Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.
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Peace all,
Here are the Lies that free-minds.org are Promoting in the name of IslamAnyone opens http//free-minds.org/, he or she can read the following lies in section
"WHAT IS DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ISLAM AND TODAY'S PRACTICES?"
First Lie
In Islam, Thieves do not have their hands cut-off, but are made to work until they return that which is stolen (1276), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which brutally amputate the hands causing disability...It Violates the well-established Law of verse 5-38
Second Lie
In Islam, Pilgrimage is a centre for gathering of nations and for all to witness the benefits of being together (2227-2, Vs. Sunni and Shia bringing in polytheistic rituals and superstition (touching of black stone, circling 7 times, etc..)...
It violates the well-established order of Quran, Torah and Bible to make Pilgrimage to Jerusalem
Third Lie
In Islam, a Year is a luni-solar count made of 365-days (1712, 936), with all the seasons fitting-in-place Vs. Sunnis teaching it to be a lunar one based on 354 days which creates confusion of seasons and time?
It violates the well-established order of Quran, Torah, and Bible to use the Sun cycle to Calculate the Day, Moon Cycle to calculate the Month period (the number of days per month), and 12 Moon Cycle period to calculate one years.
To me, this seems like another sect that has its own laws that are not 100% from Quran; thus, they are promoting what is not 100% Pure Islam.
Peace
Peace
Oh ! I thought free minds do not believe in sectarianism.Regards
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I don't accept that free-minds is another sect as it contains members from all the religions, denominations and sects
Peace,
Sure, everyone is welcome to chat, but you are not following the True Islam unless you believe in their defination of Islam, which is posted in their Welcome Page.
Thus, you are not one of their sect...You and I are a guests
Peace -
Peace,
Sure, everyone is welcome to chat, but you are not following the True Islam unless you believe in their defination of Islam, which is posted in their Welcome Page.
Thus, you are not one of their sect...You are a guest.
PeaceWhat's their definition of Islam?
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peace belH,
Firstly, they are "lies" according to you. Many people all over the world will say XYZ is incorrect, but very few of those actually provide evidence. Are you of this type of people? I have almost nothing to do with the main site of free-minds.org but I know anyone can write an article for it, as long as it is Quran based. Why not write one, bringing the most solid and clear evidence you can for all to see?
Re first "lie"
See http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/cut-off-hands-theft.htmRe second "lie"
I would prefer to term it "hajj" rather than pilgrimage, which has pretty much been refuted in the forum discussions.Re third "lie"
It seems you are confused about the term luni-solar. The term means to use both sun and moon.Having said that though, free-minds.org could loosely be termed a "sect", as in a technicality kind of way. Since it does not advocate same views other than the basics, e.g. monotheism, then it doesn't quite fit into what is commonly thought of as a sect.
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peace belH,
Firstly, they are "lies" according to you. Many people all over the world will say XYZ is incorrect, but very few of those actually provide evidence. Are you of this type of people? I have almost nothing to do with the main site of free-minds.org but I know anyone can write an article for it, as long as it is Quran based. Why not write one, bringing the most solid and clear evidence you can for all to see?
Re first "lie"
See http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/cut-off-hands-theft.htmRe second "lie"
I would prefer to term it "hajj" rather than pilgrimage, which has pretty much been refuted in the forum discussions.Re third "lie"
It seems you are confused about the term luni-solar. The term means to use both sun and moon.Having said that though, free-minds.org could loosely be termed a "sect", as in a technicality kind of way. Since it does not advocate same views other than the basics, e.g. monotheism, then it doesn't quite fit into what is commonly thought of as a sect.
Peace Wakas,
First, I'm not Good in writing articles, specially, when it relates to God's Religion...As I know, from Quran, God's Religion is in His OWN Book and not in any ones' article.
Anyway, unless Free.Mind.org stop advocating (by making a definition of Islam in their welcome page) few of their members' understanding and ignoring others, then, they are a sect and not FREE MINDS.
