Fish is haram 4 Quran Alone adept according to Sunni Cheikh
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Hi all,
Fish is haram 4 Quran Alone adept according to Sunni Cheikh Salem Al Amry because of verse 53
Yusuf Ali translation
Forbidden to you (for food) are dead meat, blood the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah, that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows that is impiety. This day have those who reject Faith given up all hope of your religion yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.Please see and comment,
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS9S5uDpma4Thanks
the fish is haram is non sense, he dont know how the hadits/sunna describe that the two blood is halal (fish and locust) . to understanding quran we must completed with hadits as describer of quran. If quranic view is neglected from hadits, the conclusion is meaningless.
crab - is halal said Atha' dan Imam Ahmad.( Al-Mughni 13/344 Ibnu Qudamah and Al-Muhalla 6/84 by Ibnu Hazm).
turtle - is halal as opinion of Abu Hurairah, Thawus, Muhammad bin Ali, Atha', Hasan Al-Bashri dan fuqaha' Madinah. (Al-Mushannaf (5/146) Ibnu Abi Syaibah , Al-Muhalla (6/84).
sea dog - also halal, as opinion of imam Malik, Syafe'i, Laits, Syai'bi dan Al-Auza'i (see Al-Mughni 13/346).himawan
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peace UmAlawi,
Re 593
aim
3rd person plural masculine perfect verb, i.e. an action done/completed. I think it can be taken as the present perfect tense, hence the translations, but my grammar knowledge is not good. See M.Asad's note.6118 and 6119 are in the perfect tense also.
Re recorded tape.
I either read or watched something about it. It was several years ago so do not recall the source. As far as I'm aware, it was most. Not saying it is wrong, I'm just saying that is what commonly happens as far as I know.peace Layth,
Thanks for the clarification.
In 6121 the verb is imperfect tense, does that make any difference? Which is more accurate according to the Arabic
And do not eat of that which has not been mentioned God's name on it...
OR
And do not eat of that not mentioning God's name on it...Also, it is in the passive form, meaning the subject is receiving the action expressed in the verb, i.e. whatever one is about to eat.
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Peace Layth,
This indicates that the act of mentioning God's name must be done in the past, before it ever reached the person who is about to eat it. Therefore, that dispells that notion that the name of God can simply be mentioned at any time after the animal is slaughtered to make it permisible.
Also, note that the issue of God's name mentioned at the slaughter is the only option that makes sence when we look at other verses that deal with what foods are lawful or unlawful
6145 Say, "I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except carrion, running blood, the meat of pigs, for it is contaminated, or anything (not just meat) blasphemously dedicated to other than God." If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then your Lord is Forgiver, Merciful.
6118 So eat from that on which God's name has been mentioned, if you indeed acknowledge His signs.
6119 Why should you not eat that on which God's name has been mentioned, when He has sufficiently detailed to you what has been made forbidden; except what you are forced to? Many misguide by their desires without knowledge; your Lord is fully aware of the transgressors.
6121 Do not eat from what God's name has not been mentioned, for it is vile. The devils inspire their supporters to argue with you; and if you obey them, then you have set up partners.
Where do you see 'mention God's name on MEAT' in the above verses?
What happens if you want to eat a cucumber? Do you 'slaughter' it while mentioning God's name?
The thing is that we (each individual) have to mention God's name upon anything that we eat - not just meat. It is not for us to guess if someone else did it for us already.@ himawansutanto
the fish is haram is non sense, he dont know how the hadits/sunna describe that the two blood is halal (fish and locust) . to understanding quran we must completed with hadits as describer of quran. If quranic view is neglected from hadits, the conclusion is meaningless.
6145 Say, "I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden except that it be already dead, or blood poured forth, or the meat of pig, for it is foul; or what is corruptly dedicated to other than God." Whoever is forced without seeking disobedience or transgression, then your Lord is Forgiving, Compassionate.
6114 "Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this Scripture fully detailed?" Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.
6115 The word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
opinion of Abu Hurairah, Thawus, Muhammad bin Ali, Atha', Hasan Al-Bashri dan fuqaha' Madinah. (Al-Mushannaf (5/146) Ibnu Abi Syaibah , Al-Muhalla (6/84).
Good for Abu Hurayra and his friends.
456 These are God's signs that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His signs do they believe?
6112 We have permitted the enemies of every prophet, human and Jinn devils, to inspire in each other fancy words in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.
6113 That is so the hearts of those who do not acknowledge the Hereafter will listen to it, and they will accept it, and they will take of it what they will.
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salam Progressive,
Where do you see 'mention God's name on MEAT' in the above verses?
What happens if you want to eat a cucumber? Do you 'slaughter' it while mentioning God's name?
The thing is that we (each individual) have to mention God's name upon anything that we eat - not just meat. It is not for us to guess if someone else did it for us already.I have never heard this new line of thinking that the subject matter is not even meat!
So, going by this argument, the cucumber, since it is arriving "dead" to your table is forbidden by the law of 6145.
