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  4. Qur'an as a constitution or an inspiration

Qur'an as a constitution or an inspiration

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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    abdalquran
    wrote on last edited by
    #8

    I speak of national constitutions.

    In your definition above , principles of state and society is mentioned. Principles are filtered, distilled and above all interpreted. The Quran must be interpreted. A reader is required for that purpose.

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      Ahmad_Bilal
      wrote on last edited by
      #9

      I speak of national constitutions.

      In your definition above , principles of state and society is mentioned. Principles are filtered, distilled and above all interpreted. The Quran must be interpreted. A reader is required for that purpose.

      Okay...? I don't understand why you said the Qur'an CAN'T be a "constitution". A constitution doesn't simply apply to nations, but it could apply to any group of people, or even to a single person...

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        abdalquran
        wrote on last edited by
        #10

        If it's for a single person, that's fine. But not for a group of people UNLESS they agree to an expression of Quran as a series of articles. Quran is an uninterpreted text, dhikr. It requires language and logic to be interpreted.

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          Ahmad_Bilal
          wrote on last edited by
          #11

          If it's for a single person, that's fine. But not for a group of people UNLESS they agree to an expression of Quran as a series of articles. Quran is an uninterpreted text, dhikr. It requires language and logic to be interpreted.

          This is the same as a constitution. Constitutions, in some cases, must also be interpreted through language and logic. Therefore, just as with the case of a national constitution, we're speaking about the Qur'aan being a constitution FOR THE BELIEVERS... What's wrong with this?

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            abdalquran
            wrote on last edited by
            #12

            This is the same as a constitution. Constitutions, in some cases, must also be interpreted through language and logic. Therefore, just as with the case of a national constitution, we're speaking about the Qur'aan being a constitution FOR THE BELIEVERS... What's wrong with this?

            What's wrong is that you can get believers who think there are rituals in Quran, who quote Ahmedi websites to justify sunni opinion, who spent countless hours finding imaginary codes.

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              Ahmad_Bilal
              wrote on last edited by
              #13

              What's wrong is that you can get believers who think there are rituals in Quran, who quote Ahmedi websites to justify sunni opinion, who spent countless hours finding imaginary codes.

              And again, EVEN MORE FOOLISHNESS FROM YOU... It's pretty obvious to everyone reading this thread that you have no idea what the Qur'aanic commandments consist of, you don't know how the believers interpret the scripture, and you have no idea what a "constitution" is. I suggest you use a dictionary, along with a little common sense. Maybe you'll learn something...

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                bkanwar2
                wrote on last edited by
                #14

                Dear brothers, please understand the difference. Alkitab= the bound book of principles, Dalika= eternally for. AlQur'Aan= The one I established. What is established by "I" or our Rubb? All universe, including us. We need to understand eternal principles given in AlKitab, first; to be able to easily understand AlQur'Aan, that is to say, all what is establised by our Rubb, including ourselves.

                Badar

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                  MUNZIR_ALI
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #15

                  Scriptures give only guidelines to establishing constitutions.

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                    abdalquran
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #16

                    And again, EVEN MORE FOOLISHNESS FROM YOU... ) It's pretty obvious to everyone reading this thread that you have no idea what the Qur'aanic commandments consist of, you don't know how the believers interpret the scripture, and you have no idea what a "constitution" is. I suggest you use a dictionary, along with a little common sense. Maybe you'll learn something...

                    Can you provide me evidence from the Quran (not Ahmediya, lahori or otherwise, websites) that the believers are meant to confer with each other for QURANIC INTERPRETATIONS and CREATION OF CONSTITUTIONS (the caps are necessary to ensure you don't stray from the point as usual).

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                      abdalquran
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #17

                      Dear brothers, please understand the difference. Alkitab= the bound book of principles, Dalika= eternally for. AlQur'Aan= The one I established. What is established by "I" or our Rubb? All universe, including us. We need to understand eternal principles given in AlKitab, first; to be able to easily understand AlQur'Aan, that is to say, all what is establised by our Rubb, including ourselves.

                      Badar

                      Badar, how'd u get your definitions. Dhalika means 'that'. Qur'an means 'recitation' or 'declaration'.

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                        abdalquran
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #18

                        Scriptures give only guidelines to establishing constitutions.

                        EXACTLY ! That's why Quran never says its a constitution of anything (arabic would be 'qanoon', a word not used in Quran). Rather its 'huda' or guidance and so we must constantly refer to it in whatever we do (including writing constitutions).

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                          Mazhar
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #19

                          A constitution is a statement outlining the basic laws or principles by which a country or organization or people are governed. It has a permanent and stable value for all outlining fundamental values to be adhered to by all. It is a code of conduct of a nation.

                          A part of Grand Qur'aan outlines and permanently prescribes the permanent values and code of conduct.

                          Hence Qur'aan has already given in writing what today we perceive from the word "Constitution".

                          And what we understand from "Qanoon" or "law" is a statement that prescribes and guides for everyday conduct of individuals of the nation and society as a whole. Conduct is in time and space, and time means day and night. Qur'aan calls it Huda and it is itself Al Huda, a Guide in time and space for shaping one's conduct in varying situations of time and space.

