Allah told guests not to linger in Muhammad's house because that "bothers" him?
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Peace,
Respectfully.I see prophet/messenger Muhammad as a shy person and also as a polite person who apparently didn't have a heart to tell people to beat it. But ther eis something called privacy and even though he needed privacy like everyone else, he didn't wanna be rude or insult anyone but God says it very clearly in the quoted verse, that He does not shy away from The Truth.
What is this great need for privacy that people have to leave right after eating? Is his house no better than a restaurant? That people can't even have a few words after their meal, but have to be sent off.
If he had told this without using any revelation, obviously people would be offended. Had anyone told their friends that they're not to linger for moment after eating, that they need to clear off, their friends would stop being friends.
Probably Muhammad's followers too would behave likewise had he told them himself, but as it was Allah telling them, they could do nothing but obey(clear out right after eating or burn in Hell).
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Fawzia, you're entitled to your opinion, even to your rejection of Islam and the Quran. However, lets not forget, you're voicing YOUR opinion just as the others are voicing theirs. As such, we're have our etiquette and you have yours.
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Sure, privacy is allright, but this is pretty rude to friends\followers to insist that they shoo away immediately after eating. Whats' the point of making friends if you are so annoyed if they sit down & chat for sometime?
This is extremely rude, if someone tells their friends, "Hey folks,gulp your dinner down as fast as you can & don't stay in my house a second longer for chatting."
If there has to be a genuine feeling of consideration & mutual privacy as you call it, it is extremely unbrotherly to shoo people out as soon as they have eaten. It is bad manners, friednship is meant for having small talk with friends.
If any other human did that, told their friends not to linger a moment after eating & shoo off immediately, they'd be left friendless, so would Prophet Muhammad, had he told his followers himself, rather than saying it in the form of revelations.
Is this really good etiqette, Islamic or unIslamic? Only & strictly visit when invited, why friends might need to visit sometimes without seeking appointments, if they seek sympathy & support from you.Also, is it right to shoo people out immediately after they have eaten, asking them not to chat at all?
Surely, an invitation to a dinner at a friends' house is different from a restaurant, had some friend iof mine told me & others to never visit or ask friends to invite us home, visit his\her house only for the duration of eating & run off afterwards, we'd prefer not to visit at all, go to restaurants instead! yes
Besides, is it good etiquette that your friends' wife\wives, can only be spoken with from behind a curtain? A friend's wife can also easily become a good female friend(& a woman can be simply friends with her woman friend's husband without lusting for him sexually).Men & women can have great platonic relationships, its not neccessary that the opposite sex can only be viewed sexually.
There was little need to segregate wife\wives, this type of "etiquette" as seen in the Quran leads to gender apartheid in many places, including my birthplace Iran.
Hi Fawzia
Prophet wives were different then you, you can keep a boy friend but.
The Prophet wives are the mothers of all believers, models for all Muslim women,You cannot compare yourself or the modren ladies doing all sort of bad things.Sorry if i offended you.
The Prophet is closer to the believers than their own selves, and his wives are their mothers... (Surat al-Ahzab 6)
It is not right for you to cause annoyance to the Messenger of Allah or ever to marry his wives after him. To do that would be a dreadful thing in Allah's sight. (Surat al-Ahzab 53)
Wives of the Prophet! You are not like other women provided you heed Allah. Do not be too soft-spoken in your speech lest someone with sickness in his heart becomes desirous. Speak correct and courteous words. Remain in your houses and do not display your beauty as it was previously displayed in the Time of Ignorance. Establish prayer and pay welfare tax and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah desires to remove all impurity from you, People of the House, and to purify you completely. And remember the Signs of Allah and the wise words which are recited in your rooms. Allah is All-Pervading, All-Aware.(Surat al-Ahzab 32-34)
Wives of the Prophet! If any of you commits an obvious act of indecency she will receive double the punishment. That is an easy matter for Allah. But those of you who are obedient to Allah and His Messenger and act rightly will be given their reward twice over; and We have prepared generous provision for them. (Surat al-Ahzab 30-31 -
who is narrating aya 3353?
the prophet? is the prophet saying that... the prophet is too shy to tell you....? then how is he telling you in the first place?The Prophet is claiming that all this is a revelation, I can't prove or disprove this.