Here is another verse from sura 6 that will perhaps help you keep on track
6138 And they said ?These livestock and crops are reserved, and none shall eat from them except as we please,? by their claims; and
livestock whose backs are unlawful, and livestock over which they do not mention the name of God as an innovation against
Him. He will recompense them for what they invented. -
Peace Layth,
have never heard this new line of thinking that the subject matter is not even meat!
This indicates that the act of mentioning God's name must be done in the past, before it ever reached the person who is about to eat it. Therefore, that dispells that notion that the name of God can simply be mentioned at any time after the animal is slaughtered to make it permisible.
Also, note that the issue of God's name mentioned at the slaughter is the only option that makes sence when we look at other verses that deal with what foods are lawful or unlawful
So, going by this argument, the cucumber, since it is arriving "dead" to your table is forbidden by the law of 6145.
Carrion is prohibited, not dead vegetables (see 53). I don't think that many people eat things that are alive.
Here is another verse from sura 6 that will perhaps help you keep on track
6138 And they said These livestock and crops are reserved, and none shall eat from them except as we please, by their claims; and
livestock whose backs are unlawful, and livestock over which they do not mention the name of God as an innovation against
Him. He will recompense them for what they invented.My point is that 6145, 618-19 and 621 don't talk about mentioning God's name on meat specifically, but on food in general. It says that we are not allowed to eat that on which God's name has not been mentioned (which is to be done by ourselves).
6119 Why should you not eat (anything, not just meat) that on which God's name has been mentioned, when He has sufficiently detailed to you what has been made forbidden; except what you are forced to? Many misguide by their desires without knowledge; your Lord is fully aware of the transgressors.
6121 Do not eat (anything, not just meat) from what God's name has not been mentioned, for it is vile. The devils inspire their supporters to argue with you; and if you obey them, then you have set up partners.
6145 Say, "I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except carrion, running blood, the meat of pigs, for it is contaminated, or anything (not just meat) blasphemously dedicated to other than God." If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then your Lord is Forgiver, Merciful.
These verses talk about eating food/mentioning God's name on food IN GENERAL, not just meat. That alone shows that mentioning God's name during slaughter is not necessary - it can/should be mentioned before eating.
Peace
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Salam progressive,
Carrion is prohibited, not dead vegetables (see 53). I don't think that many people eat things that are alive.
Carrion? Interesting, I do not find that word anywhere in the Quran (the Arabic is "mayta" which is "that which is dead" - so, by that definiton alone, and using the same logic you used, it can be vegtable or meat or any other organic matter.
But, I guess since you now realize the problem that having anything other than animal in the subject matter will produce you will not be pushing this line of thought any further.
Peace.
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Peace Layth,
Salam progressive,
Carrion? Interesting, I do not find that word anywhere in the Quran (the Arabic is "mayta" which is "that which is dead" - so, by that definiton alone, and using the same logic you used, it can be vegtable or meat or any other organic matter.
Correct, and that is why we have 53 to clarify (giving a definition to "mayta"
53 Forbidden to you is what is already dead, and the blood, the meat of pig, and animals dedicated to other than God. The strangled, killed by a blow, fallen from height, gored, eaten by wild animals except what you managed to rescue, and those slaughtered on altars... Also what you divide through gambling. This is all vile. Today the ingrates have given up from your system, so do not revere them, but revere Me. Today I have perfected your system for you, completed My blessings upon you, and I have accepted peaceful surrenderas the system for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
54 They ask you what was made lawful to them, say, "All the good things have been made lawful for you, and what the trained dogs and birds catch; you teach them from what God teaches you." So eat from what they have captured for you and mention God's name upon it, and be aware of God. God is quick in reckoning.
When dogs or birds catch/kill animals, we cannot (necessarily) mention God's name upon it, that's why we are instructed to do so afterwards.
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UmAlawi,
I just googled it, there are a few mentions of it here and there, e.g.
The other option to slaughter Halal chicken meat is mechanized slaughter. This slaughter is too fast for proper blessing. A solution postulated is to have a tape-recording of the slaughter blessing played while the chickens are slaughtered on the belt. This practice is questionable in terms of being permissible or Halal. Another controversy is the stunning of animals. This is done with a hammer, stun guns, etc. This practice is also not certain to be Halal.
Source.
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Salam,
Correct, and that is why we have 53 to clarify (giving a definition to "mayta"
Good - we agree. And we use 6138 to clarify that the subjet matter is a living animal (and not a cucumber).
Now, knowing that the subject of 6121 is an animal, and knowing that the mention of God's name was done proceeding te arrival of the meat for eating, and knowng that in 6138 the rejecters slaughter animals without mentioning God's name as an innovation, then, I can conclude that the requirement to mention God's name is during the death of the animal and not afterwards.
54 They ask you what was made lawful to them, say, "All the good things have been made lawful for you, and what the trained dogs and birds catch; you teach them from what God teaches you." So eat from what they have captured for you and mention God's name upon it, and be aware of God. God is quick in reckoning.
When dogs or birds catch/kill animals, we cannot (necessarily) mention God's name upon it, that's why we are instructed to do so afterwards.
