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  3. Pilgrimage (Hajj)
  4. Hajj are months well known!!

Hajj are months well known!!

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Pilgrimage (Hajj)
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    Cushan
    wrote on last edited by
    #45

    http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597976.30

    Cool thanks.

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      Ahmad_Bilal
      wrote on last edited by
      #46

      Torah means Law. It is different from Mitzva. So Torah is certain portions in the Pentateuch.

      Rambam said that the Torah contains 613 Mitzvot which is a bit inaccurate. Rambam and Rashi were always misreading the text to push their theology to the people.

      How is this inaccurate? How many mitzvot does the Torah contain, according to you??

      I disagree with your statement that Rambam and Rashi were "ALWAYS" misreading the text. That's just not true at all. Many of their teachings are amazingly similar to the doctrines of Qur'aanic Islaam today, including concepts that others may have disagreed on... For example, Rambam describes God as being omniscient and omnipresent, having no physical body, something the Qur'aan agrees on. And this was during a period when many Jews disagreed with this idea, believing God to be a giant invisible ruler high in the sky. He also mentioned many factors about serving God ALONE, even while many Jews condoned praying "through" objects or rabbis. And he also preached about the future day of judgement and the resurrection, ideas that many Jewish people during that time disagreed with or didn't understand... So, if he was trying to 'push his theology' on the people, what's wrong with that if his theology was correct? He wasn't misreading anything, he was just putting things in a broader perspective...

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        Rami
        wrote on last edited by
        #47

        How is this inaccurate? How many mitzvot does the Torah contain, according to you??

        I disagree with your statement that Rambam and Rashi were "ALWAYS" misreading the text. That's just not true at all. Many of their teachings are amazingly similar to the doctrines of Qur'aanic Islaam today, including concepts that others may have disagreed on... For example, Rambam describes God as being omniscient and omnipresent, having no physical body, something the Qur'aan agrees on. And this was during a period when many Jews disagreed with this idea, believing God to be a giant invisible ruler high in the sky. He also mentioned many factors about serving God ALONE, even while many Jews condoned praying "through" objects or rabbis. And he also preached about the future day of judgement and the resurrection, ideas that many Jewish people during that time disagreed with or didn't understand... So, if he was trying to 'push his theology' on the people, what's wrong with that if his theology was correct? He wasn't misreading anything, he was just putting things in a broader perspective...

        Go read the Torah text without any preconceived notions and see whether you will still agree with Rambam or not.

        An example of Rabbinical misreading of the texts.

        http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=idvNbVArpIc&feature=channel_page
        http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6FP4by156s&feature=channel_page

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          Ahmad_Bilal
          wrote on last edited by
          #48

          Go read the Torah text without any preconceived notions and see whether you will still agree with Rambam or not.

          An example of Rabbinical misreading of the texts.

          http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=idvNbVArpIc&feature=channel_page
          http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6FP4by156s&feature=channel_page

          You still haven't shown when or how Rambam and Rashi ALWAYS misread the text of the Torah. Can you give some examples? And as I said, many of their ideologies completely coincide with Islaam, definately moreso than Karitical Judaism and other non-Rabbinical groups...

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            Rami
            wrote on last edited by
            #49

            You still haven't shown when or how Rambam and Rashi ALWAYS misread the text of the Torah. Can you give some examples? And as I said, many of their ideologies completely coincide with Islaam, definately moreso than Karitical Judaism and other non-Rabbinical groups...

            The Torah is radically different from the Quran. They don't confirm each other. Their basic teachings are contradictory. The Torah is based on the burnt offerings and the temple and the Quran is based on Salat and Zakat. Eschatology is not even similar.

            If you think the Quran confirms the Torah, why do the Jews reject the Quran completely. They don't accept it for example and follow the Torah.

            Now, Rambam and Rashi were affected by Muslim thought at the time, so to cope, they went on a 'metaphorical' frenzy, they flipped the Torah upside down to try to match the superior ideology -Islaam- which was taking all men by storm because of its very purposeful orientation.

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              Cushan
              wrote on last edited by
              #50

              I don't think that's really so much the case with Rashi. And to the credit of... well, not Rabbis, but various Jewish thinkers, the evolution of Judaism beyond shamanism started well before the time of Christianity or historical Islam.

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                Ahmad_Bilal
                wrote on last edited by
                #51

                The Torah is radically different from the Quran. They don't confirm each other. Their basic teachings are contradictory. The Torah is based on the burnt offerings and the temple and the Quran is based on Salat and Zakat. Eschatology is not even similar.

