Intentional vs Non-intentional Shirk
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I think it's both... Polytheists usually don't think they're doing the wrong thing by worshipping many gods, but Allah still condemns them. Most orthodox Christians don't see anything wrong with worshipping Jesus, but this doesn't mean they're not wrong; according to the Qur'aan, they will still face judgement...
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Who agrees with me that it is the heart idol-worshipping and not the action that is condemned by the god?
Peace,
Respectfully.I'm wondering about the same thing these days. I would say that if one makes intention to perform idol-worship and really put someone or something next to God - that person has only one destiny - The Abyss of HellFire.
God knows best,
God bless you.
Peace. -
Peace,
Respectfully.I'm wondering about the same thing these days. I would say that if one makes intention to perform idol-worship and really put someone or something next to God - that person has only one destiny - The Abyss of HellFire.
God knows best,
God bless you.
Peace.A very good question. Like Alen, I have been wondering that myself.
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I would say that if one makes intention to perform idol-worship and really put someone or something next to God - that person has only one destiny - The Abyss of HellFire.
The problem with this conclusion, though, is that NOBODY intentionally performs idol worship, at least not to the explicit degree. They all believe they're doing the right thing. Even devoted polytheists who worship the sun, moon, stars, elements, and articles of nature, people whom the Qur'aan clearly rejects and condemns, actually believe they're doing the right form of service, and they actually believe these things can help them.
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The problem with this conclusion, though, is that NOBODY intentionally performs idol worship, at least not to the explicit degree. They all believe they're doing the right thing. Even devoted polytheists who worship the sun, moon, stars, elements, and articles of nature, people whom the Qur'aan clearly rejects and condemns, actually believe they're doing the right form of service, and they actually believe these things can help them.
Yes I agree with you, but I wonder if they will be "condemned" or if God will forgive their genuine mistake.
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I think it's both... Polytheists usually don't think they're doing the wrong thing by worshipping many gods, but Allah still condemns them. Most orthodox Christians don't see anything wrong with worshipping Jesus, but this doesn't mean they're not wrong; according to the Qur'aan, they will still face judgement...
yes thats true. I agree with you.
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Yes I agree with you, but I wonder if they will be "condemned" or if God will forgive their genuine mistake.
This is a good question, but I don't think we'll ever really know the answer until we see the hereafter with it's rewards and punishments. Allah knows best... According to the Qur'aan, Allah doesn't forgive shirk (the setting up of partners beside Him), even though He forgives "lesser" crimes. We do know that He is the most just and the Greatest in wisdom, so He knows everyone's intentions; He's also merciful, and He forgives and shows mercy without limits. So, in my opinion, it's most likely referring to the people who heard the message and the warning from the prophets, but they continued to reject them; those who haven't heard the message won't be held accountable. But I don't know for sure, since the Qur'aan does say that a messenger has come to every nation and people, and everyone should have a knowledge of Allah's message; and therefore, everyone will be held accountable for their rejection... Like I said, Allah knows best...
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This is a good question, but I don't think we'll ever really know the answer until we see the hereafter with it's rewards and punishments. Allah knows best... According to the Qur'aan, Allah doesn't forgive shirk (the setting up of partners beside Him), even though He forgives "lesser" crimes. We do know that He is the most just and the Greatest in wisdom, so He knows everyone's intentions; He's also merciful, and He forgives and shows mercy without limits. So, in my opinion, it's most likely referring to the people who heard the message and the warning from the prophets, but they continued to reject them; those who haven't heard the message won't be held accountable. But I don't know for sure, since the Qur'aan does say that a messenger has come to every nation and people, and everyone should have a knowledge of Allah's message; and therefore, everyone will be held accountable for their rejection... Like I said, Allah knows best...
I agree. It's impossible for us, as human beings who can't discern the true intentions or beliefs of other people, and have a limited understanding of other people's religious/spiritual background or exposure, to figure out what is shirk. It seems more reasonable to think that God will judge an act of shirk in context, based on whether that person has been exposed to the truth/ God's message, and/ or has spent time thinking about the universe and a possible divine origin.
Like I always say, just leave the judging to the just Judge (God). peace
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Like I always say, just leave the judging to the just Judge (God). peace
Absolutely! handshake peace
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Like I always say, just leave the judging to the just Judge (God). peace
Yes thats what We'll do. handshake peace
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Quranically speaking, leaving it to God only to judge is untenable. Allah never said he is the only judge (2188 mentions not bribing the hukkam/judges) and we are told to judge by the book in truth (54, even so far as to 'call out' to kafireen (1091-6) and announce a total separation of deen. There are occasions where we must judge but we should let Quran define those occasions (like 109/1-6). While Quran tells us to say to people 'say not three', it never tells us to say 'o kafireen, say not three'. These subtle differences are vital.
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Quranically speaking, leaving it to God only to judge is untenable. Allah never said he is the only judge (2188 mentions not bribing the hukkam/judges) and we are told to judge by the book in truth (54, even so far as to 'call out' to kafireen (1091-6) and announce a total separation of deen. There are occasions where we must judge but we should let Quran define those occasions (like 109/1-6). While Quran tells us to say to people 'say not three', it never tells us to say 'o kafireen, say not three'. These subtle differences are vital.
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be careful
remember 37, and here, we are only referring to shirk, not other kinds of sins. -
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be careful
remember 37, and here, we are only referring to shirk, not other kinds of sins.Agreed that care must come into it. Shirk is not an 'internal experience' only, if you're implying that is. Shirk is also not disconnected from other 'sins'. Shirk is the source of other sins. If one didn't have shirk, one would be like Ibrahim who is 'mukhliseen lahu ad-deen' (i.e, totally without shirk). We need to identify the mushrikeen for the sake of situations such as in 9/1 which contains the phrase 'min al-mushrikeen' and requires the reader to identify who these people are. Of course, in no way am I agreeing with traditional concept of shirk and mushrik either.