Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Do I smell Hadith's argument? rotfl You can't quite being Imam.
Peace
For this group every thing "ibne kathir " Ibne Jarir " are ok provided it may help them from some remote interpretation.
Such type of contradiction is a clear indication of lack of knowledge and arguement .
It happens when "A drowning man catches at a straw".
Regards -
Salam,
War Is Prohibited during these Moon Cycles
There was a Battle that Prophet Mohamed was preparing for During Heat Season (summer)You still not getting the big picture.... There was a battle BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO DEFEND THEMSELF... read again Al-Quran, The God never allowed aggression....
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Peace all,
Ayman, please allow me to evaluate another argument of yours
One of the factors that affects when present-day so-called Ramadan starts depends on when the start of the so-called Islamic calendar was set. For example, had its start been set for three years earlier, then this year the dating of Ramadan would have been a month earlier. As I mentioned above, we know from verifiable archeological evidence that the new calendar was established around 638 AD, long after the prophet's time. Several generations later, a story circulated that Omar decided after consultation with others to make the year of the "hijra" the first date of the new era. So the timing of Ramadan today is dependent not only on the sighting of the new crescent moon but on an arbitrary decision that was made many centuries ago.
If Omar started to change from Solar Calender to Lunar in year 638 AD is TRUE
And if the Prophet used to Fast During July Month and his companion up to year 637 AD before Omar Change the Calender (Scorching Moon) Is TRUE
Then Ramadan Month Should have been in July, 638AD, and then started to change gradually due to Omer Calender.Now is the above hypotheses (the underlined part) is TRUE based on the un-disputable date fact?
The result is NO.
Monday 3 Rajab 17 A.H. falls on July 21, 638Now, can you see why I do not agree with your hypotheses...Simply because your hypotheses can't be validated using sound and un-disputable data.
I hope you can understand my argument my position now...it is never been about you or suni or any one, but it is about my God given brain that I have to use in order to reach the Truth.
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Salam,
You still not getting the big picture.... There was a battle BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO DEFEND THEMSELF... read again Al-Quran, The God never allowed aggression....
Peace,
The prophet was ordered to wait until the four restricted months ended before starting the war...hence, he was not under attack, which would allow him to defend his town even if were during the Restricted Moon Cycles.
However, he was ordered to start wars in order to free the Holly Land, and in some wars to help the oppressed people whom were tortured due to their religion. And in all these kind of wars, He was never a transgressor.Now, with respect to the war that is mentioned in 981, it is clear that it was not an immanent war, which He was under attack.
When reading 983, clairly it shows that the Prophet was at war away from the town in which he lived.So, if God sends you back to a group of them, and they ask your permission to come with you, then say You will not come with me ever; nor will you fight any enemy with me. You had accepted staying behind the first time, so stay with those who remain behind.
983Peace
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There was a Battle that Prophet Mohamed was preparing for During Heat Season (summer)
How do you know it was during the summer? , there was a heat wave and famine during the whole year of the (btw never to happen)
Battle of Tabuq...
As I lived in the Sahara desert, I was born there, I know what I am talking about...I have unignored you temporarily.
Tell your other slanderer mate that to be a student, he needs to be ready to learn, an attribute he seems to lack and so do you, and you are both very selective in the reading of posts, just groping at what dazzles you and running away building arguments (usually flawed at that) against it.
Also I was seduced by Layth proposal, but it loses out on several grounds...
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Peace Arista,
You still not getting the big picture.... There was a battle BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO DEFEND THEMSELF... read again Al-Quran, The God never allowed aggression....
Thank you for pointing out the obvious that should have been clear to anyone who has read the great reading. If you have been following this discussion then you probably know by now that Belal never read 2217 and is hopelessly unaware of the fact that, as you said, fighting is ALWAYS allowed in self-defense (even during the restriction period) and is NEVER allowed in agression.
Peace,
Ayman
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Ayman, please allow me to evaluate another argument of yours
If Omar started to change from Solar Calender to Lunar in year 638 AD is TRUE
And if the Prophet used to Fast During July Month and his companion up to year 637 AD before Omar Change the Calender (Scorching Moon) Is TRUE
Then Ramadan Month Should have been in July, 638AD, and then started to change gradually due to Omer Calender.Now is the above hypotheses (the underlined part) is TRUE based on the un-disputable date fact?
