Hot/"ramadan" Answer
-
Peace herbman,
why fail?
the Quran was revealed in Middle East Time, so?
on Earth you cannot escape relative times wherever you are - you need a point of reference ( a time frame)...
as for God's Time, I do not think there is any... that is only for us...
so using lunar or luni-solar, you will still have days that will "fall" in different seasons
but they are the same days.
The leylat Qadr Day was a special day when the Quran was revealed (or downloaded to use a word that now defines it even better), it was a full moon in Jerusalem just after the Summer Solstice, and wherever else you were on the globe
whatever the moon phase that was the day.
There is no test to be applied, irrelevant... your brain-storming idea is not useful, throw it in the bin.
As for the people in New Zealand, they had their own messengers at the time, tough for them, Mohamed's
message had not reached them yet ;DSalam
Noble
Hi all, Peace,
just a thought....
new moon depends on our geographical location on earth, it can start at J for some and J+1 for others regardless of the hemisphere (north or south).
Then logically for some "laylat al qadr" will be at one night and for the others it will be at one night +1. So the same month we have 2 laylat al qadr!!!!!
This is IMPOSSIBLE as per surat 97.
This test failed!So either we use the astronomical definition of the new moon, where moon earth and sun are synchronized and therefore it means that WE CANNOT WITNESS IT.
as per 2185.
This test failed!In the other case we can say or think, it (new moon) has to be at prophet Muhamad's location! But then someone in New Zeeland has to know and or follow the news coming from Mecca (Muhamad supposed location) to know when he needs to start the fast, which is possible today but was not possible 50 years ago, and we don't know if it will be still possible in the future.
So not easy to determined.
This test failed!Peace
-
so you are saying
light removes darkness = day
absence of light = night
so light determines day and night?
61 - Praise be to GOD, who created the heavens and the earth, and made the darkness and the light. Yet, those who disbelieve in their Lord continue to deviate.
Dark is a reality just as much as light is a reality. Therefore, your second postulate is wrong (satanic) and since the third postulate depends on the second it is in the toilet.
You are trying to contradict the Quran (your hidden agenda) by asking silly question such as ?absence of light = darkness?. You are only going to fool yourself and not the believer. Satanic scheme is flimsier than the spider web.
Try your stupidity with Ayman, he likes this kind of stuff.
-
So you agree that Darkness depends on the presence of the light . Ok , so where DID Einstein contradict GOD ??
Also , Notice that CREATING is Different from MAKING...Had GOD not created heavens, the earth would still exist.
In opposite, had GOD not MADE the light, it will be no darkness. you can call it whatever you want but NOT darkness.No, I don't agree with you.
As the Earth spins, we move through the light, into the darkness, and back again.
-
Peace guest
for once something we can agree on, nothing like a Quran ayat to settle an argument.
as one who has believed, i will therefore concur with you that their definition of darkness need overhauling.
but, let us not make the mistake that because people make mistakes, we take it as an excuse to reject
all their work sundry.
you too need some spring cleaning in your approach, and by the way not everything that is not yet understandable
is necessarily satanic... we cut ourselves from a lot of opportunities with such an attitude...
and i find it even worse in those who argue against the existence of Jinns (and by extension of Satan) as real beings, as they put
themselves and those who accept the view in great danger, because how can you defend yourself from something you do not believe exist...
regarding the subject of this thread, i accept something only when i get convinced by it for myself, and it has nothing to do with Ayman, or whoever, it just clicks as the normal natural divine system to follow, and that the Quran is progressive, not regressive, which means with ijtihad, we have room to improve our deen, by Allah's leave, albeit with the core foundation of monotheism and reality intact, i.e. all what is described in the Quran is binding, but not what was written or done in the past for which we are not responsible, we are responsible for our present, and our future, and those entrusted to us... and Allah is showing, because we are suffering...
if we were doing as we are supposed to, things will be very easy, really...
it has been downhill since Imam Shafie, Bukhari and the Abassids... -
Don't you see why the Muslims are so backward, because of backward thinking like yours, and
Muslims are backward because of people like you. You should be ashamed of yourself.
the Sun revolves around the Earth.
