Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.
-
Obviously you didn't read my other responses on this matter... ) The people make themselves sectarians because they establish limitations on the embracement of Islaam. Therefore, if someone disagrees with their view, they call this person a "kafir" (disbeliever). To refer to others who claim to be Muslims as "kafir" is completely wrong, and it's sectarian in nature.
Embracing islam? I want to see a single article on free-minds on ?how to embrace islam?. The embracing islam dance is one asked for by sunnis. You need to adopt the entire sunni culture to be one of them.
FYI, not being ?muslim? doesn?t equate to being kafir. You?re bringing in traditional islam?s mentality into it.
Are you sure about this?! I certainly doubt it, to a high degree. In fact, as I mentioned, there are even others who consider themselves Muslims on here, who seek to remain peaceable with everyone and ask questions and learn about their individual fold of Islaam. Yet, the members of this forum won't hesitate to call them blasphemers, idolators, liars, idiots, disbelievers, rejectors, and every other foul name... So, if this is the case for those who consider themselves Muslims, then how much WORSE would it be for someone declaring himself to be a Satanist or atheist? That's pure hypocrisy...
So behaviour of recalcitrant members equate to FM?s nature? Wow, I seriously wonder at your reasoning skills, sir.
As I mentioned before, you can't group "Sunnis" into one huge fold of Islaam. There are many sects of Sunni Islaam, and they don't all agree. There are several Sunni groups that allow their members to pray in their own languages, and this happens all over the world. The only ones who declare the prayers to be "null and void" if not performed in Arabic are the Salafis, Qutbis, and Hanafis; most of the others are not opposed to a Muslim praying in English, French, Spanish, Russian, German, or whatever other language they speak...
I?m quoting sunni schools of law who yes, represent the entire Sunni sharia compendium. Now kindly quote your sources. Mine is ?Sharia Islamic Law? by Abdul Rahman I. Doi.
And this wouldn't be the case if you attended a "Free-Minds mosque"?!? You would have a nearly identical experience, minus the ritualistic practices. If someone did get down to perform a salaat prostration, he would probably be thrown out violently, since the majority of the Free-Minds say that there are no rituals involved in the practice of Islaam; they say the salaat described in the Qur'aan is only metaphorical, not literal...
Haha, I doubt that. I think if FM had a masjid and I attended, I would sleep through any ritual prayer being held and still be ok. I dunno, better ask Layth P
-
This is absurd, to say the least! Just because someone believes in ONE God does not mean they've discriminated against polytheists. I realize, from being a Muslim, that judgement is for Allah alone. Although I speak against some of their polytheistic ways (which are contrary to reason and logic), it doesn't mean I reject them as individuals, and I'd never stoop to the point of calling them "stupid", "liars", "infidels", or anything like that. I don't discriminate against people who don't believe in Qur'aanic rituals because I believe that everyone is entitled to their own understanding of the religion; Allah guides whom He chooses. So, why would I judge them by calling them "stupid" for rejecting rituals?! Allah knows what He instructed, and in the hereafter, He'll let us know the truth regarding the things in which we've been disputing...
Good i'm glad you noticed its absurdity because i'm adopting your line of reasoning here. FM people made their choices. SOME of them may call others such names but its against the rules.
That's NOT what matters. The idea of Islaam involves both (1) total submission to Allah and (2) peace with humanity and nature. Therefore, by definition, those who are not peaceable with others are NOT Muslims... But do I feel it my duty to call them non-Muslims? No... The Qur'aan tells us not to split into sects, which means that our religion should be unified. And in this sense, we SHOULD be concerned about the actions of others claiming to be Muslims, not just ourselves and our own understanding of the scripture. Instead of allowing people to stay stuck in ignorance, you think I'm "wrong" for telling people that Allah is the best Judge and that we should uplift others instead of tear them down?
I really don?t get this obsession with takfeer. I?ve never seen takfeer much in this forum.
I think people make choices. This does NOT constitute sectarian behaviour. Some in FM may use the K word, that?s not sanctioned by the forum.
-
You should adopt a view because of your OWN research not anyone elses.
Because this is not a game of ?follow the priest blindly?, mate. Layth never said ?people who don?t follow me are going to hell?. It?s your responsibility to keep checking the book for yourself. Never be afraid to differ.
Peace,
I agree; but what made you think that I do not agree?Please understand that my intended objective of this topic is to alarm everyone of Free.minds.org new path; The path of judging between Good Understanding Vs Evil understanding of Quran. In doing so, Free-minds.org is not a Moderator of the different understandings of the Quran Aloners, rather, a Judge.
I'm not talking about all the different Articles that are posted in the Articles Section; please understand that I'm talking about the WELCOME Section that speaks about the nature of Free-Minds.org; and as I showed, The Welcome Page containes definitions of "the Good Understanding of Quran" that does not represents all of the Members...Thus, in nature, This is Sectarianism.Of course, we can all debate and call each others sectarians when disagreeing, but free-minds.org has no right to do so.