The result is NO.
Monday 3 Rajab 17 A.H. falls on July 21, 638
Now, can you see why I do not agree with your hypotheses...Simply because your hypotheses can't be validated using sound and un-disputable data.
I hope you can understand my argument my position now...it is never been about you or suni or any one, but it is about my God given brain that I have to use in order to reach the Truth.You are forgetting that there was no month Rajab and no month called Ramadhan, etc. and no present order of the months prior to Umar or whoever made up the calendar. All these were invented sometime after the death of the prophet (who we don't know when he died). So everything that you are saying is just conjecture based on more conjecture.
Peace,
Ayman
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How would you know the authenticity of the DVD i.e. how do you know that it hasen't been tampered with. This is also true of the classical dictionary. DVD = word of mouth. You are facing the same dilema. You need to think slowly and logically. All matter comes down to the innermost thought.
Not at all. I am disregarding Ayman's twisted words and the definition of arabic dictionary. Thats all.
confused My dilema in your case is that , "On one side you have the intellect to question the authenticity of the footage recorded on a disk, but then you blindly follow the scholar's passed on practices in the name of Islam , in gross violation of Quran ???
'( I just cant understand above. hypno Will you help me out here , as to how you accomplish this?
wow So you are zipping through this life with the help of innermost thoughts tempt only, and Quran has nothing to do with guidance in your case hmm
siki
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You are forgetting that there was no month Rajab and no month called Ramadhan, etc. and no present order of the months prior to Umar or whoever made up the calendar. All these were invented sometime after the death of the prophet (who we don't know when he died). So everything that you are saying is just conjecture based on more conjecture.
Peace,
Ayman
Ayman, are you fooling us or yourself...Where did I assume that prior to 638 AD the Prophet used the Lunar Calender? In order to be fair when evaluating your hypotheses, I ignored this fact, which I believe is true.
as you said, fighting is ALWAYS allowed in self-defense (even during the restriction period) and is NEVER allowed in agression.
Again, your argument violates the ultimate truth of 95. And as I said before, the wars that were ordered by God are not aggressions but to help other societies whom lived under oppression.
How do you know it was during the summer? , there was a heat wave and famine during the whole year of the (btw never to happen)
Battle of Tabuq...If it was not the Summer season, how would they have predicted that there will be a heat wave in the future? Even today, no one can predict the weather for the coming two months (which is about the time for preparing and traveling to the land in which the battle will take place) with all the technology we have.
It seems that you are giving up in being logic, and instead, you want to live in the state of mind when you were Imam.Ayman and Nabster, you are running away from using your God Given Brain, and soon you will loose it. Unless you build your argument on a solid assumptions as I did, you are making fool of yourselves.
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Salam co-believers, my post here is just an advice, and it goes more to the proponents of Ramadhan=HOT month. Pls we should stop calling each other names simply because someone refuses to believe in what u feel is right or better, we know how people react to ideas they don't like or can't comprehend. Pls the proponents of this topic should be aware that they are like messengers who are trying to deliver the people from error and ignorance and so have to do that with wisdom. For it is far better to see someone in paradise because u were able to convey a message to his heart than seeing him in hell because you show him the truth and he refused to believe. And lastly the forgone sectarian scholars are gone and unaware of us and we are not liable to what they did, so why insulting them as morons and nonsense scholars? All these insult will not revart the corruption upon the religion. And moreover we are advice in the great reading not to insult the idols worshiped by the idolaters.
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Pls we should stop calling each other names simply because someone refuses to believe in what u feel is right or better
Thank you for the valuable reminder of our Lord. May God forgive us for our mistakes.
Pls the proponents of this topic should be aware that they are like messengers who are trying to deliver the people from error and ignorance and so have to do that with wisdom.
Do you agree that discounting 1 moon cycle every 3 years is wisdom?
Do you agree that period of the moon cycle is 10 days sometimes and 29 in other times is wisdom?
Do you agree that The blind Man is not obligated to fast?