Thank you for your honest opinion.
May God Bless
Peace -
Peaec all
I think I owe you more clarificationsRe first "lie"
See http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/cut-off-hands-theft.htmMy article to refute Free-Minds understanding is this Verse
The male thief, and the female thief, you shall cut-off their hands as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as a deterrent from God. God is Noble, Wise. Whoever repents after his wrongdoing and makes amends, then God will relent on him. Truly, God is Forgiving, Merciful.
Re second "lie"
I would prefer to term it "hajj" rather than pilgrimage, which has pretty much been refuted in the forum discussions.It is indisputable that all True Believers have to visit the Retricted House in which Makam (Grave) Abraham exists.
Re third "lie"
It seems you are confused about the term luni-solar. The term means to use both sun and moon.Please read and let me know if I'm confused http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0
(I posted more than 600 reply in the link above arguing about this point)Peace
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But articles are just explanations from one's viewpoint, not thoughts and ideas set in stone and unchangable like how you cannot change delete phrases and words in the quran, if an ill intentioned person wishes to alter the quran, he or she won't be able to delete or add words to it, but he or she will try to get different meanings off the words and manipulate them
I think taking your time to write an article would be good, it's just like a forum post, except that you adress yourself to many people instead of just one person
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But articles are just explanations from one's viewpoint, not thoughts and ideas set in stone and unchangable like how you cannot change delete phrases and words in the quran, if an ill intentioned person wishes to alter the quran, he or she won't be able to delete or add words to it, but he or she will try to get different meanings off the words and manipulate them
I think taking your time to write an article would be good, it's just like a forum post, except that you adress yourself to many people instead of just one person
Peace,
In My day to day profession, I write so much in arguing about issues related Man made Laws.
But when it comes to God's Laws, I tend to be afraid to use my own writings to argue, rather, I prefer to use the Well-Established Verses. Now, if I write an article about God's Laws, would I be using my words, or would I be pasting from Quran?I Have challenged many in this form about their twisted understanding of Quran (e.g., Ramadan issue, Adam and Eve were not the first humans, there is no Hajj, Jesus had a Father) by using straight forward Quranic verses that does not need any more writings in order to make more clearer.
Finally, All the prophets were instructed to argue by using the Message (e.g., Quran), without adding or deleting...then, do you think this instruction is for all of us as well?
Peace -
BelH,
I did not need even to read a word from your accusation since its subject's title is dead wrong. Either you have no clue about what sect or cult means or you are "projecting," your problem here. A sect and cult depends on members who accept the dogmas of a leader or a troop of leaders (imams, sheiks, mullahs, cardinals, pastors, pope, etc.) without questioning their teachings. In sects (in-sects yay), cults and religions there is hierarchy. Majority in those religious wagons follow the idolized minority hoping of attaining salvation.
Free-minds is a forum for free-thinkers, not for dogmatics. Free-minds is an agora for critical thinkers, not for band-wagoners. Free-minds is a public square for those who wish to learn from each other, not for those who wish to follow others blindly. Of course, by the very nature of openness, it attracts sectarian fanatics, dogmatics, and all sorts of people, including you. In sect's and cult's forums, usually you cannot post criticism, let alone fabricated insults (like this of yours). Here, we can rarely agree an any issue, which is a piece of cake on almost every issue for any sect and cult. Does free-minds is the last place that can be described as a center of a particular sect, cult or religion.
So, before slinging your mud to the walls of this place and pissing at its corner, go look at the mirror and wipe the dirt on your face. Sorry for forgetting to tell you welcome
Peace,
Edip -
BelH,
I did not need even read a word from your accusation since the title which is the gist of it is dead wrong. Either you have no clue about what sect or cult mean or you are "projecting." A sect and cult depends on members who accept the dogmas of the leader (imam, sheik, mullah, pope, pastor, etc.) without questioning. In sects, cults and religions there is hierarchy. Majority follow the idolized minority hoping of attaining salvation.
