Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace Nabil,
I am very curious of Ayman's answer to this.
The great reading didn't descend on our lap from the sky. It came through Muhammed, the messenger of the god. I think that Farida is confused because I said that many of the so-called Sahaba probably didn't exist. Since she hero-worships those people, this made her confused. What I am saying is not something amazing or extra ordinary. For example, many researchers think that Abu Hurayra didn't exist and was invented by later generations.
I am also aware of Ayman's positions regarding certain matters in the Quran to be metaphorical / allegorical, and there was a fierce debate between members as to the fact if previous Prophets such as Abraham, David,
Solomon and even Jesus ever existed, or if they were a combination of characters, or an invention of religious leaders... this was of course something the large majority in Free-minds forcefully rejected.All those messengers certainly existed. I don't remember taking part of any such debates and if I ever were then this is what I said.
Ayman proposed a metaphorical explanation to the reality of Jinns and Angels (i.e. that they do not actually exist but in your head as fantasies), this was too forcefully rejected, but he still has some followers.
I never said anything about the Biblical mythical beings wearing white robes and having halos on their heads commonly named Angels and neither did the great reading. The word "malaika" literally means controllers. The controllers are very much real and have nothing to do with fantasies. You can see them performing their duties in everything that happens in the universe.
As for "jinn", you know what pushes you to do wrong and it is not ghosts or aliens. You know the truth and you know where all falsehood comes from.
Now if your analysis / accusation is correct, and he starts arguing that Mohammed is an allegorical figure, then we will act when this happens.
No Muhammed the messenger of the god was a real person. On the other hand, it is sectarians like the people that Farida blindly follows who have fantacized a false Muhammed who split the moon and sits next to the god and takes them into paradise on the day of the account! This false Muhammed, like all idols, is a product of the fantasy/"jinn".
Otherwise, as of now, I find his argument on the counting of the years and months using his quranic and cosmological insights together with the fast directives sound.
For me it is akin to RK, with whom I did not agree with on many points, but who opened my eyes on some.
Ayman does not also always follow a strict scientific method when he peppers statements around, which for me does no good to his credibility.
But he does take risks, and is not paid for what he does. With many of us acting out of fear of the unknown just to defend our status quo, I think he, Layth, Edip Yuksel and a few others have done a lot of good to the Monotheist cause.
If your grave accusations are correct, you will still need to provide proof, i.e. e.g. that he is on the pay roll of some dark agencies.
Salam and Allah's protection to all of us...I think that Farida's "dark agency" accusations are probably the funniest and most bankrupt argument I ever heard on the issue of the timing or any issue for that matter. I hope that you agree that the intelligent reader will recognize that such absurdity doesn't even deserve a reply. As for the unintelligent reader, well we can't help them anyway. As usual, none of those clapping for Farida have attempted to correct her. It shows that they don't really care about her since when someone I care about makes a mistake I try to correct them. I actually feel bad for Farida.
- ...You think they are together but their hearts are dispersed, this is because they are people who do not reason.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace quickduck,
A full moon means 100% disk illumination. Ask your master, he will confirm it. The question you posed should be directed to Ayman. And yes I agree with you that common people and old civilization would not be able to determine a full moon accurately thereby defeating Ayman's screwed-up theory. Finally, you found a contradiction in Ayman's theory but were not intelligent enough to realize it.
rotfl rotfl bravo
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Peace all,
Before i quit posting in this thread, here is a quick summary from quick duck
1- shahar means obvious, and the only phase when the moon is obvious is the full moon phase.
2 - 1712 tells us that the year is to be calculated using the night and day. thus the only explanation is that the year is solar. wich is completely in sync with the natural god's law of seasons. But some of you keep ignoring this.
3- When you finally realize that 'shahr' means full moon, then you will be able to count exactly 12 in a solar cycle (ie. between 2 solstices) as per 936
4 - the ADJECTIVE Ramadan (hot/scorching) looses its identity if the fasting period drifts all around the year, so it's logical and OBLIGATORY that the fastin period should always occur in the same season.
5 - 936 is clear about the fact that the "four restricted full moons" have to be consective. So again they must be in the same season to preserve the wild life they are meant for. The fact is that sectarians (there are plenty around here) are completly ignoring it.
6- Both hajj and fasting are described as being for a "numbered days" ("Ayyaman ma3doodat/easily counted" as the opposite of "ayyaman 3adeeda" which translates "numerous days". Therefore, "numbered days" is to be 3 days min - 10 days max . Moreover, God told us that hajj is to be completed in 10 days . in the other side, we're told that we must complete the count for fasting period. It leaves no doubt that fasting period is also for 10 days.