He prefers not to tell guests to shoo off right after eating, but Allah is suposedly obliging & doing it for him.
How do I know who is actually saying what?
The Prophet isn't the first man in history claiming to recieve revelations from God\s, nor was he that last, there have been & still are many religion founders & cult leaders who claim to have spoken to God-the Prophet is merely one such person, its difficult to believe or disbelieve his claims more than any other person's.
Had a heard a person making such a "revelation" from God that He\She wants me to shoo out immediately after eating, no chatting afterwards, & God is telling me to get out coz' he's uncomfortable telling me this, I'd immediately suspect that the person is using God's name to make his life more comfortable.
Hi Fawzia
Prophet wives were different then you, you can keep a boy friend but.
The Prophet wives are the mothers of all believers, models for all Muslim women,You cannot compare yourself or the modren ladies doing all sort of bad things.Sorry if i offended you.
The Prophet is closer to the believers than their own selves, and his wives are their mothers... (Surat al-Ahzab 6)
It is not right for you to cause annoyance to the Messenger of Allah or ever to marry his wives after him. To do that would be a dreadful thing in Allah's sight. (Surat al-Ahzab 53)
Wives of the Prophet! You are not like other women provided you heed Allah. Do not be too soft-spoken in your speech lest someone with sickness in his heart becomes desirous. Speak correct and courteous words. Remain in your houses and do not display your beauty as it was previously displayed in the Time of Ignorance. Establish prayer and pay welfare tax and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah desires to remove all impurity from you, People of the House, and to purify you completely. And remember the Signs of Allah and the wise words which are recited in your rooms. Allah is All-Pervading, All-Aware.(Surat al-Ahzab 32-34)
Wives of the Prophet! If any of you commits an obvious act of indecency she will receive double the punishment. That is an easy matter for Allah. But those of you who are obedient to Allah and His Messenger and act rightly will be given their reward twice over; and We have prepared generous provision for them. (Surat al-Ahzab 30-31What is "all sorts of bad things," please?
I am not even speaking of boyfriends, simply having platonic friendships & speaking to men face to face.
I have great interaction with both males & females, but they're simply platonic relationships-its possible to see the face of a person of the opposite sex & still have simply platonic interactions with him\her you know.
I have a teacher in my university who is male, he's a great favorite with all the students, both male & female because he teaches so well & understands all students so well.
Even if we have some problem not related to studies, he helps us out, like some "father" would do. That doesn't mean that we have to speak to him from behind veils!
Also, women who married Muhammad before he claimed to be a Prophet, like Khadija could easily lead her life to the fullest, employing men to work for her, overseeing her huge business empire-Muhammad by creating a hypersexualized society, where his wives will be shielded from the public eye completely by speaking from behind curtains, refused their personal mobility, gave an example which is still making Muslimahs suffer in many parts of the world.
Since the Prophet & his wives are models of good conduct-& models for other Muslim women, other Muslimahs too are forced to veil, to not have interaction with men of the opposite sex etc.Men too, as they try to model themselves on Muhammad, want to restrict the mobility & freedom of their womenfolk.
This has made women in my nation Iran, & other places suffer. They are made to cover up, & even platonic friendships & inter relationships between colleagues are viewed with suspicion.
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Fawzia, it's very interesting you claimed to be an ex-Quranist before yet you don't know the Quranists' views on this issue. police
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Sure, privacy is allright, but this is pretty rude to friends\followers to insist that they shoo away immediately after eating. Whats' the point of making friends if you are so annoyed if they sit down & chat for sometime?
The prophet was a very busy person. And getting relevation from God, imagine how much of a psycological effect this should be.
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And Munzir, don't forget he was busy talking to believers all day long. Isn't he entitled to a little privacy?