Free-minds is a forum for free-thinkers, not for dogmatics. Free-minds is an agora for critical thinkers, not for band-wagoners. Free-minds is a public square for those who wish to learn from each other. Of course, by the very nature of openness, it attracts sectarian fanatics, dogmatics, and all kinds of people. Here, we can rarely agree an any issue, which is a piece of cake for almost every issue for any sect and cult.
So, before slinging your mud to the walls of this place and pissing at its corner, go look at the mirror and wipe the dirt on your face. Sorry for forgetting to tell you welcome
Peace,
Ediprotfl Typical Sect Leader attitude...No comments for now.
To all, what 19ers sect leader, Edip, failed to understand is, Shia and Suna Sects do not make you one of them unless you agree to all of their believes...the same with Free-Minds, you are not a true Moslem unless you believe in all of their understanding...Will, that is enough for me to consider free-minds.org a sect.
I hope when you disagree, do not use language as the 9 years old, Edip, used.
Peace to all -
Peace,
In My day to day profession, I write so much in arguing about issues related Man made Laws.
But when it comes to God's Laws, I tend to be afraid to use my own writings to argue, rather, I prefer to use the Well-Established Verses. Now, if I write an article about God's Laws, would I be using my words, or would I be pasting from Quran?I Have challenged many in this form about their twisted understanding of Quran (e.g., Ramadan issue, Adam and Eve were not the first humans, there is no Hajj, Jesus had a Father) by using straight forward Quranic verses that does not need any more writings in order to make more clearer.
Finally, All the prophets were instructed to argue by using the Message (e.g., Quran), without adding or deleting...then, do you think this instruction is for all of us as well?
Peacegood thing about the religious scriptures is that they are open to interpretations, you only can understand according to your knowledge/ level of understanding. but the kind of attitude, such as yours, is not productive at all. Peace.
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good thing about the religious scriptures is that they are open to interpretations, you only can understand according to your knowledge/ level of understanding. but the kind of attitude, such as yours, is not productive at all. Peace.
Can you be more constructive about your argument (the red colored words above).
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peace,
My article to refute Free-Minds understanding is this Verse
The male thief, and the female thief, you shall cut-off their hands as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as a deterrent from God. God is Noble, Wise. Whoever repents after his wrongdoing and makes amends, then God will relent on him. Truly, God is Forgiving, Merciful.
That verse is discussed in the article I linked to, in detail I might add.
It is indisputable that all True Believers have to visit the Retricted House in which Makam (Grave) Abraham exists.
I would like to see this "indisputable" evidence you allude to. It seems you know little about the word "maqam".
Please read and let me know if I'm confused http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0
(I posted more than 600 reply in the link above arguing about this point)The homepage of free-minds is stating that instead of luni, it is luni-solar, then you go on to say we should use the sun and the moon, which is exactly what luni-solar means, so with regard to this specific point and NOTHING else, yes you are confused. Perhaps you mean your exact timing system is the correct one and since the free-minds homepage does not explicitly state your method, it is wrong. However, both the free-minds and your one is luni-solar.
And lastly, it is statements like these that give your comments almost no credibility
the same with Free-Minds, you are not a true Moslem unless you believe in all of their understanding
Where does it say that? A little tip, if you do write an article, it is usually good to cite evidence along with a statement.
Did you happen to see the disclaimer on the articles page?
THE ARTICLES DO NOT REPRESENT THE VIEWS OF ALL FREE-MINDS MEMBERS. HOWEVER, THEY ARE POSTED FOR THEIR THOUGHT-PROVOKING CONTENT
And lastly, the homepage of free-minds is not 100% accurate in my view, but the gist of it is in the right place.
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rotfl Typical Sect Leader attitude...No comments for now.
To all, what 19ers sect leader, Edip, failed to understand is, Shia and Suna Sects do not make you one of them unless you agree to all of their believes...the same with Free-Minds, you are not a true Moslem unless you believe in all of their understanding...Will, that is enough for me to consider free-minds.org a sect.