7- God tells us that the crescents must be used for timing purposes and for the hajj. So how can you use crescents to count Exactly 10 days for hajj (and fasting as well) if not by starting the count from the full moon marker ? (Surprisingly, the time frame between the full moon stage, and "descending phases"/manazila, down untill the first next crescent is exactly 10 days). Does it ring any bell ?
8- 2184 says that those who can afford IT (fasting ) but with great difficulty may substitute it with feeding the poor, Although fasting is better for them. So there's no retribution for not fasting, but a reward/benefit for it.
9- Since the so-called islamic calendar is prooved to be 100% arbitrary and contradicts the quranic teachings, then it is not worth following it.
10 and last - GOD does not change the condition of any people unless they themselves make the decision to change. If GOD wills any hardship for any people, no force can stop it. For they have NONE beside Him as Lord and Master.
Enjoy your own Ramadan, see you in another thread...
Peace
bravo now waiting to get some bashing from Faridahttp//img32.imageshack.us/img32/4852/bepolite.gif
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I would just like to add something to the discussion on the real meaning of Ramadan. I have just read a book entitled "Islam a concise introduction" by Neal Robinson and according to him, Ramadan does indeed mean "scorcher" and in pre-Islamic Arabia, since the Arabs operated with a luni-solar year, it was a direct reference to the midsummer month. After arriving in Medina, Mohammad ordered his followers to fast on Ashura (the Jewish Day of Atonement). Shortly afterwards, Ashura was identified with the tenth of Muharram (the first month of the Muslim Year). However, after the Muslims broke up with the Jews, the obligatory month-long fast of Ramadan was instituted and the observance of Ashura became optional. Here is how Neal Robinson explains it
1- prescribed fasting on the Jewish Day of Atonement. The reference to "days" implied that the Muslims also fasted in the period leading up to it. In addition to Ashura, they may have fasted on the first three days of every month, as some traditions suggest.
2- was added, instituting the fast of Ramadan.
3- was added to make clear that fasting should not begin before dawn.In addition, shortly before the Prophet died, he received a revelation which abolished the lunisolar calendar and replaced it with a purely lunar one. This had the effect of making Ramadan migrate through the seasons as it does now.
For those who don't know, the break between the Muslims and Jews occured as a result of Mohammad's followers attacking a caravan in Medina, which resulted in bloodshed. Hostilities began to arise between the two groups, and according to the author, God ordered the Muslims to distinguish themselves from the Jews this is why the qibla changed from Jerusalem to Mecca, and the days of fasting changed from the Ashura to the Ramadan that we know today.Another interesting remark according to Neal Robinson, some commentators cite a tradition to the effect that the first Christians were ordered to fast in Ramadan, but that finding this too arduous, they moved the fast to the spring and extended it by twenty days as a penance for what they have done. From what I have understood, the writer does not find this account historically accurate (?).
I hope that I was clear enough for everyone to understand. I am only relating what I read, in case someone might be interested in a different view.
Peace,
Muse
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Peace Ayman,
I have been very confused and messed up too in my life, you know, so I do tend to forgive up to a large point.
Again off track, Jinns' cosmogony in the Quran convinces me that they are other beings, and in fact the truth
about them is probably far more fantastic than I may imagine, and among other things they seem to have the ability
to seep into humans dna in subjects of particular weaknesses/boodlines, but this is very classified research results. -
Peace Progressive1993,
Since you bothered to give a little more thought and accordingly decided to change your response, I will reply to you this time. But be forewarned that if you do not read 1712 intelligently without preconceptions and instead keep repeating the same thing over and over again, then I will resume ignoring you.
Let me change my reposne (above) a bit, which was to the following
In the lunar calendar, night and day are also used to calculate the days of the year - it's not like the sun is ignored.No they are not used to calculate the days of the year. There is no such concept as a "year" in a lunar calendar. One can easily make a purely lunar calendar with 1, 2, ... 13, 14, 15, ...etc. lunar months. There is no inherent number of cycles that one must "reach" or "break" at such as 12 in a purely lunar calendar. You have essentially been counting lunar cycles since year 0 AH and it doesn't matter what you call them or if you reuse the names every 12 names since their names are meaningless anyway. This is why the lunar calendar is 100% dependent on the actual month 1 that you started counting from. In order to count 12, you have to have a start and an end for the population that you are counting from. There is no such thing in a purely lunar calendar with no inherent start or end.