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These are the relevant verses, as used in this site
3353 O you who believe, do not enter the homes of the prophet unless you are invited to a meal, without you forcing such an invitation. But if you are invited, you may enter. And when you finish eating, you shall leave, without staying to wait for a narrative. This used to bother the prophet, and he was shy to tell you. But God does not shy away from the truth. And if you ask his wives for something, ask them from behind a barrier. This is purer for your hearts and their hearts. And it is not for you to harm the messenger of God, nor that you should marry his wives after him. This is indeed a gross offence with God.
Why is the Creator of the Universe, doing such trivial things for Muhammad? Muhammad is annoyed that guests are lingering at his house & making small talk, he wants them to shoo off, so Allah is needed to do this!
Why can't Muhammad say this himself?
Why does (supposedly) Creator of the Universe, need to say this type of thing coz Muhamad is shy(although he is secretly annoyed)?
Does this type of stuff & by play need to be inserted in what is supposedly the Last Message from the Creator.
This & many other bits used to bother me when I still considered myself a Quranist Muslim, it makes me laugh now! ;D
P.S. I don't mean to insult, but I do find this odd.
This verse is a proof for later generations that the Messenger did not oblige anyone with a statement/hadith of his own except the Hadith of Allah, the Grand Qur'aan, and his habit of taking extreme care of manners, and also tells that irrelevant talk for conjectural stories is a source of irritation for the one who listens and talks only the fact.
Allah?s command Do not sit for taking ?Hadith? from The Messenger {Urdu}
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http//i318.photobucket.com/albums/mm437/wabiljahil/43.jpg
http//i318.photobucket.com/albums/mm437/wabiljahil/44.jpg
http//i318.photobucket.com/albums/mm437/wabiljahil/45.jpg -
The Prophet is claiming that all this is a revelation, I can't prove or disprove this.
He prefers not to tell guests to shoo off right after eating, but Allah is suposedly obliging & doing it for him.
How do I know who is actually saying what?
The Prophet isn't the first man in history claiming to recieve revelations from God\s, nor was he that last, there have been & still are many religion founders & cult leaders who claim to have spoken to God-the Prophet is merely one such person, its difficult to believe or disbelieve his claims more than any other person's.
Had a heard a person making such a "revelation" from God that He\She wants me to shoo out immediately after eating, no chatting afterwards, & God is telling me to get out coz' he's uncomfortable telling me this, I'd immediately suspect that the person is using God's name to make his life more comfortable. D
What is "all sorts of bad things," please?
I am not even speaking of boyfriends, simply having platonic friendships & speaking to men face to face.
I have great interaction with both males & females, but they're simply platonic relationships-its possible to see the face of a person of the opposite sex & still have simply platonic interactions with him\her you know.
I have a teacher in my university who is male, he's a great favorite with all the students, both male & female because he teaches so well & understands all students so well.
Even if we have some problem not related to studies, he helps us out, like some "father" would do. That doesn't mean that we have to speak to him from behind veils!
Also, women who married Muhammad before he claimed to be a Prophet, like Khadija could easily lead her life to the fullest, employing men to work for her, overseeing her huge business empire-Muhammad by creating a hypersexualized society, where his wives will be shielded from the public eye completely by speaking from behind curtains, refused their personal mobility, gave an example which is still making Muslimahs suffer in many parts of the world.
Since the Prophet & his wives are models of good conduct-& models for other Muslim women, other Muslimahs too are forced to veil, to not have interaction with men of the opposite sex etc.Men too, as they try to model themselves on Muhammad, want to restrict the mobility & freedom of their womenfolk.
This has made women in my nation Iran, & other places suffer. They are made to cover up, & even platonic friendships & inter relationships between colleagues are viewed with suspicion.
Peace fawzia you must be living in a palace or a big villa or a luxury flat but consider those who are living in small houses a single or a two bedroom.
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What is this great need for privacy that people have to leave right after eating? Is his house no better than a restaurant? That people can't even have a few words after their meal, but have to be sent off.
If he had told this without using any revelation, obviously people would be offended. Had anyone told their friends that they're not to linger for moment after eating, that they need to clear off, their friends would stop being friends.