Do you agree that there are two Share Ramadan, one for the Northern and the other for the Southern Hampshire is wisdom?These are some of the wisdom of the Proponents of this topic.
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Peace belH
and thanx for the nihilistic antipreach pieces.
I personally do not adhere to all the points that you mentioned, but that is besides the point.
Regarding knowledge, Imam Shafie did a great disservice to the Umma by putting a straight-jacket on
the future interpreters of Quran, and that created massive damage to the community creating all the divisions and
problems that all the generations have gone through, but as justice said, his retribution is with Allah.
The question is how to move from the straight-jacket, because the sectarians are not wont to let go of any of it, they
love their misery, it is what they call in psychology "learned / acquired helplessness".
This debate for me is really a luxury, so long as important issues are not tackled.
What is more valuable to you, sanctity of life and honor or splitting hair regarding calendars, prayer times, and ceremonies?
Firstly, Monotheism needs to enter the heart, love of God needs to be absolute, then Truth will become manifest, and so answers will
start coming.
There are no worthy foundation anywhere for true Monotheism to emerge, so what you get is, well fitna, or worse, wrath of Allah...
I ask you sincerely, before you post here, do you ask for The God's guidance?
How is the presence of Allah in your life?
This is more important than everything else, this is how one starts, if your vessel (i.e, metaphorically your heart) is dirty, Allah will not touch it...Thank you for the valuable reminder of our Lord. May God forgive us for our mistakes.
Do you agree that discounting 1 moon cycle every 3 years is wisdom?
Do you agree that period of the moon cycle is 10 days sometimes and 29 in other times is wisdom?
Do you agree that The blind Man is not obligated to fast?
Do you agree that there are two Share Ramadan, one for the Northern and the other for the Southern Hampshire is wisdom?These are some of the wisdom of the Proponents of this topic.
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Peace,
You are forgetting that there was no month Rajab and no month called Ramadhan, etc. and no present order of the months prior to Umar or whoever made up the calendar. All these were invented sometime after the death of the prophet (who we don't know when he died). So everything that you are saying is just conjecture based on more conjecture.
Ayman, this is the infinite time I am telling you that your logic is faulty, faulty, faulty,???? and flawed, flawed, flawed,????????
You are forgetting that the oldest Quran we have dates back to year 651. This is an incomplete Quran because it is missing many chapters. Now, if we apply your faulty logic to this situation, the result is no Quran prior to year 651. Therefore, the Quran did not exist prior to year 651 and that the Quran we have today was fabricated by Uthman and other people whom you label as disbelievers. Thus, according to Ayman?s logic, Quran is just conjecture based on more conjecture.
Ayman, do you see how disgraceful your logic is? You should cover up you face completely when you go on the street.
Please stop your nonsense.
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Peace,
... the Quran we have today was fabricated by Uthman and other people whom you label as disbelievers. ...
Uthman would have saved us a lot of angst if he left a trail (proof of concept) as to how he put the Quran together. I for one believe that the Quran was already put together by the Prophet in a finalised book form after the final revelation and well enough before his death.
Uthman might have gotten involved in binding that copy, or helping in the proof reading and checking for nasty additions, with reliable scribes, so as to make it checked and double checked by readers and finally fully approved as authentic.
But this does not explain the two versions Warsh and Hafs by the way...I do not wish to comment about the other bit you accuse Ayman of, as for me, Uthman was indeed a companion of the Prophet as were Abu Bakr, Umar, Ali, Hamza and Zayd, as to where they come from, I believe from north western arabic peninsula (i.e close to Jerusalem, or even Petra), and for the timeline, it is all messed up, thanks to Mr Imam Shafie fitna, tempting people to produce hadith factories and links to the Prophet ...
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Peace Belal,
Ayman, are you fooling us or yourself...Where did I assume that prior to 638 AD the Prophet used the Lunar Calender? In order to be fair when evaluating your hypotheses, I ignored this fact, which I believe is true.