It is your imagination that says that we need the solstices for that we need the solstices for that, or other things of the like.
If we use our brains, we can incorporate the counting of alternating nights and days to calculate the number of days in a year, using the lunar calendar - it's simple.In a purely lunar calendar the day and night cannot tell you the number of years. There is nothing inherent in day and night from which you can figure out the lunar cycle or that you need to stop counting after 1, 2, ?12 or 13 or 14.. etc. lunar cycles.
1712 mentions ONLY the day and night as a way to determine the number of years. No full-moon no crescent no any moon. How can you determine the number of years using ONLY the day and night? This is the question. We should not try to change the question to match our preconceptions.
The answer is that the way to determine the number of years using ONLY the day and night is to count the interval between the longest/shortest day/night (i.e., the solstices). If you have a better answer then I am all of it but don?t try to change the question.
936 The count of the months with God is twelve months in God's book the day He created the heavens and the earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them. Fight those who set up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. Know that God is with the righteous.
We know that one year consists of 12 lunar months- each 24-hour day is counted by alternating night and day. You count the days in the 12 lunar months and then you have the number of days in a year.In order to ?count?, you need to know the population that you are counting out of. This is not about labeling a month XYZ, ABC, KMN... and then repeating again 12 months later the labels XYZ, ABC, KMN... since XYZ, ABC, KMN... are meaningless and you can just as well call ABC as CBA or XYZ or RST. So just repeating the meaningless labels while endlessly continuing to count out of an endless population is not counting 12. This is why the present day sectarian Ramadhan is 100% dependent on when month 1 was. You are now counting month # 17169 and haven?t stopped the counting at 12. If you took month 2 as month 1 then the present sectarian Ramadhan would have been month 17168 and you would be fasting next month. So as I said, because you haven?t stopped counting with 12 as ordered in 936 and instead kept counting, your present day month #17169 is tied to your month 1 and can never be independent from it. So you have now been violating 936 for the past 17157 lunar months.
I hope that my reply has been professional and courteous. If there is anything in it that is not clear then I will try to explain but I will not go in circles and repeat things that were already explained numerous times on this thread.
Peace,
Ayman
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I would just like to add something to the discussion on the real meaning of Ramadan. I have just read a book entitled "Islam a concise introduction" by Neal Robinson and according to him, Ramadan does indeed mean "scorcher" and in pre-Islamic Arabia, since the Arabs operated with a luni-solar year, it was a direct reference to the midsummer month. After arriving in Medina, Mohammad ordered his followers to fast on Ashura (the Jewish Day of Atonement). Shortly afterwards, Ashura was identified with the tenth of Muharram (the first month of the Muslim Year). However, after the Muslims broke up with the Jews, the obligatory month-long fast of Ramadan was instituted and the observance of Ashura became optional. Here is how Neal Robinson explains it
1- prescribed fasting on the Jewish Day of Atonement. The reference to "days" implied that the Muslims also fasted in the period leading up to it. In addition to Ashura, they may have fasted on the first three days of every month, as some traditions suggest.
2- was added, instituting the fast of Ramadan.
3- was added to make clear that fasting should not begin before dawn.In addition, shortly before the Prophet died, he received a revelation which abolished the lunisolar calendar and replaced it with a purely lunar one. This had the effect of making Ramadan migrate through the seasons as it does now.
For those who don't know, the break between the Muslims and Jews occured as a result of Mohammad's followers attacking a caravan in Medina, which resulted in bloodshed. Hostilities began to arise between the two groups, and according to the author, God ordered the Muslims to distinguish themselves from the Jews this is why the qibla changed from Jerusalem to Mecca, and the days of fasting changed from the Ashura to the Ramadan that we know today.Another interesting remark according to Neal Robinson, some commentators cite a tradition to the effect that the first Christians were ordered to fast in Ramadan, but that finding this too arduous, they moved the fast to the spring and extended it by twenty days as a penance for what they have done. From what I have understood, the writer does not find this account historically accurate (?).
I hope that I was clear enough for everyone to understand. I am only relating what I read, in case someone might be interested in a different view.
Peace,
Muse
If you acknowledge that the Quran was authored by God, then you wouldnt believe this BS.
I don't have any time to explain why, now... maybe tomorrow.Peace
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If you acknowledge that the Quran was authored by God, then you wouldnt believe this BS.