That?s what Ayman still believe. And you are his advocate. What does that say.
-
No, I don't agree with you.
As the Earth spins, we move through the light, into the darkness, and back again.I think i have to ask you again DO YOU FEEL THE EARTH SPINNING RIGHT NOW ? DO YOU SEE THE SUN FIXED IN THE SKY ?
If not, so nobody does . But if you do, then you are the only one amongst god's creatures.
for every earth being, (except YOU ) the sun IS THE responsible for day and night. NOT the earth, NEITHER the moon !You mean would I be able to foil a satanic scheme. You bet, I will. The God always guides and protect his servents.
Dark is a reality just as much as light is a reality. Therefore, your second postulate is wrong (satanic) and since the third postulate depends on the second it is in the toilet.
I agree with you . Even stupidity is a reality and it's not the absence of intelligence . you are a living proof of it !
Salam -
Peace guest
So your method to your winning arguments when you are losing them is to become abusive, charming.
I will not lower myself to your level, your place is not discussing in a Real Muslim forum, but among like
minded people in waziristan and tora bora...
You are the shame, and will take this responsibility with you on the day of judgment.
My sins are enough for me, but they certainly do not include covering the truth as you do...
I look for the Truth...
You are arrogant, and you think you already have the Truth...
Who is Satan's minion? -
61 - Praise be to GOD, who created the heavens and the earth, and made the darkness and the light. Yet, those who disbelieve in their Lord continue to deviate.
Dark is a reality just as much as light is a reality. Therefore, your second postulate is wrong (satanic) and since the third postulate depends on the second it is in the toilet.
You are trying to contradict the Quran (your hidden agenda) by asking silly question such as ?absence of light = darkness?. You are only going to fool yourself and not the believer. Satanic scheme is flimsier than the spider web.
Try your stupidity with Ayman, he likes this kind of stuff.
SubhanAllah
I know people here are just jealous of your intelligence but I'm just trying to learn, I enjoy reading your posts. bravo
so according to your understanding In the night time people actually do not experience "absence of light" but they experience darkness because there is no light of the sun in the night times? or may be the light is there its just us who are unable to see the light because of utter darkness?
-
I think i have to ask you again DO YOU FEEL THE EARTH SPINNING RIGHT NOW ? DO YOU SEE THE SUN FIXED IN THE SKY ?
If not, so nobody does . But if you do, then you are the only one amongst god's creatures.
for every earth being, (except YOU ) the sun IS THE responsible for day and night. NOT the earth, NEITHER the moon !I agree with you . Even stupidity is a reality and it's not the absence of intelligence . you are a living proof of it !
SalamJust a few post ago you said earth-moon-sun relationship is elementary school problem. How come you are asking elementary questions now? Shame on you.
The earth is spinning whether you like it or not. Every day around 4 AM I see planet Venus (?) from my window (looking east). First I see it on the horizon and then in matter of 15-30 minutes I see it moved noticeably higher. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that either earth is moving, or Venus is moving, or both are moving (one may be faster than the other). Did that answer your question.
As for the other question "DO YOU SEE THE SUN FIXED IN THE SKY ?", this is laughable. No I don't see sun fixed in the sky. I see sun in the horizon, then high up, and then back to horizon again. And you are calling this fixed. Shame, shame, shame.
-
CAN YOU READ ARABIC? YES OR NO ?
Anyway, i did copy paste the word "" in the link you provided. here is the answer
( ب
.
. . .
.
.
.
. . .
.
.
. .
.
.
.
.
. .
.
.
.
. .
. .
.
.
.
.
. .
.
.
.Assuming you can read arabic (which is not very sure) , tell us what's the main meaning of ?
