you re-read them)..In my case, i'm done with this thread (i haven't Ayman's patience)...that's why i prefer write more" insightful" posts

Then you are missing it, cannot distinguish 98% 99% 100% 99% 98% full moon.
Yes the common people mostly have poor vision after a certain age, and the blind, and those indoors, and those living in cloudy places especially during monsoons, etc.

You have no answers and the most hateful of voices is the donkey's bray.

http//www.dinamobomb.net/animations/sports/cheerleader12.gif

Since i'm done with this thread, i will take a look at inheritance thread. But i'll never post anything before reading the entire 27 pages...
see you there ...

@ Ayman
I think you finally convinced me that the hu/it refers to the abstinence, not to the "shahr" . I was wrong, i did not notice that there's another hu/it before that one. i.e wa 3ala allathina yuteeqonahu"
So it's now clear that it means "yuteeqona assiyama allathi kutiba alaykum". in NO WAY people can "afford the month/full-moon with great difficulty".. (yuteequna ash-shahra does make no sense).
Thank you for correcting me

And by the way, this answers nun-eid-rex-pseudo-guest's 1st part of the question.

I'll answer now the 2nd part
as i said to farida, i started reading this thread since August 7th this year, so when i got convinced by ayman's theory, it was too late to witness the july 7th full moon. No problem, i won't miss it next year if God wills.

Bye, don?t forget to check the weather forecast.

unknownuser

Peace Ayman,

So regardless of what 589 says you will continue with your erroneous thinking.

Faman lam yajid fasiyamu shahrayni mutatabiAAayni
584 So who did not find, so fasting two months following each other

You tell people fast 27-30 days and to wait for full moon while it's clear they cannot sleep with their wives.

Where is tarabbusu in above verse which says wait until the next full moon?

2226 Lillatheena yu/loona min nisa-ihim tarabbusu arbaAAati ashhurin
For those who swear away from their women, waiting four months

Please tell everyone what causes the solstice moon illusion and why it appears red and which moons this applies to.

Sure why not http//facstaff.uww.edu/mccreadd/

For the nth time, the illusion a few days BEFORE the solstice is not applicable in your system while the full moon 26-29 days AFTER the solstice is NOT even an illusion; compare moons ? last year June 18th 2008 BEFORE the solstice?

http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/16jun_moonillusion.htm

July 20 1997 full moon was a baby compared to the above and to this full moon in DECEMBER!

http//www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/weather/article5327206.ece

From The Times
December 12, 2008
Look up tonight for a spectacular treat in the sky
Biggest full moon for years enhanced by shooting stars

If the full moon tonight looks unusually large, it is not your imagination ? it is the biggest and brightest full moon to be seen for 15 years.
Each month the Moon makes a full orbit around the Earth in a slightly oval-shaped path, and tonight it will swing by the Earth at its closest distance, or perigee. It will pass by 356,613km (221,595 miles) away, which is about 28,000km closer than average.
The unusual feature of tonight is that the perigee also coincides with a full moon, which will make it appear 14 per cent bigger and some 30 per cent brighter than most full moons this year ? so long as the clouds hold off from blocking the view.

The next closest encounter with a full moon this large will not be until November 14, 2016.
In addition to this lunar flypast, much of Britain may also be treated to a strange phenomenon known as the moon illusion. As the Moon rises in the late afternoon, it will appear even larger as it lies close to the horizon. Psychologists have tried to explain this as a trick of the eye, as the landscape on the horizon appears to make the Moon loom much larger, an effect that disappears as the Moon rises above the horizon, although viewing it through a tube, such as a toilet roll, can make it look large again.
With the Moon approaching so close to the Earth, its gravity will pull a slightly higher tide than normal for a full moon. This so-called perigeal tide adds about 0.5m (1.6ft) to the high-water mark, and with freshening southwesterly winds forecast, this may cause some flooding, especially along parts of the South West coast.
Tonight?s full moon is also notable for rising to its greatest height in the night sky for the entire year, lying almost overhead at midnight. This is because we are approaching the winter solstice, on December 21, and thanks to the tilt of the Earth the Moon appears at its highest, as the Sun is at its lowest.