I hope when you disagree, do not use language as the 9 years old, Edip, used.
Peace to allPeace Brother
What to talk about 19ers and Khalifites .These are blind followers of the LIAR OF THE CENTURY.
The strangled minded persons who lack all rationality.
So do not worry much about this group brother.
Regards -
Peace Brother
What to talk about 19ers and Khalifites .These are blind followers of the LIAR OF THE CENTURY.
The strangled minded persons who lack all rationality.
So do not worry much about this group brother.
RegardsPeace,
What drove Edip crazy is when I made my comment about "Writing an Article" and how God instructed the Prophets and Believers to deliver only the words of His Message (e.g., Quran) and not their own words. As you know, Edip wrote more than 1000 religious' articles in which He rarely used the Quran words, but his Man Made words...and the result, he has many followers whom agree to his man made argument of deleting 9-128 & 129.May God help us in our arguments against the twisted minded freaks whom dispute and argue about the well-established Words of Our Lord.
And may God show us our mistakes and make us brave enough to admit to and fix them.
Peace -
Free-minds is a forum for free-thinkers, not for dogmatics. Free-minds is an agora for critical thinkers, not for band-wagoners. Free-minds is a public square for those who wish to learn from each other, not for those who wish to follow others blindly.
So, before slinging your mud to the walls of this place and pissing at its corner, go look at the mirror and wipe the dirt on your face. Sorry for forgetting to tell you welcomePeace,
EdipPeace all,
Edip, above you are defending free-minds.org and attacking me for my accusationBelow, you are agreeing with my accusation and attacking Free-minds.org.
Free of Minds of Free-minds organization and
The reverse of Occam's Razor? Edip Yuksel
For centuries Muslims were deprived to use their own minds to read and understand the Quran. Muslim scholars fabricated and compiled volumes of narratives, sectarian jurisprudence and complicated procedural rules and introduced them to Muslim masses as requirement to learn their religion. Generations gave lip service to the Quran, hanged it to the best corner of their rooms, carried verses from it as amulets, read it for their dead, touched it and kissed it with reverence; nevertheless they rarely referred to it for religious guidance. Many did not read it; most of those who read it, did not understand it; and most who understood it did not really believe in it and thus did not follow it.
Muslims were told, contrary what the Quran, that the Quran was difficult to understand, ambiguous, incomplete, and in need of Hadith and fatwas of scholars. Following their scholars blindly, muslim masses turned their religion to a limited partnership or corporation; a corporation where the main shareholders were God plus Muhammad plus Muhammad's companions plus Muhammad's companion's companions plus early imams of a particular sect plus later jurists plus early great alims plus later great alims plus other great alims plus other petty alims and petty gurus of Sufi orders.
This religion condemned the Muslim masses to live in a warped universe of medieval ages. A mosaic of sanctified medieval Arab culture, borrowings from Jewish and Christian mythologies, superstitions and the mindset of the Era of Ignorance doomed them to oppressive, inefficient, misogynist, irrational, and backward life.
However, recently Muslims are looking a way out and they are turning to their long-deserted holy book, the Quran. All around the world, a powerful and promising progressive movement promoting Islamic reform under the light of the Quran is flourishing. Nevertheless, there are examples of deviation and fatal mutation within some branches of this movement. Freed from the leash of traditional dogmatism, some young people celebrate this newly found freedom with excess. Intoxicated with the egalitarian principles of this movement and equipped with Molotov cocktail of arrogance and ignorance, they are recklessly hurling speculations, absurd claims, and pure nonsense about the Quran. They attempt to hijack this powerful message.
One example of this intoxicated Quran Aloners can be found at the Turkish-English website www.yeniyorumlar.org. I have written some amusing articles about the claims of the leader of this group and they are available in Turkish at 19.org.
Other examples of these intoxicated Quran Aloners can be found at free-minds.org.