Everyone can read (except you) that it means most of the time , something obvious/wellknown..and everyone can read (except you) that only one of its meaning can be "month". And this is because it is related to a (shahar/obvious) moon . ie. full moon.As you can see, the only source claiming that means crescent (ل is a hadithic source...
the hadith says "fast the shahr and it's secret part " " it leaves no doubt, even from a hadith source (lol) that the moon has its obvious part " / full moon" and its secret part " / crescent".
you're trapped in your own hole !!!Peace all,
Thank you very much for using Arabic evidence, and not Amharic (Ethiopian) as Ayman did, in order to argue about the true arabic meaning of Shahar.
Non of the above shows that the Word Shahar= Full moon...But in one of the meaning (one of the tens suggested uses) says the following (the part that you highlighted in red)
Translate as follow (Word by Word)
And the Month the Moon, it was named like this due to its bright appearance; and they said, WHEN IT SHOWS (the Moon) and ALMOST CLOSE TO BEING FULL.
Does that gave you a hint that he is not talking about THE FULL MOON, rather, something is gradually becoming FULL MOON...What that thing could be? !
By the way, most, if not all of the above Arabic dictionary, which you quoted, suggest that the Word Shahar = the Length of the MOON CYCLE (29 to 30 days)...Can you deny this?
-
By the way, most, if not all of the above Arabic dictionary, which you quoted, suggest that the Word Shahar = the Length of the MOON CYCLE (29 to 30 days)...Can you deny this?
i don't deny this, and i never did !!
What i said is in arabic, we can also use the word friday to mean week, and spring/summer to mean year. eg i'll be traveling for a friday (i'll be traveling for one week) because friday in this case, is used as a marker of the week (obvious "marker" because of friday's prayer = easy to remember/count, jut like the shahr/full moon is used to mean a month since the month can be described as the time frame between 2 full moons (obvious markers easy to remember/count).. that's it !And don't forget, you have 4 other arguments to refute, and then we can discuss.
Salam
-
i don't deny this, and i never did !!
In our efforts to eliminate stupidity, I will explain to you what I wrote
The Arabic dictionary that you quote suggests that Shahar means the period between the first appearance of the Moon, not the full moon, to second appearance--Waxing Crescent to the next waxing Crescent.
Peace all,
Thank you very much for using Arabic evidence, and not Amharic (Ethiopian) as Ayman did, in order to argue about the true arabic meaning of Shahar.
Non of the above shows that the Word Shahar= Full moon...But in one of the meaning (one of the tens suggested uses) says the following (the part that you highlighted in red)
Translate as follow (Word by Word)
And the Month the Moon, it was named like this due to its bright appearance; and they said, WHEN IT SHOWS (the Moon) and ALMOST CLOSE TO BEING FULL.
Does that gave you a hint that he is not talking about THE FULL MOON, rather, something is gradually becoming FULL MOON...What that thing could be? !
By the way, most, if not all of the above Arabic dictionary, which you quoted, suggest that the Word Shahar = the Length of the MOON CYCLE (29 to 30 days)...Can you deny this?
Do you still agree? Because what you wrote either you made unintentional mistake or we are letting Stupidity takes over again...then I will act the same when arguing.
-
The Arabic dictionary that you quote suggests that Shahar means the period between the first appearance of the Moon, not the full moon, to second appearance--Waxing Crescent to the next waxing Crescent.
1- Note that this "suggestion" is only from hadith interpretation , and yours as well...All other meanings of shahr are related to something obvious...
2- for this point, i still agree with you , BOTH MEANINGS ARE CORRECT
shahr = night of full moon (original marker) = month (period between 2 full moons in day to day language).just like
friday = 6th day of the week (original marker) = week (period between 2 fridays) in day to day language) .and also,
spring = season from march 21 to june 20 (original markers) = Year (period between 2 springs in day to day language )
I really want to discuss, so let's put stupidity behind us ok ?
Salam
-
1- Note that this "suggestion" is only from hadith interpretation , and yours as well...All other meanings of shahr are related to something obvious...
