Collection of the quran, before or after muhammad
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255 They said, "Mythologies of the ancient people; he wrote them down while they were being dictated to him morning and evening."
961 Read in the name of your Lord who has created.
963 Read, and your Lord is the Generous One.
964 The One who taught by the pen
Anymore doubt?
The individual would still be able to get away with saying "oh they just wrote it on separate parts, but no collections into one whole". One would need either a contradicting hadith, or the isnad of the said hadith to be weak or explained. Or the quran saying that the quran was completed...
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If we consider the arrangement of the Quran.. the mathematical composition behind it and so on... there is no doubt that the Quran was already compiled in the time of the Messenger himself under his own supervision who, himself was under the direct supervision of Allah... So I guess we should not care about these compilation stories... considering the so many incoherent report on this matter we have from hadiths.. Like missing surahs, missing verses, the size of Quran shrinked, Abu Bakr omitted some verses purposely etc etc... It will be a headache which goes for nothing as we got no point of reference to verify these stories... the main moral of the story is... the Quran reached us... Allah made it reach us... Allah is its Guardian... So, we should not be worrying about the Quran .... Let his Guardian take care of it.
Peace
Where is that original Quranic script which was written in the Time of Muhammad PBUH ?
Waiting for evidence.
Regards -
2210
Are they waiting until GOD Himself comes to them in dense clouds, together with the angels? When this happens, the whole matter will be terminated, and to GOD everything will be returned.Do you need God to give you the book in your hand so you can become righteous?
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and what's the oldest Quran we have today?
Peace
Question is not that of "oldest" or newest". I am asking about that script which was supposedly got written by Prophet Muhammad PBUH. That should be the original and most reliable.
Where is that ? Is this lost?Regards
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Probably this one.
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/hussein.html
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/Peace ;
Mushaf-e-uthmani was written during era of Hazrat Uthman RA. I am talking about that Script which was written during the life of Prophet MUhammad PBUH which is being claimed.
Where is that Original script ? Because then all problems are solved like 19er about verse of Sura Tauba.
Regards -
Peace ;
Mushaf-e-uthmani was written during era of Hazrat Uthman RA. I am talking about that Script which was written during the life of Prophet MUhammad PBUH which is being claimed.
Where is that Original script ? Because then all problems are solved like 19er about verse of Sura Tauba.
RegardsAs you can see in these links none are from Uthman ra time.
It is just a name they were given to.
peace -
The individual would still be able to get away with saying "oh they just wrote it on separate parts, but no collections into one whole". One would need either a contradicting hadith, or the isnad of the said hadith to be weak or explained. Or the quran saying that the quran was completed...
I'd counter with
7517 It is for Us to collect it (jamahu) and relate/compile it (quranahu).
7518 So when We relate/compile it, you shall follow its reading.
7519 Then it is for Us to explain it.
618 They wish to put out God's light with their mouths, but God will continue with His light, even if the concealers of the truth/rejecters/ingrates (kafiroon) hate it.
BTW, as seen from the above verses, God collected and compiled/related the Quran/reading.
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I'd counter with
7517 It is for Us to collect it (jamahu) and relate/compile it (quranahu).
7518 So when We relate/compile it, you shall follow its reading.
7519 Then it is for Us to explain it.
618 They wish to put out God's light with their mouths, but God will continue with His light, even if the concealers of the truth/rejecters/ingrates (kafiroon) hate it.
BTW, as seen from the above verses, God collected and compiled/related the Quran/reading.
Peace These traslations might be true.
How is it that mushaf is the same as written in the era of Prophet Muhammad PBUH.
Secondly that contains those two verses which you (your messenger RK) has removed.So do you believe in them ?
Regards -
Peace
I have a burning question. If there existed a Quran in the time of the prophet e.g. written in the supervision or by the prophet, how come it is lost? How irresponsible of the people of the day to have misplaced or lost the most important book of all time. Surely people would have lost their lives and taken precausions to make sure of its safety and preservation. This really puzzles me. However, there is no denying that over the years the Quran has managed to find its way back, otherwise we would have found many contradictions, right? Probably why the Quran was memorised and also writen down to help its preservation. I dont think however, that anyone in this forum has the answer and that unless we get unbiased access into the middle east to carry out archaeological finds we wont understand our past.
