Producing something "similar to it"
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I think I get into arguments about this more than anything else. To me it's clear that it's referring to an accusation of plagiarism. The opponents of the Prophet were accusing him of ripping off Jewish/Christian mythology. The Quran points out that its revelation's aren't in Hebrew or Greek or any foreign language, but rather Arabic. Therefore, if the Prophet is simply reading from a prepared text, produce the source-text, i.e. a Surah like it.
...Really? Does it mean something similar as in the 'original' or something similar found out independently?
My question basically is, is it different in Arabic, when they say 'like it'? Because in English, it seems to suggest something similar without necessarily one being copied from the other.
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The key to this is the word 'mithl'. 10/38 says 'fa'too bisuraatin min MITHLIhi' (so bring forth a sura like it).
Mithl shows form and here I take it to mean subject,theme, genre. 'Tamathil' is used in the Quran to denote 'likenesses'.
What the Quran is asking for is that we produce something like in terms of what it's about. Quran is about guidance to man and so any text challenging it must produce guidance to man better than Quran.
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What the Quran is asking for is that we produce something like in terms of what it's about. Quran is about guidance to man and so any text challenging it must produce guidance to man better than Quran.
Is there anything in that verse suggesting something 'like it' with respect to guidance alone? It could be rhyme, or metre, or other things.
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You might want to look at the context. 10/38 begins with , imho, 10/35
10/35 asks for anything more capable to guide (yahdi ila al-haqq is the key phrase here)
10/36 says conjecture cannot avail against al-haqq
10/37 al-quran's relation to al-kitab (god's teachings, which it details)
10/38 is the challenge itself.As such, i dont think it has anything to do with literary aspects of the text.
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You might want to look at the context. 10/38 begins with , imho, 10/35
10/35 asks for anything more capable to guide (yahdi ila al-haqq is the key phrase here)
10/36 says conjecture cannot avail against al-haqq
10/37 al-quran's relation to al-kitab (god's teachings, which it details)
10/38 is the challenge itself.As such, i dont think it has anything to do with literary aspects of the text.
Thanks
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The Quran points out that its revelation's aren't in Hebrew or Greek or any foreign language, but rather Arabic. Therefore, if the Prophet is simply reading from a prepared text, produce the source-text, i.e. a Surah like it.
You mean in Arabic like this?
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Really? Does it mean something similar as in the 'original' or something similar found out independently?
My question basically is, is it different in Arabic, when they say 'like it'? Because in English, it seems to suggest something similar without necessarily one being copied from the other.
...........they could never produce anything like it, no matter how much assistance they lent one another 1788
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What is that supposed to mean? This is supposed to be the challenge of the Qur'an, to produce a Surah similar to Qur'an. But in what way? This sounds vague. The opposite of similarity is difference. And anything that's not the same is different. So anything that isn't identical to a Qur'anic verse is going to be different right? I hope that wasn't confusing.
I just don't understand what producing something "similar to it" means. I mean, I could write a poem about the earth and nature and that would be similar to the Qur'an because they both talk about earth and nature- That's the similarity.
Peace GC and welcome to this forum )
Fall on the way, weather getting cooler and spend more time in on this screen. Have you read this file ?
Peace. -
Where did you find this phrase in Quran ?
I didn't. I simply rephrased it from 'ahaqqu an yuttabaAAa amman la yahiddee illa an yuhda ' (more deserving that its followed than he who isn't guided unless he is guided himself'. To me, this makes Quran 'better'.
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you mean? ???
I don't mean that because as far as I can see, killing each other isn't following Quran's commands.
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I didn't. I simply rephrased it from 'ahaqqu an yuttabaAAa amman la yahiddee illa an yuhda ' (more deserving that its followed than he who isn't guided unless he is guided himself'. To me, this makes Quran 'better'.
For me and other 7 million earth population would not be easy to find out if this one is better than Quran but simple just by learning only one letter "Q" i see difference.
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I don't mean that because as far as I can see, killing each other isn't following Quran's commands.
So no matter what kind of message be revealed , they do what they like to do. It is not meaning of messages as they are complete and detailed.
3184If they reject you, messengers before you have been rejected, even though they brought proofs, the Psalms, and the enlightening scripture.
4163We have inspired you, as we inspired Noah and the prophets after him. And we inspired Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, the Patriarchs, Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon. And we gave David the Psalms.
1755Your Lord is the best knower of everyone in the heavens and the earth. In accordance with this knowledge, we preferred some prophets over others. For example, we gave David the Psalms.
21105We have decreed in the Psalms, as well as in other scriptures, that the earth shall be inherited by My righteous worshipers.
3525If they disbelieve you, those before them have also disbelieved. Their messengers went to them with clear proofs, and the Psalms, and the enlightening scriptures.
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For me and other 7 million earth population would not be easy to find out if this one is better than Quran but simple just by learning only one letter "Q" i see difference.
You're not reading the context of 10/38. It's got nothing to do with numerical structures if they exist. It's talking about Quran as a work to guide mankind.
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You're not reading the context of 10/38. It's got nothing to do with numerical structures if they exist. It's talking about Quran as a work to guide mankind.
that is true. It is strange that the so called gematrical values came into widespread use only a few hundred years after the Quran was written down
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You're not reading the context of 10/38. It's got nothing to do with numerical structures if they exist. It's talking about Quran as a work to guide mankind.
This Quran could not possibly be authored by other than GOD.
Do you have proof?
It confirms all previous messages,
How it can confirm without proof.?
and provides a fully detailed scripture.
It is infallible,
What is proof?
for it comes from the Lord of the universe.
What is proof ?
If they say, "He fabricated it,"
Writing is fabrication ? Repeating same messages in previous scripture is fabrication ?
Or revealing secret of 7 pairs is?say, "Then produce one sura like these, and invite whomever you wish, other than GOD, if you are truthful."
God did not know future?
God did not know that they will produce one like those that you people think ?
Indeed, they have rejected this without studying and examining it,
Examining what ?
Text for accuracy?
Meaning ?
What is there that God hints examining. ?and before understanding it.
Have you understood Miracle?
When confirms all previous scriptures then why should be examined?
Thus did those before them disbelieve.
Messages do not end with me and you. Future generations will read same and find on this screen how you poeple due to your connection to your past belief reject it.
Therefore, note the consequences for the transgressorsA.L.R. These (letters) are the proofs of this book of wisdom
A.L.R. These (letters) are proofs of this profound scripture
131] A. L. M. R.* These (letters) are proofs of this scripture. What is revealed to you
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A.L.R.* These (letters) are proofs of this scripture; a profound om your Lord is the truth, but most people do not believe.
T. S. M. (Ta, Seen, Mim)
These (letters) constitute proofs of this clarifying scripture
A. L. M.
These (letters) constitute proofs of this book of wisdom.
S. (Saad), and the Quran that contains the proof.
Tomorrow is late.
08/10/2009 94250 PM
Peace