Sorry, but you have made 2 errors in your analysis above
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Hunting with trained birds/dogs requires the person to be with these animals at the time of the hunt (you re not in a hut watching TV waiting forthetrained bird/dog to bring the catch to you), therefore, when they are launched (assuming they have damaged the prey) you are still able to retrieve the caught animal with life in it as the entire pocess fom capture to delivery might take seconds (while the death of an animal - if youve ever killed a sheep or chicken - takes a few mintues).
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Please read verse 54 carefully, God does not use His words at random. It says 'trained and it says catch/caught. These are not wild dogs and birds who will rip out the throat of their prey, but are ones that have been trained to behave in a certain way. Also, we are told 'what they catch' and not 'what they kill', confirming my first point that these animals are still alive when they are retrieved.
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Peace,
Respectfully.You should visit London, especially Edgware Road, next to Marble Arch.
The Edgware Road is basically small version of Lebanon where sunnis pretend to be Muslims and sell alcohol, watch women's breats throught he smoke of sheesha and miss sunset prayers on purpose because they have to do business eat lots of shwarma lamb with chips (fries), smoke a lot, drink constantly due to big bellies and of course drive around in German cars.They prohibit everything that local imam tells them and at the same time, they allow themselves what they inner-self orders, which they blindly obey in the nazi-style"Jawohll, My Fuhrer!!!!!"
Peace.
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Thank you very much for your kind wishes, UmAlawi.
I hope you and your family members will come to agreement that is good for all of you. -
Salam Layth,
Nice to see you posting again. )
Why must dhikr mean "mention" in these verses? Could it not mean remember?
6121 mentions shaytan/devil as a contrast to dhikr, just like 591.
How do you understand 593, since it says we can eat any food as long as we believe and do good work? The usage of self-awareness/taqwa is very important here.
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Salam Jack,
I never had a chance to congratulate you on being a mod - good job )
Why must dhikr mean "mention" in these verses? Could it not mean remember?
6121 mentions shaytan/devil as a contrast to dhikr, just like 591.
How do you understand 593, since it says we can eat any food as long as we believe and do good work? The usage of self-awareness/taqwa is very important here.
The answer (whether dhikr is 'mention' or 'remember' would depend on the context of its use.
For example, in 2160 the context is clearly 'mention' (i.e. they said 'we heard a youth named Abraham mention them'.
In 1863, we havethe context as "remember" (i.e. the devil made me forget to remember the fish).
In the context of this discussion, I read it as "mention" rather than remeber (especially when we look to supporting verese that hve to do with slaughter such as 6138 and 2234, 2236 to recall a few.
On 593, far from being a licence for the believers to eat what they will, it is a very consoling verse saying that the believers will not bear sin for what they eat as long as they are rightoues, believe, and do good works; then are rightoues and believe; then are rightoues and make right - therefore, the believers will not be judged for what they eat as long as they are undergoing the process of betterment and rightouesness - immediately after in 594 you get the verse on the restriction of hunting which ties in smoothly with this leinency.
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Salam Jack,
I never had a chance to congratulate you on being a mod - good job
??? I thought you made him a mod. confused
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Peace all,
my stand on food in the west...
any non meat i eat...
any halal meat (without checking) i eat...
any meat by people of the book (without checking), apart from the meat of pork i eat...
i will consider eating anything coming from the sea...
i will not eat meat from other religious groups (such as satanists, that's a no brainer,
and the other ones i will not mention for politically correct reasons )
i feel very comfortable in the above following the spirit and the letter of the Quran -
Salam Jack,
I never had a chance to congratulate you on being a mod - good job )
The answer (whether dhikr is 'mention' or 'remember' would depend on the context of its use.
For example, in 2160 the context is clearly 'mention' (i.e. they said 'we heard a youth named Abraham mention them'.
In 1863, we havethe context as "remember" (i.e. the devil made me forget to remember the fish).
In the context of this discussion, I read it as "mention" rather than remeber (especially when we look to supporting verese that hve to do with slaughter such as 6138 and 2234, 2236 to recall a few.
On 593, far from being a licence for the believers to eat what they will, it is a very consoling verse saying that the believers will not bear sin for what they eat as long as they are rightoues, believe, and do good works; then are rightoues and believe; then are rightoues and make right - therefore, the believers will not be judged for what they eat as long as they are undergoing the process of betterment and rightouesness - immediately after in 594 you get the verse on the restriction of hunting which ties in smoothly with this leinency.
Salam Layth,
Thanks.
Anyways, doesn't matter either way. Whether you mention/remember, the idea is to be mindful of God in all the actions we do, including slaughtering animals
3191
Those who remember God while standing, and sitting, and on their sides, and they ponder in the creation of the heavens and the earth "Our Lord you did not create this without purpose, be You glorified, spare us the retribution of the Fire!"
4103
So when you are done with the bond, then remember God while standing, or sitting, or on your sides. Then, when you are relieved, you shall hold the bond. Certainly, the bond for the believers is a scheduled ledger.
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Salam Munzir,
I was part of the process, but it was the other mods who initiated and then executed the addition of the new mod.
Wow a democracy. LOL! yay
peace!