Peace
Hope
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Just a name ? Evidence ?
RegardsYou funny sometimes ;D (no offense)
An archeological eveidence is not enough for you.
The links explains that the Uthman Quran is date end of 1 century, begining od 2nd century (Hijri).
So either Uthman lived long long time, either there were NOT from Uthman time.Choose the one that best fits your "understang", "wishes", "passion" or call it however you like.
Peace
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You funny sometimes ;D (no offense)
An archeological eveidence is not enough for you.
The links explains that the Uthman Quran is date end of 1 century, begining od 2nd century (Hijri).
So either Uthman lived long long time, either there were NOT from Uthman time.Choose the one that best fits your "understang", "wishes", "passion" or call it however you like.
Peace
Definitely agree on this... The 'Manuscripts of Sana' found in yemen are the oldest known quranic parchment ever discovered I think....
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Quran never tells us to
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go find the 'mushaf' of mohamed
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go find some codex in a museum
Rather, it is preserved in rememberance/eminence, dhikr. That's why it tells us to ask ahl adh adhikr.
We dont need to be Indiana bleedin' Jones to have the 'original quran'. Rather we need to ask these archeologists and historians
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why do they trust conflicting accounts of quran's compilation? (mostly in hadith literature)
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why is it, when quran calls itself 'kitab', they dont take it to mean its compiled as a book?
think about it Would the messenger (even if he was a false messenger, he'd want to selfishly preserve his falsehood) and this band of fanatics treat the book as if its something they can afford to lose?
and strangely, Muslims today swallow this tripe about quran's compilation
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I'd counter with
7517 It is for Us to collect it (jamahu) and relate/compile it (quranahu).
7518 So when We relate/compile it, you shall follow its reading.
7519 Then it is for Us to explain it.
618 They wish to put out God's light with their mouths, but God will continue with His light, even if the concealers of the truth/rejecters/ingrates (kafiroon) hate it.
BTW, as seen from the above verses, God collected and compiled/related the Quran/reading.
Aye alhamdulillah.
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Salam all,
@hope4
If the original copy written at the time of Prophet Muhammad still exited today, it would have proven many ahadith as fabricated, which claim that the quran was compiled at the time of the third kaliph, and that some verses are missing, etc. So if there truely was a conspiracy to prove the ahadith authentic, then it would seem logical to get rid of the original copy which would otherwise put the authenticity of these ahadith at risk. However that is an openion, and openions are no substitute for truth. peace -
As abdalquran points out, the compilation story as found in traditional accounts contains much variance/contradiction.
In addition to the book I mentioned in this thread, there is also this book which rejects the traditionally accepted compilation account
http//www.amazon.com/Collection-Quran-John-Burton/dp/0521296528/The most surprising feature of the Muslim traditions on the collection of the Qur'n is their denial of any role in the process to Muhammad himself. The merit of assembling and preserving the record of the momentous divine revelations has been variously ascribed to some half dozen of the Prophet's associates or Companions, and these ascriptions have usually been treated as hopelessly conflicting. Dr Burton argues that they are in perfect agreement. Their sole function was the deliberate exclusion of Mohammed.
Why does he think the above happened? Well check out what he says
A crisis seemed imminent when in the second Muslim century (roughly between 850-950) certain legal views which were agreed between the schools were rejected by a powerful fundamentalist group on the ground that they were not mentioned in the Quran texts. Two replies were offered the first, that the Prophet himself had legislated on these matters, proved unsatisfactory since it raised the problem of the repeal of the Quran; the second suggestion, that these matters had been treated in the Quran and the relevant verses omitted on the assembly of the texts, ensured that medieval Islam would regard the mushaf as incomplete. This certainty necessitated the placing of the collection of the Quran in the period following the Prophet's death.
John Burton is also the author of translating and discussing one of the earliest Arabic works on "abrogation", in which he favours the argument that the theory of "abrogation" in flawed http//www.amazon.com/Sources-Islamic-Law-Theories-Abrogation/dp/0748601082/