                If you think the Quran confirms the Torah, why do the Jews reject the Quran completely. They don't accept it for example and follow the Torah.

                Are you serious?!?! o

                And if you are in doubt as to what We reveal to you, then question those who read the scripture that was before you (i.e. Torah). (1094)

                But why do they ask you to judge among them, when they have the Torah containing Allah's law? Then they turn back after this; these are not believers. (543)

                The people of the Evangel shall rule in accordance with Allah's revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with Allah's revelations are the wicked. (547)

                The Qur'aan claims to confirm the Torah. All the ideas mentioned within the two books are not the same, but they're not supposed to be. The scripture says this

                We have sent down the Book to you in truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a standard of comparison for it; therefore judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you; for each of you We have ordained a law and a way of doing things. If God wished, He would have made you a single community, but He tests you according to what He has given you, so compete with each other in doing good. Your return is to God, and then He will let you know about that in which you differed. (54

                This passage says that each group (i.e. Jews, Muslims, Nazarenes, etc.) was given different laws and rites of their respective systems. Then, it says that Allah tests us according to what He sent down to each community. In other words, Jews are supposed to uphold their own scriptures, Nazarenes are supposed to uphold their own scriptures, and Muslims are supposed to uphold their own scriptures. None of these scriptures are identical to the last, and this is because Allah is testing us, to note whether we'll uphold the guidance that He sent down. Jews aren't expected to adhere to the Qur'aan, since doing so would be a violation of their teachings. Likewise, Muslims aren't required to uphold the whole of the Torah, since doing so would be a violation of our teachings. That's why the passage explicitly says not to follow their wishes "if they differ from the truth that came to you". It doesn't say their teachings are WRONG, they are just different from ours... But to say the two are 'NOT EVEN SIMILAR' is a complete lie and it's ridiculous; it shows that you obviously haven't objectively studied the Torah or the Qur'aan...

                Now, Rambam and Rashi were affected by Muslim thought at the time, so to cope, they went on a 'metaphorical' frenzy, they flipped the Torah upside down to try to match the superior ideology -Islaam- which was taking all men by storm because of its very purposeful orientation.

                Ummm... Okay...

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                  Rami
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #52

                  The Nazarene have a guidance?

                  What is it?

                  Where is it?

                  What is the relation of the House to all of this different systems?

                  God says explicitly that the PERFECT system is four restricted months in a year. Go say this to any Jew and he will be bluffed.

                  Why isn't the perfect system found in the Torah?

                  What happened?

                  What happened to the Injil?

                  Why is the Injil has no relation to Abraham's hajj?

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                    Ahmad_Bilal
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #53

                    The Nazarene have a guidance?

                    What is it?

                    Where is it?

                    What is the relation of the House to all of this different systems?

                    God says explicitly that the PERFECT system is four restricted months in a year. Go say this to any Jew and he will be bluffed.

                    Why isn't the perfect system found in the Torah?

                    What happened?

                    What happened to the Injil?

                    Why is the Injil has no relation to Abraham's hajj?

                    Why wouldn't the Nazarenes have guidance? The study and practice Torah...

                    The Torah is contained in the Hebrew Bible, the first 5 (or in some cases 7) books of Moses.

                    The "House" is the foundation of all the Abrahamic systems. It's not a literal "house", but rather it's a position, one of pure monotheism and peaceful submission to Allah alone...

                    First of all, who said this "perfect system" isn't found in the Torah? Besides, I just showed you, from the Qur'aan, that the Jews and Muslims have DIFFERENT RITES AND BELIEFS. All of the beliefs are not inherently the same.

                    What happened to the "Injeel"/Evangel? How should I know? I don't have it... Perhaps it's been lost over time, been concealed by religious leaders who think it will pose a threat to Christianity, or even contained within another book. We don't know for sure, all we have are speculatory arguments...

                    I don't understand the last question. What "hajj" of Abraham are you talking about, and what does it have to do with the Evangel? Jesus brought the message of the Evangel long AFTER Abraham...

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                      herbman
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #54

                      Hi all,

                      Is surat Quraish linked to hajj?

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                        Ahmad_Bilal
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #55

                        Is surat Quraish linked to hajj?

                        I guess that's a possibility that it's speaking about their "hajj", but we don't know for sure. It could be talking about almost any form of travel, and many commentators have taken this to be referring to the travel of the Qurayish people to carry on their trade, especially since it's directly speaking about the summer and winter months...

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