Peace
-
Embracing islam? I want to see a single article on free-minds on ?how to embrace islam?. The embracing islam dance is one asked for by sunnis. You need to adopt the entire sunni culture to be one of them.
FYI, not being ?muslim? doesn?t equate to being kafir. You?re bringing in traditional islam?s mentality into it.
This is false. According to the fundamentals of Sunni Islaam, all a person has to do to be considered a "muslim" is recite the "shahaada kaliyma". Once this is done, that person is considered a Muslim, regardless of the rituals they perform or adoption of Arabic culture... And yes, calling a Muslim a "kafir" is blatant, because all Muslims seek to be removed from the group of disbelievers, those who reject Allah.
So behaviour of recalcitrant members equate to FMs nature? Wow, I seriously wonder at your reasoning skills, sir.
These members are "recalcitrant"? I already said that this is the MAJORITY of members on here, not just a stubborn minority. When the majority of a group practice wickedness, it's feasible to say that the organization as a whole (minus certain individuals) practices wickedness. That's simple logic...
Im quoting sunni schools of law who yes, represent the entire Sunni sharia compendium. Now kindly quote your sources. Mine is Sharia Islamic Law by Abdul Rahman I. Doi.
Okay... First of all, when you speak of "prayer", are you talking about "salaat" or "du'aa"? Du'aa is prayer, while salaat only involves reading from the Qur'aan. Salaat should be done in Arabic, simply because the Qur'aan is in Arabic; the only required passage is "Al Faatiha", the opening verses of the Qur'aan. Du'aa, however, can be done in a person's native language; Arabic is completely optional, since Allah knows what is in your heart and He responds to prayer. Salaat is NOT prayer, salaat is considered "worship". Du'aa is prayer, a speaking with your Creator, giving praises and asking for guidance and forgiveness... Which one are you talking about? Because it seems like you're confusing "salaat" with "du'aa"...
Haha, I doubt that. I think if FM had a masjid and I attended, I would sleep through any ritual prayer being held and still be ok. I dunno, better ask Layth
You can believe that if you want, but I seriously doubt it. If they caught you performing ritual salaat, they'd probably vote to have you hanged or killed by firing squad... laugh At the least, though, they'd throw you out of their mosque, claiming that you've succumbed to Sunnism and rejected "true Islaam", which is nothing more than their understanding of it.
-
Okay... First of all, when you speak of "prayer", are you talking about "salaat" or "du'aa"? Du'aa is prayer, while salaat only involves reading from the Qur'aan. Salaat should be done in Arabic, simply because the Qur'aan is in Arabic; the only required passage is "Al Faatiha", the opening verses of the Qur'aan. Du'aa, however, can be done in a person's native language; Arabic is completely optional, since Allah knows what is in your heart and He responds to prayer. Salaat is NOT prayer, salaat is considered "worship". Du'aa is prayer, a speaking with your Creator, giving praises and asking for guidance and forgiveness... Which one are you talking about? Because it seems like you're confusing "salaat" with "du'aa"...
Peace
One of many meanings of "salaat" is "Prayer/supplication".Regards
-
One of many meanings of "salaat" is "Prayer/supplication".
I think that's a bad translation of "salaat". A more appropriate translation of it is worship, contact, connection, or even commitment... The idea of "du'aa" in Islaam always refers to prayers to Allah...
-
I think that's a bad translation of "salaat". A more appropriate translation of it is worship, contact, connection, or even commitment... The idea of "du'aa" in Islaam always refers to prayers to Allah...
Meaning are not established on our whims or after asking us
- ( 1 / 1012)
Regards
-
Meaning are not established on our whims or after asking us
- ( 1 / 1012)
Regards
It's funny how it can't be on OUR whims but it CAN be on the whim of the author of 'basair'.
I'd ask the author of 'basair', does God not not the difference between 'salat' and 'du'a' ? -
Peace,
I agree; but what made you think that I do not agree?Please understand that my intended objective of this topic is to alarm everyone of Free.minds.org new path; The path of judging between Good Understanding Vs Evil understanding of Quran. In doing so, Free-minds.org is not a Moderator of the different understandings of the Quran Aloners, rather, a Judge.
I'm not talking about all the different Articles that are posted in the Articles Section; please understand that I'm talking about the WELCOME Section that speaks about the nature of Free-Minds.org; and as I showed, The Welcome Page containes definitions of "the Good Understanding of Quran" that does not represents all of the Members...Thus, in nature, This is Sectarianism.Of course, we can all debate and call each others sectarians when disagreeing, but free-minds.org has no right to do so.
Peace
We must all judge between ?good understandings? and ?not good understandings? (not ?evil?, just ?not good?). Free-minds is not a person but its webmaster, Layth has the right to give his understandings of things. However, he is not forcing anyone to adopt his views if they want to stick around in the forum. THAT makes him non-sectarian.