http//1.bp.blogspot.com/_GwDYFxb8piY/SUQKEuhICmI/AAAAAAAACdw/mAeLyUNqamY/s400/capt.b5851095b0ff4fceb457b3791ba132e8.full_moon_ncfay103.jpg

http//chasblogspot.blogspot.com/2008_12_01_archive.html

It should be ?falyasum alssiyam alathi kutib alaykum? so he should abstain it (the particular abstinence that was dictated on you).

It could go either way. Either way, reading the rest of the passage we know for sure that ?shahr? is a marker and this is why ?how many days to fast? is given, which would be redundant if it was known to be a month. Also, this is the only way around the logical absurdity created by taking ?shahr? to mean month and witnessed being in the perfect past tense (i.e., whoever amongst you witnessed the month should go back in time and fast it).

No it cannot go either way and if so, then how do you fast it a full moon?

unknownuser

I am not supposing anything. It is you who is supposing. The term ?Hijri? doesn?t appear until about a hundred years later. So we don?t really know what this arbitrary dating is based on.

Hmm.. As everyone can see there is no ?Hijri? here. So again you have no idea what the arbitrary start is based on.

Please you are in denial and know very well all these refer to AH...

http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Papyri/jones.html
PERF 558 the month Jumada I of the year Twenty-Two

http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/kuficsaud.html

In the name of God
I, Zuhayr, wrote at the time Umar died in the year four
and twenty (i.e., 24 AH).

http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/wadi1.html

May God have mercy on Yazd ibn ?Abdallh al-Sall and
he wrote in Jumd of the year seven
and twenty (i.e., 27 AH).

http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/urwa.html
Ramadan, 29 AH / May, 650 CE.

http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/hajri.html

In the name of Allh, the Merciful, the Compassionate; this tomb
belongs to ?Abd al-Rahmn Ibn Khair al-Hajr. O Allh, forgive him
and make him enter into Thy mercy and make us go with him.
(passer by) When reading this inscription ask pardon for him (the deceased)
and say amn! This inscription was written
in Jumada II
of the year one and
thirty.

http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Papyri/jerus.html

God, the Compassionate and Merciful.

From al-Hrith b. ?Abd to the people of Nassana

province of Gaza, in the region of al-Halus

Pay quickly to ?Udayy Ibn Khalid of the Bani

Sa?d Ibn Malik the due for Dhl-Qa?dah and

al-Muharram and Safar and the two months of Rabi?

seventy measures of wheat and its equal in oil.

written by Ab Sa?d in Dhl-Qa?dah

in the year 54.

Why did you stop at 624? What happened to 625? You know the answer but as usual, you are deliberately hiding the truth. You know that after three years the lunar cycle will be out of sync with the solar cycle. So this further pinpoints the initial point of corruption since at the start (and for the subsequent three years) the cycle was in sync with the solar cycle and it started with the first new moon after the summer solstice.

How many times did I post that long list of moon data with all the dates? For the nth time it?s the moon cycle ? IT IS NEVER IN SYNC WITH THE SOLSTICE! Why even to explain that new moons happen after the solstice, before the solstice, at the solstice, which you are clearly obsessed with the solstice latching on anything having to do with it and in clear denial ? you know exactly that I?m telling the truth.

Let me know if you need me to post that again and highlight for you each 1st month after the solstice ? if you cannot see or refuse to see that all the dates perfectly align to PERF 558 and the new moon cycle then nothing more to say.

Again, no need to lie about sheep receipts, deaths, dates of battles which perfectly align themselves with a lunar new moon crescent calendar.