I don't have any time to explain why, now... maybe tomorrow.Peace
I am sorry, I thought I was clear when I said that I was RELATING what I had READ in case somebody was INTERESTED in a DIFFERENT point of view.
Peace and Happy Ramadan,
Muse
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I am sorry, I thought I was clear when I said that I was RELATING what I had READ in case somebody was INTERESTED in a DIFFERENT point of view.
Peace and Happy Ramadan,
Muse
Piece of advice, don't act like a cronie if you don't want to get bullied in this thread. rotfl
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I am sorry, I thought I was clear when I said that I was RELATING what I had READ in case somebody was INTERESTED in a DIFFERENT point of view.
Peace and Happy Ramadan,
Muse
Peace
Piece of advice, don't act like a cronie if you don't want to get bullied in this thread. rotfl
rotfl rotfl
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I am sorry, I thought I was clear when I said that I was RELATING what I had READ in case somebody was INTERESTED in a DIFFERENT point of view.
Peace and Happy Ramadan,
Muse
Sry, didnt read the whole thing - didnt have much time,
But...
that doesnt change the fact that it is total BS, does it? (Includes the abrogation theory, doesnt know that fasting in the 9th month of the lunar calendar is an ancient monotheist practice, etc.)
Have a nice Ramadan peace
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Peace quickduck,
You know very well that Ayman cannot get anything right. You should let him speak/write. That way it is more fun. He is Mr. contradiction. And you are following him. Why are you speaking for him. Did cat got his tongue? You are the one who is worshipping Ayman, we worship the lord of universe.
Peace Guest
I thought we all worshiped the LORD OF THE UNIVERSE as He created everything, we also know Him as the LORD of the HEAVENS AND THE EARTH and Everything between it. Everything He created is a sign to us if only we knew how to intepret it.
May God help us and have mercy on us and guide us.
Peace
Hope
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Peace Muse,
Welcome to the thread and I apologize for the rudeness of Progressive1993. Hopefully, you have read enough of the thread to understand his frustration.
I would just like to add something to the discussion on the real meaning of Ramadan. I have just read a book entitled "Islam a concise introduction" by Neal Robinson and according to him, Ramadan does indeed mean "scorcher" and in pre-Islamic Arabia, since the Arabs operated with a luni-solar year, it was a direct reference to the midsummer month. After arriving in Medina, Mohammad ordered his followers to fast on Ashura (the Jewish Day of Atonement). Shortly afterwards, Ashura was identified with the tenth of Muharram (the first month of the Muslim Year). However, after the Muslims broke up with the Jews, the obligatory month-long fast of Ramadan was instituted and the observance of Ashura became optional. Here is how Neal Robinson explains it
1- prescribed fasting on the Jewish Day of Atonement. The reference to "days" implied that the Muslims also fasted in the period leading up to it. In addition to Ashura, they may have fasted on the first three days of every month, as some traditions suggest.
2- was added, instituting the fast of Ramadan.
3- was added to make clear that fasting should not begin before dawn.I think that if one reads between the lines, one can see traces of the original timing amongst the corruption. Using Gregorian to Hijri converters, Muharam 1 of the first year of the new era converts to the first new moon crescent after the summer solstice. So originally the marker for the beginning of the year was the summer solstice. If the actual start of Muhrram was the scorching full-moon (shahr ramadhan) then indeed the Muslims would have fasted in the days leading up to and including the tenth of the first month (Muharram). At that time people would have still known the ramadhan/scorching full moon as the event marking the start of Muharram and not as the name of the month. Also, by its name ?Muharam? would make more sense as the first of the restricted period and not the third.
In addition, shortly before the Prophet died, he received a revelation which abolished the lunisolar calendar and replaced it with a purely lunar one. This had the effect of making Ramadan migrate through the seasons as it does now.
For those who don't know, the break between the Muslims and Jews occured as a result of Mohammad's followers attacking a caravan in Medina, which resulted in bloodshed. Hostilities began to arise between the two groups, and according to the author, God ordered the Muslims to distinguish themselves from the Jews this is why the qibla changed from Jerusalem to Mecca, and the days of fasting changed from the Ashura to the Ramadan that we know today.
Another interesting remark according to Neal Robinson, some commentators cite a tradition to the effect that the first Christians were ordered to fast in Ramadan, but that finding this too arduous, they moved the fast to the spring and extended it by twenty days as a penance for what they have done. From what I have understood, the writer does not find this account historically accurate (?).