You assumed it but you are too much of a fool to understand your own silent assumptions. Again, the Umar calendar is made up and the months' names are meaningless and their order is arbitrary. So he or whoever could have called the period where "ramadhan" occured, Rajab, Safar, Dhu-Al-BelH ) or whatever. It doesn't matter they are just meaningless labels that have nothing to do with reality. Also, we don't know when the calendar was established 638CE, 640CE, 630CE, etc. All we know is that it certainly wasn't there in pre-Islamic times and when the messenger was there and the great reading was being revealed. Thus the great reading is completely oblivious to the so-called Islamic calendar.
Again, your argument violates the ultimate truth of 95. And as I said before, the wars that were ordered by God are not aggressions but to help other societies whom lived under oppression.
No you are just making baseless conjecture. How do you know how many months or YEARS passed between 95 and 981? You DON'T. You are just making up baseless conjectures as you go.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace,
All we know is that it certainly wasn't there in pre-Islamic times and when the messenger was there and the great reading was being revealed.
With this statement ?certainly wasn't there?, Ayman is raising himself to the status of God. Only the God is in a position to say such thing since He is all knowing. Ayman, you didn?t even witness the event, how can you be certain about it. You want to be God, right. That?s why you are trying to give us new Ramadan. Your attempt is futile.
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Peace Guest,
With this statement ?certainly wasn't there?, Ayman is raising himself to the status of God. Only the God is in a position to say such thing since He is all knowing. Ayman, you didn?t even witness the event, how can you be certain about it. You want to be God, right. That?s why you are trying to give us new Ramadan. Your attempt is futile.
It is a certainty unless you can quote passages that say the following things, which your false manmade timing is based on
- O believers, take the date of the Hijra to start the calendar.
- O believers, sorry but forget about point #1 above and don't take the actual supposed date of the Hijra to start the calendar but instead start the calendar from 3 months prior to the Hijra.
- O believers, the order of the months is Muharram, Safar, Rabi' al-awwal, Rabi' al-thani, Jumada al-awwal, Jumada al-thani, Rajab, Sha'aban, Ramadan, Shawwal, Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah.
- O believers ignore 95 because the restricted "months" are not consecutive but are the arbitrary Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah, Muharram, and Rajab.
- O believers ignore 2189 and perform your Hajj from the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah.
- O believers ignore 1712 and don?t use day and night to determine the number of years and instead use the moon alone, which is not mentioned at all in 1712.
- O believers ignore the meaning of the word ?ramadhan? and take it as meaningless nonsense.
- O believers ignore 936 and instead count ?months? forever and don?t stop at 12, thereby making every month in your calendar dependent on when month 1 started. However, trick people into thinking that you are counting 12 by recycling the anyway meaningless names of the months every 12 names.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Guest,
It is a certainty unless you can quote passages that say the following things, which your false manmade timing is based on
- O believers, take the date of the Hijra to start the calendar.
- O believers, sorry but forget about point #1 above and don't take the actual supposed date of the Hijra to start the calendar but instead start the calendar from 3 months prior to the Hijra.
- O believers, the order of the months is Muharram, Safar, Rabi' al-awwal, Rabi' al-thani, Jumada al-awwal, Jumada al-thani, Rajab, Sha'aban, Ramadan, Shawwal, Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah.
- O believers ignore 95 because the restricted "months" are not consecutive but are the arbitrary Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah, Muharram, and Rajab.
- O believers ignore 2189 and perform your Hajj from the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah.
- O believers ignore 1712 and don?t use day and night to determine the number of years and instead use the moon alone, which is not mentioned at all in 1712.
- O believers ignore the meaning of the word ?ramadhan? and take it as meaningless nonsense.
- O believers ignore 936 and instead count ?months? forever and don?t stop at 12, thereby making every month in your calendar dependent on when month 1 started. However, trick people into thinking that you are counting 12 by recycling the anyway meaningless names of the months every 12 names.
Peace,
Ayman
You forgot chapter number.
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Peace all,
That is what My Lord have created for the believers as a Month Clock...If this is not good enough for you, ask Ayman if his created Clock is better than this.
http//theabysmal.fenris.ca/theAbyss/Revolute/Lunar/Lunation.png
Ask yourself, what is God's Wisdom behind the above Cycle, is for you to ignore or to accurately calculate His Twelve Months.
I will be back soon.
Peace