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                            abdalquran
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #20

                            What about the element of interpretation, Mazhar?

                            Who gets to be the interpreter?

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                              Mazhar
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #21

                              What about the element of interpretation, Mazhar?

                              Who gets to be the interpreter?

                              By interpretation we understand in common parlance an explanation or establishment of the meaning or significance of something. Qur'aan is introduced and defined as a book. All the principles regarding reading, understanding and translating of a book which are universally accepted shall be applied to the Qur'aan too. Book comprises of words and words have predefined perceptions, meaning and added connotations. Grand Qur'aan is a remarkable Book. It translates itself about all important matters which will have value for determining and proving the criminals beyond shadow of doubt that they acted defiantly despite knowing and understanding vividly what they were required to abstain from and its consequence.

                              The ultimate objective of "interpretation" is to make two things distinct and crystal clear from each other and in Arabic the word for it is

                              So He has already given the interpretation of Qur'aan.

                              http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/006.%20Al%20Anaam/temp%2002%206.055.gif
                              And like this/in this manner We make the Aa'ya'at/knowledge about things distinct/crystal clear so that the path/way/conduct of criminals may become demarcated/manifested/highlighted.

                              http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/006.%20Al%20Anaam/006.%20Al%20Anaam%20A.htm

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                                abdalquran
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #22

                                That's great Mazhar, thank you.

                                Can you please tell me, between the two parties who say salat are

                                1. a ritual
                                2. not a ritual

                                which one is following God's bayan?

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                                  Mazhar
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #23

                                  That's great Mazhar, thank you.

                                  Can you please tell me, between the two parties who say salat are

                                  1. a ritual
                                  2. not a ritual

                                  which one is following God's bayan?

                                  According to dictionary ritual is defined as an established and prescribed pattern of observance, performance of formal acts the observance of actions or procedures in a set, ordered, and ceremonial way; system of rites the system of set procedures and actions of a group.

                                  But a perception of monotony and routine has also become associated to it when this is referred for a religious activity.

                                  Salat in that sense is not a ritual, everytime it is fresh affirmation of sincerity and allegiance to Allah through physical demonstration at prescribed timings and a proof of commanality amongst a group of people. It is part of Islam, i.e. Deen which relates to physical evidence of ones belief. It is congregational and demonstrative. It is practical and concern more of declarative memory-Anything which is in declarative memory is always easy to remember and recall/retrieve. Through this Allah always remains in ones memory.

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                                    bkanwar2
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #24

                                    Badar, how'd u get your definitions. Dhalika means 'that'. Qur'an means 'recitation' or 'declaration'.

                                    Dear Brother, very easy if you pay attention to only script and follow the rules of writting script ignoring changes in the language over years. Dhalika is combination of , , , and personal pronoun . How come this could mean "that" only? If you follow this you will understand rest as well, with out any problem.

                                    Badar

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                                      abdalquran
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #25

                                      According to dictionary ritual is defined as an established and prescribed pattern of observance, performance of formal acts the observance of actions or procedures in a set, ordered, and ceremonial way; system of rites the system of set procedures and actions of a group.

                                      But a perception of monotony and routine has also become associated to it when this is referred for a religious activity.

                                      Salat in that sense is not a ritual, everytime it is fresh affirmation of sincerity and allegiance to Allah through physical demonstration at prescribed timings and a proof of commanality amongst a group of people. It is part of Islam, i.e. Deen which relates to physical evidence of ones belief. It is congregational and demonstrative. It is practical and concern more of declarative memory-Anything which is in declarative memory is always easy to remember and recall/retrieve. Through this Allah always remains in ones memory.

                                      Mazhar, this is YOUR explanation, not Allah?s explanation. That doesn?t mean its wrong but we can never deny the human agency in explaining the Quran. Allah gives the bayan yes, but to the individual reader (you quoted 75/19, thumma alaina bayanahu. See 75/16, it says ?do not rush YOUR tongue?. The ?your? here is singular. It?s to individual reader. You can never objectively prove it).

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                                        abdalquran
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #26

                                        Dear Brother, very easy if you pay attention to only script and follow the rules of writting script ignoring changes in the language over years. Dhalika is combination of , , , and personal pronoun . How come this could mean "that" only? If you follow this you will understand rest as well, with out any problem.
                                        Badar

                                        Ok. 2 Questions please

                                        1. Why doesn't it mean 'posessed by you' (dhaa - posesses , li - to, ka - you)

                                        2. Why did you stop at 'dhaa' and not 'dhaal' as in 'dhali' and 'ka'?

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                                          bkanwar2
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #27

                                          Ok. 2 Questions please

                                          1. Why doesn't it mean 'posessed by you' (dhaa - posesses , li - to, ka - you)

                                          2. Why did you stop at 'dhaa' and not 'dhaal' as in 'dhali' and 'ka'?

                                          Dear Brother when read carefully in Lane, is used for this and that, suggesting meanings of nearness in time that is by "this" as well farness in time that is "that". So how would one translate this concept in English that is both this and that. Close and far, in time. Only word "eternal" could express this concept. What is this "dhaa" and posesses from?

                                          Badar

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