I hope that I was clear enough for everyone to understand. I am only relating what I read, in case someone might be interested in a different view.There was definitely no break between the Muslims and the Jews. The relationship soured during the Abbasid period and this is when those traditions about the Jews were invented. On the other hand, the Romans and the Jews themselves speak of a very strong alliance between the Jews and the Arabs well into the Umayyad period. For example, here is what the Jewish Rabbi Simon ben Yohai wrote around 680CE- describing the second king of the Arabs ('Umar I)
?The second king who arises from Ishmael will be a lover of Israel. He restores their breaches and the breaches of the Temple. He hews Mount Moriah, makes it level and builds a mosque (hishtahawaya) there on the Temple rock, as it is said "Your nest is set in the rock."? (Source Hoyland, Seeing Islam as Others Saw it).
Umar was clearly a champion of Zionism. The Romans equally talk in their writings about being invaded by an alliance between the Jews and the Arabs. They speak for example about the Jews and the Arabs upon defeating them and entering Jerusalem going to a place that the Romans used as a dump and cleaning it up and building two shrines side by side, one for the Arabs and one for the Jews. For all we know, Umar himself might have been an Arab-Jew who converted but still harbored Zionist ideas.
I think that the corruption of the timing can be understood in light of this relationship between the Jews and the Arabs (who reverted to their pagan tendencies after the death of the prophet). I briefly provided some thoughts here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg220236#msg220236
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Nabil,
The great reading didn't descend on our lap from the sky. It came through Muhammed, the messenger of the god. I think that Farida is confused because I said that many of the so-called Sahaba probably didn't exist. Since she hero-worships those people, this made her confused. What I am saying is not something amazing or extra ordinary. For example, many researchers think that Abu Hurayra didn't exist and was invented by later generations.
All those messengers certainly existed. I don't remember taking part of any such debates and if I ever were then this is what I said.
I never said anything about the Biblical mythical beings wearing white robes and having halos on their heads commonly named Angels and neither did the great reading. The word "malaika" literally means controllers. The controllers are very much real and have nothing to do with fantasies. You can see them performing their duties in everything that happens in the universe.
As for "jinn", you know what pushes you to do wrong and it is not ghosts or aliens. You know the truth and you know where all falsehood comes from.
No Muhammed the messenger of the god was a real person. On the other hand, it is sectarians like the people that Farida blindly follows who have fantacized a false Muhammed who split the moon and sits next to the god and takes them into paradise on the day of the account! This false Muhammed, like all idols, is a product of the fantasy/"jinn".
I think that Farida's "dark agency" accusations are probably the funniest and most bankrupt argument I ever heard on the issue of the timing or any issue for that matter. I hope that you agree that the intelligent reader will recognize that such absurdity doesn't even deserve a reply. As for the unintelligent reader, well we can't help them anyway. As usual, none of those clapping for Farida have attempted to correct her. It shows that they don't really care about her since when someone I care about makes a mistake I try to correct them. I actually feel bad for Farida.
- ...You think they are together but their hearts are dispersed, this is because they are people who do not reason.
Peace,
Ayman
3545 And if God were to punish the people for what they have earned, He would not leave a single creature standing. But He delays them to a predetermined time. Then, when their time comes, then God is Seer of His servants
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Peace Muse,
Welcome to the thread and I apologize for the rudeness of Progressive1993. Hopefully, you have read enough of the thread to understand his frustration.
I think that if one reads between the lines, one can see traces of the original timing amongst the corruption. Using Gregorian to Hijri converters, Muharam 1 of the first year of the new era converts to the first new moon crescent after the summer solstice. So originally the marker for the beginning of the year was the summer solstice. If the actual start of Muhrram was the scorching full-moon (shahr ramadhan) then indeed the Muslims would have fasted in the days leading up to and including the tenth of the first month (Muharram). At that time people would have still known the ramadhan/scorching full moon as the event marking the start of Muharram and not as the name of the month. Also, by its name ?Muharam? would make more sense as the first of the restricted period and not the third.
There was definitely no break between the Muslims and the Jews. The relationship soured during the Abbasid period and this is when those traditions about the Jews were invented. On the other hand, the Romans and the Jews themselves speak of a very strong alliance between the Jews and the Arabs well into the Umayyad period. For example, here is what the Jewish Rabbi Simon ben Yohai wrote around 680CE- describing the second king of the Arabs ('Umar I)
?The second king who arises from Ishmael will be a lover of Israel. He restores their breaches and the breaches of the Temple. He hews Mount Moriah, makes it level and builds a mosque (hishtahawaya) there on the Temple rock, as it is said "Your nest is set in the rock."? (Source Hoyland, Seeing Islam as Others Saw it).