Probably Muhammad's followers too would behave likewise had he told them himself, but as it was Allah telling them, they could do nothing but obey(clear out right after eating or burn in Hell).Peace,
Respectfully.You do understand that he was also a married man, that he had business, enemies, business partners, revelation and many other things, he wasn't immune to headaches, right?
God bless you.
Peace. -
Hi Fawzia,
This & many other bits used to bother me when I still considered myself a Quranist Muslim, it makes me laugh now! Grin
P.S. I don't mean to insult, but I do find this odd.
The implication here is that you no longer consider yourself Muslim of any type so I am interested in asking you, what do you think Muhammad's agenda might have been in reciting the qu'ran? Do you think he was just mad or why do you think he wanted his peers, having lived a peaceful and successful life amongst them to turn to a monotheistic faith, only to sufffer a series of mounting hostilities. Why do you think it was so important for him? And why do you think, he did not repeat the christian belief that jesus was god, crucified for mankind's sins thus potentially gaining the support of people who followed that religion more easily.
I am curious because one of the reasons, I continue to believe the Qu'ran is because I can't see what Muhammad's ulterior motive might have been. It seems to me that he tried very hard to distance himself from becoming an icon, to make god the center of attention in Islam, not himself, something which is not a trait of megalomaniacs.
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Fawzia may not assume that the Qur'an is not revealed or that it is revealed, but she does seem to assume some other things, like for instance that that those invited for a meal at the Prophet's home were his friends or friends of the family or that Muhammad had a following of four or five persons or even twenty. If for one instant we assume that he had a few hundred, the fact that he wouldn't have an appointed time to attend to them all is unthinkable. Therefore he had commitments along the day that he had to fulfill. Suppose he did invite for a meal, and then since he had after some other commitment, and he should have since He did have followers who were also followers a much as those invited for the meal and therefore had to be also treated as such and attended too. He had to wash, brush his teeth, clean his clothes, his house, dictate Qur'an, pray and meditat, attend normal business, and... again, to come up with a list of the things Muhammad could or could not do, an exact number of the followers would be absolutely necessary. At this time this aya was revealed the folowers were already very many. He may have gone much much out of his way to invite people for a meal so as to be kind to everybody, but since the people he had to be kind to were very many, either everybody has in mind that fact and voluntarily observes clear limits to their enttlement to the Prophet's direct attention in order to let other people and commitments of the Prophet fit, or simply he cannot have people invited nor people come for errands to his wives or for anything else, only close friends and family. But the Holy Qur'an is not talking about close friends and family, but about the whole muslim community. So in in fact, I find that the Prophet and his wives were exceptionally approachable. Very symptomatic that he had companions and not disciples or subordinates of any kind. In fact the community of Muhammad is a community of companions. Alhamdulillah.
Completely opposite to wht Fawzia states, the Prophet comes across to me like is precisely as what the Qur'an shows, and extremely benevolent and complacent person who had enourmous trouble saying no to anybody or being harsh or categoric to anybody. A person most people would have loved. And the fact that God speaks on this is because what he did and what the believers did mattered and also because what the Qur'an says, today, when people's lives are sold to TV and mass media exhibition does also matter.
Salaam
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peace Mazhar, all,
Thanks for pointing out that the word used is "hadith"! I never saw that before, or at least I cant recall.
That would mean God is telling them do not stay for "hadith" from the prophet, and this MUST be hadith NOT from The Quran, we can exclude this because if it was, this would cause problems in other places of The Quran when it says to guide those who seek guidance, do not turn them away etc. So this observation provides even more weight that the author of The Quran viewed the prophet's hadith (note, it does not use the term messenger) very differently to the author's hadith, i.e. did not give them equal footing and considers them unecessary!
As a result, I have corrected my article
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Hadith_in_Quran.htm -
Salam,
Iwent through the article.
The so-called 1st pillar of Islam does not exist in The Quran.
This statement may also be misleading. For everything there has to be an initial point, to begin with. And so for Islam also there is a beginning, which was emphasised by all the Messengers in time and space.