Who cares about when Abraha died. The date of the inscription is just 18 years prior to when traditionalists claim prophet Muhammed was born. It is consistent with all other inscriptions in that it doesn?t mention any of the names of the sectarian months but totally different months. Not only that but it also destroys the traditional history. In fact a few years ago MSM Saifullah, the owner of Islamic-Awareness.org emailed me requesting the link to this inscription after he saw it in one of my articles. Why do you think to this day he doesn?t dare to publish this inscription on Islamic-Awarness.org?

The language of all the inscriptions is Arabian but they use different dialects. The 552CE one is in a South Arabian dialect called Sabaic and uses the Musnad script while the 326CE and 267CE are in the North Arabian Old Arabic dialect and use the Nabataean script. The great reading uses both South Arabian and North Arabian terms. Notice, for example, words in the South Arabian inscription such as rahman and tawd (mountain) and many others which are used in the great reading.

There is no information his death only tradition and that he was succeeded by his sons, Yaksum and Masruq; including Stuart Munro-Hay, "Abraha" in Siegbert von Uhlig, ed., Encyclopaedia Aethiopica A-C (Wiesbaden Harrassowitz Verlag, 2003) who dates his death after 553 based on an inscription.

In addition it's a Semitic language obviously some words include Aramaic and Hebrew along with Persian borrowed words. That proves nothing. The only certain is Ramadan, why 11 other are named as such; who knows perhaps did not want to continue using month names associated with paganism as the current days and months of the western calendar.

http//www.therefinersfire.org/days_months1.htm

You are forgetting that prior to the adoption of the purely lunar calendar by our friend, there used to be intercalation. So in the 22 period difference there would have been 7 intercalations, thus pushing the Muharam 1 of the new era of our friend by 7 months. So as I said many times, your Ramadhan is dependent on the following 100% arbitrary and manmade factors

When the new era was made to start.
Which month the new era started with as month 1.
The order of the months.

You are forgetting they knew when Ramadan was obviously so all that was correct moving forward.

They choose the year of the migration
1st month to start the new era
The order of the months based on Ramadan

All we need is one reference point which is PERF 558 and new moon data, roll it all back confirms the dates.

1712 doesn?t say anything about when it is daylight on the moon. It clearly talks about daylight and night (not the moon) being used to determine the number of years right here on earth. The only way you can use daylight and night to determine the number of years is if you use the interval between longest/shortest daylight/night, in other words the interval between solstices. There is simply no other way and PERF558 confirms that this was the initial practice before the corruption took place.

As already stated there was no corruption PERF 558 absolutely confirms that it was a new moons calendar in use and not what you imply -- has ZERO to do with solstice and 1712 does not have to state the obvious?

Sun = lamp which shines on the moon = phases

http//farm3.static.flickr.com/2379/2079031058_9c467520ef.jpg

I have to focus on work, like you have to fly around and this stuff is taking too much time going in circles.

Take care, have nice fast whoever is observing it.

Peace all,

Holiday

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

1712 doesn?t say anything about when it is daylight on the moon. It clearly talks about daylight and night (not the moon) being used to determine the number of years right here on earth. The only way you can use daylight and night to determine the number of years is if you use the interval between longest/shortest daylight/night, in other words the interval between solstices. There is simply no other way and PERF558 confirms that this was the initial practice before the corruption took place.

False dilemma fallacy.

Having night and day doesnt mean that you need a solar year, and it especially doesnt mean that you need to count from solstice to solstice - this is your imiganition.

If we count alternating night and days, then we can count the days in a year - doesnt matter whether you have a solar or lunar year.

BTW, do you have any evidence for monotheists having fasted your way in the past?
The Bible fully confirms the Muslim Ramadan (9th month a the lunar calendar), in case you've missed it.

Peace

noble

Salam Bro quickduck,

You did a good job in your summary of the work on the fasting as prescribed by the Quran, Allah rewards you for that.

I would like to plagiarise the Quran by putting this in from 7175 - 7176 (maybe these ayats refer to Saul/Paul)

The likeness of the sectarian is like that of a dog, if you drive him away, he pants; and if you leave him alone he still pants.
Such is the description of the person who does not listen. -