Umar was clearly a champion of Zionism. The Romans equally talk in their writings about being invaded by an alliance between the Jews and the Arabs. They speak for example about the Jews and the Arabs upon defeating them and entering Jerusalem going to a place that the Romans used as a dump and cleaning it up and building two shrines side by side, one for the Arabs and one for the Jews. For all we know, Umar himself might have been an Arab-Jew who converted but still harbored Zionist ideas.
I think that the corruption of the timing can be understood in light of this relationship between the Jews and the Arabs (who reverted to their pagan tendencies after the death of the prophet). I briefly provided some thoughts here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg220236#msg220236
Peace,
Ayman
3510 Whosoever is seeking pride, then know that to God belongs all Pride. To Him ascend the good words, and they are exalted by the good deeds. And as for those who scheme evil, they will have a painful retribution, and their scheming will fail.
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Peace quickduck,
You are shaking hand with the devil.
358 The one whose evil work is adorned and he sees it as being good. God thus misguides whom he wills, and He guides whom He wills. So do not let yourself grieve over them. God is fully aware of what they are doing.
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I would just like to add something to the discussion on the real meaning of Ramadan. I have just read a book entitled "Islam a concise introduction" by Neal Robinson and according to him, Ramadan does indeed mean "scorcher" and in pre-Islamic Arabia, since the Arabs operated with a luni-solar year, it was a direct reference to the midsummer month. After arriving in Medina, Mohammad ordered his followers to fast on Ashura (the Jewish Day of Atonement). Shortly afterwards, Ashura was identified with the tenth of Muharram (the first month of the Muslim Year). However, after the Muslims broke up with the Jews, the obligatory month-long fast of Ramadan was instituted and the observance of Ashura became optional. Here is how Neal Robinson explains it
1- prescribed fasting on the Jewish Day of Atonement. The reference to "days" implied that the Muslims also fasted in the period leading up to it. In addition to Ashura, they may have fasted on the first three days of every month, as some traditions suggest.
2- was added, instituting the fast of Ramadan.
3- was added to make clear that fasting should not begin before dawn.In addition, shortly before the Prophet died, he received a revelation which abolished the lunisolar calendar and replaced it with a purely lunar one. This had the effect of making Ramadan migrate through the seasons as it does now.
For those who don't know, the break between the Muslims and Jews occured as a result of Mohammad's followers attacking a caravan in Medina, which resulted in bloodshed. Hostilities began to arise between the two groups, and according to the author, God ordered the Muslims to distinguish themselves from the Jews this is why the qibla changed from Jerusalem to Mecca, and the days of fasting changed from the Ashura to the Ramadan that we know today.Another interesting remark according to Neal Robinson, some commentators cite a tradition to the effect that the first Christians were ordered to fast in Ramadan, but that finding this too arduous, they moved the fast to the spring and extended it by twenty days as a penance for what they have done. From what I have understood, the writer does not find this account historically accurate (?).
I hope that I was clear enough for everyone to understand. I am only relating what I read, in case someone might be interested in a different view.
Peace,
Muse
496 O you who believe, if a wicked person comes to you with any news, then you shall investigate it. Lest you harm a people out of ignorance, then you will become regretful over what you have done.
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Piece of advice, don't act like a cronie if you don't want to get bullied in this thread. rotfl
Peace Rami
Very childish, sound like a playground bully. If you want to do that sort of thing, I am sure you are in the wrong chat room, try yahoo.
Peace
Hope
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358 The one whose evil work is adorned and he sees it as being good. God thus misguides whom he wills, and He guides whom He wills. So do not let yourself grieve over them. God is fully aware of what they are doing.
Say Surely Allah makes him who will go astray, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).
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Peace Nabil,
I have been very confused and messed up too in my life, you know, so I do tend to forgive up to a large point.
Again off track, Jinns' cosmogony in the Quran convinces me that they are other beings, and in fact the truth about them is probably far more fantastic than I may imagine, and among other things they seem to have the ability to seep into humans dna in subjects of particular weaknesses/boodlines, but this is very classified research results.I would be interested in learning more from you. Generally speaking though, I have found the universal concepts talked about in the great reading surprisingly easy to understand once one gets to see beyond preconceptions. So my intuition tells me that "jinn" is similarly something that everyone can empiricaly verify in their everyday lives without the need to look into DNA or any highly classified research.
Peace,
Ayman