In an article titled Conspiracies against Conspiracies Words in the Wonderland, I criticized a portion of a book written by a free of mind Quran Aloner. The following depiction is a fair and general depiction of these people
In Aidid?s Wonderland, place of worships (masaajid) vanishes to submissions (yes, plural!); timely prayers transform to timely commitments; the Sacred House Ka?ba mutates into ?the ?ankles? the sanctioned in the system? (the ankles are literally the ankles of deer and goats!); verbs and adverbs are ignored whenever they do not conspire with Aidid against Arab Conspiracies; nouns and verbs act like transsexuals in a ?fundamental? way where the meanings are freshly assigned by Aidid to justify his bizarre theories.
This is another abuse and exploitation of the Quran Alone message. Aidid is not the first nor will be the last brave warrior who will use the powerful message of the Quran Alone against tradition to justify esoteric and absurd claims. In an overpopulated world any conspiracy theory and any absurd idea will find some followers. We should let the Arab conspirators and non-Arab counter-conspirators deal with each other. As long as there are wind mills there will be Don Quixotes and their admirers. Peace for all of them! Thank God, I do not own any wind mills;-)
SOME members of free-minds.org are really free. They are free,
Free from knowledge.
Free from grammatical rules of the language they are speculating on.
Free from semantics.
Free from rules of logic.
Free from common sense.
Free from the truth.
Free from ability to discuss any issue based on facts.
Free from fear of God.
Free from minds.The Bible says, "Accept the truth so that the truth will set you free." These free of minds live in a fictional world where one of the rules is "Religion is your wishful thinking and your wishful thinking is your religion. Everyday you should make up your religion as you wish. Brothers and sisters, let's fabricate and applaud the weirdest of all claims." Sadly, in this game the ONLY material they are using is the text of the QURAN. In their cultic slang, QURAN ALONE means the only thing they will focus on twisting beyond recognition is the Quran alone. They turn the words of the Quran to clay; they twist, squeeze, stretch and contextually disorient them and they come up with anything they wish. They are more talented than the clowns who make sculptures out of balloons. A bad analogy clowns do it for fun; but these free people are very serious about what they are saying.
In philosophy of science, there is beautiful but a handle-with-care principle called Occam's Razor. If you have more than one explanation for the same event, the accurate one is most likely the simplest one. For instance, if you cannot find your socks they are most likely lost somewhere in your room, rather than being socknapped by UFO's. Interestingly, the free-minders have chosen the reverse of the Occam's Razor they subscribe to the philosophy of "If you have more than one explanation for the same event, word, or statement, the accurate one is most likely the most absurd one!" Here is just one of many examples
Exactly! Isn't a "MU"slim one who submits? Isn't a "MU"salleen one who maintains salaat? Why isn't "MU"hammed one who praises/appreciates? We have to start being people who PROVE things. There is no proof of a man named Muhammad, but we can take this CHARACTER TYPE along with all the other CHARACTER TYPES and live by those moral lessons.Muhammad is the descriptive adjective of an "ON-GOING" messenger of GOD that can ONLY be witnessed by the GENUINE GUIDED BELIEVERS of the BOOK...Muhammad is to be obeyed AFTER being "WITNESSED".
I should, however, give credit when credit is due. Even a frozen non military clock will show time correctly twice a day, similarly, among all the fabrication and absurd claims, they do occasionally come up with sensible thesis. One needs a powerful light and plenty of patience to extract them, since they are lost in the minus 273 Celsius degrees of darkness and on the zenith of their Everestic arrogance.confused Why this flip flopping? Did any one tell you "So, before slinging your mud to the walls of this place and pissing at its corner, go look at the mirror and wipe the dirt on your face." after posting the above?
Is this a sign of hypocrisy?
Or, When humans write too much, they tend to forget about what they wrote before, and then,...they argue against their own argument?
My advice to you, please cut down in your writings or you will keep Mocking yourself.Peace