-
I think that's a bad translation of "salaat". A more appropriate translation of it is worship, contact, connection, or even commitment... The idea of "du'aa" in Islaam always refers to prayers to Allah...
Salat cannot be a religious act (i.e. worship) since in 5/106, non-believers are to perform as-salat after witnessing the writing of wills.
-
This is false. According to the fundamentals of Sunni Islaam, all a person has to do to be considered a "muslim" is recite the "shahaada kaliyma". Once this is done, that person is considered a Muslim, regardless of the rituals they perform or adoption of Arabic culture... And yes, calling a Muslim a "kafir" is blatant, because all Muslims seek to be removed from the group of disbelievers, those who reject Allah.
Wow, I really don?t know where you get your information sir. Have a look at this
http//www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/10061/not%20praying
He who does not pray is DEFINITELY a kafir.
These members are "recalcitrant"? I already said that this is the MAJORITY of members on here, not just a stubborn minority. When the majority of a group practice wickedness, it's feasible to say that the organization as a whole (minus certain individuals) practices wickedness. That's simple logic...
Oh you took a poll did you? Well done! Can I see the results of your poll or shall I believe in it blindly?
Okay... First of all, when you speak of "prayer", are you talking about "salaat" or "du'aa"? Du'aa is prayer, while salaat only involves reading from the Qur'aan. Salaat should be done in Arabic, simply because the Qur'aan is in Arabic; the only required passage is "Al Faatiha", the opening verses of the Qur'aan. Du'aa, however, can be done in a person's native language; Arabic is completely optional, since Allah knows what is in your heart and He responds to prayer. Salaat is NOT prayer, salaat is considered "worship". Du'aa is prayer, a speaking with your Creator, giving praises and asking for guidance and forgiveness... Which one are you talking about? Because it seems like you're confusing "salaat" with "du'aa"...
Yes, du?a can be in any language. The Salat ritual prayer is done in Arabic because it was adopted from the pre-Muhammadan rituals. If it?s only for recitation of the Quran, then why is one of the pillars of salat the last ?tahiyah? which MUST be said in Arabic?
You can believe that if you want, but I seriously doubt it. If they caught you performing ritual salaat, they'd probably vote to have you hanged or killed by firing squad... laugh At the least, though, they'd throw you out of their mosque, claiming that you've succumbed to Sunnism and rejected "true Islaam", which is nothing more than their understanding of it.
Lol, nonsense dude. One thing I would never accuse FM of is this type of sunni-ish behaviour. Maybe in a generation or two, certainly not now.
-
It's funny how it can't be on OUR whims but it CAN be on the whim of the author of 'basair'.
I'd ask the author of 'basair', does God not not the difference between 'salat' and 'du'a' ?We should not use our brain when authorities have established something already.
-
We should not use our brain when authorities have established something already.
With such useless brains, you will ALSO lose your chance to understand the authorities whoever THEY may be! Well, let me make an exception. As for devils as authorities, you are right; you do not need brains to follow their contradictory teachings, since you do not need to reason or understand them.
Your statement above is a diagnosis of the source of all your problems with Monotheism
- Fear of using your brain.
- Accepting authorities (plural) besids God without questioning them with your brain.
If you care about your eternal life dear RasulHamsa, you need to start using your brains both in rejecting authorities besides God and in following God's authority. Go back and start from the L of La ilahahe illa Allah.
Peace,
Edip -
With such useless brains, you will ALSO lose your chance to understand the authorities whoever THEY may be! As for devils as authorities, you are right; you do not need brains to follow their contradictory teachings, since you do not need to reason or understand them.
Your statement above is a diagnosis of the source of all your problems with Monotheism
- Fear of using your brain.
- Accepting authorities (plural) besids God without questioning them with your brain.
If you care about your eternal life dear RasulHamsa, you need to start using your brains both in rejecting authorities besides God and in following God's authority. Go back and start from the L of La ilahahe illa Allah.
Peace,
Edipdoes that mean you do not agree with me?
-
does that mean you do not agree with me?
Obviously, you are following your own advice and you are not using your brain now. That is consistency! Mashallah, consistency in trashing one's own brain. But I am not an authority; so according to your maxim of not using brains while following authorities, you are okay. I am not one of those many authorities you follow blindly. So try to understand my simple rejection of your call for not using our brains.
Peace,
Edip -
I'm not a Quran aloner, but I'm not a sunni or shia either. What am I ???
you are a Jew.
-
We should not use our brain when authorities have established something already.
Sorry pal. Me rode that ship for 20 years before realising 'authority' can easily be 'opportunistic liars trying to subvert the deen'. Now my only authority is God.
-
I'm not a Quran aloner, but I'm not a sunni or shia either. What am I ???
You are a recluse! ;D Or you are an observer in an ivory tower, or you are an agnostic, or a new-age guy, or a Zen, or you are one of the zillions ....... out there peace
Edip
-
I'm not a Quran aloner, but I'm not a sunni or shia either. What am I ???
Confused?