2- for this point, i still agree with you , BOTH MEANINGS ARE CORRECT
shahr = night of full moon (original marker) = month (period between 2 full moons in day to day language).Peace,
I will give this one more chance...you still ignoring that the translation and the meaning of your own evidence
Translate as follow (Word by Word)
And the Month the Moon, it was named like this due to its bright appearance; and they said, WHEN IT SHOWS (the Moon) and ALMOST CLOSE TO BEING FULL.
The above does not suggest Full Moon, rather, Waxing Crescent.
Now, I will move to another issue. If what you and Ayman are proposing, we should ignore the moon #13 when calculating a Year, then, can you calculate for us the following, after reading this
4615 And We enjoined man to do good to his parents. His mother bore him with hardship, gave birth to him in hardship, and his bearing and weaning lasts thirty months. So that, when he has reached his independence, and he has reached forty years, he says My Lord, direct me to appreciate the blessings You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents, and to do good work that pleases You. And let my progeny be righteous. I have repented to You; I am of those who have submitted.
46151-How many years are in the 30 month period that is mentioned in the above verse?
2-How many Months (full moon to full moon period, or Waxing Crescent to Waxing Crescent) are in the 40 years period mentioned in the above verse?
Please let us give it one more chance to end this in an intelligent way.
Any one wants to answer, please do so.
peace
-
Peace Belal,
1-How many years are in the 30 month period that is mentioned in the above verse?
This has already been answered. try to read before going in circles
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg215872#msg215872
2-How many Months (full moon to full moon period, or Waxing Crescent to Waxing Crescent) are in the 40 years period mentioned in the above verse?
Please let us give it one more chance to end this in an intelligent way.This is a stupid question. How old are you? Do you know anyone who counts his or her age in lunar months?
Peace,
Ayman
-
Then why did you reply me with 60 days? why not 58 or 59 days?
(when i asked you the question, "if God asks you to do something for two months , how many days in total you would do it for" ?)
siki
Belh
I am still waiting for your response on the above question that i asked sometime back.
siki
-
Welcome back! It's been almost a year...
Thanks and Peace to u..in fact i am always hooking up to FM although I'm not posting..FM is truly opensource !
I wouldn't consider 2 as part of ma3duudat, since it's mentioned as an exception for special circumsatnces of what would be accepted outside the ma3duudaat.
Minimum of ma3duudat 3
Maximum 10-
That is what I am thinking before (2 days is exception), but after looking at the verse 2203 again & again, my perspective have been changed.
where 2 days was describe as acceptable period for remembrance and no explicit maximum no of days specified. -
The 3 days siyaam fil hajj (or 10 days for a man/women who have their family coming together?) is a compensation imposed (fidyah min siyamin aw sodaqatin aw nusuqin 2196) for inability to send offering > due to inability to perform hajj within even a minimum of 2 days as specified in 2203. See that Quran is very specific when it comes to precision matters where 3 was clearly mentioned.
-
In short, you have to compensate with 3 days siyaam if you cannot make even 2 days remembrance
-
If you managed to make 2 days remembrances, do we still need to compensate with 3 siyaam ? !
-
Why 2 days be regarded as "exception"? Further, there is no "Illa" mentioned anywhere in this verse.
-
Thus ayyaman ma3dudat definition as per quran shall incorporate minimum 2 days..(anybody agree or mind boggling with this argument?) ;D
Peace, Ashraf
-
-
Salaam,
In my opinion, there is a clue on how we can determined scientifically the exact time when the very "1st" night of "scorching full moon" (or near full moon) happen, thus we can verify the year when quran was descended.
Quran was descended during Lailatul Qadr where during this special event night, the intensity of brightness, surface heat or temperature of the moon shall equivalent to 1000 ordinary full moon (other than this very unique night).
Probably there was someone outside there who is brilliant to work our the celestial object study of this very special moon.
Peace, Ashraf