Islam spreading fast?
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Peace Rev.John
I don't have the statistics in front of me so I would not know. However, I agree that if there are people leaving Islam then it?s probably because of their secular beliefs rather than Islam. I would rather people find the true Islam (uphold the Quran) than believe in particular man made traditions and chucked in cultural practices. We must understand that there is about 1 billion Muslims in the world today. How many of them actually read the Quran? Probably most of them. How many understand what they are reading? Probably not that many. So my question to everyone is how can these people uphold a system and live by a Book which they don't understand? Consider this, for 800 years the Arabs ruled over Spain, left wonderful monuments, but when they were kicked out of Spain not one person was left back to give a call to prayer, why? Why did they not try to convert people to Islam?
2256 There is no compulsion in the system; the proper way has been
clarified from the wrong way. Whoever rejects evil, and believes
in God, indeed he has taken grasp of the strongest hold that will
never break. God is Hearer, Knower.Some may argue based on the verse above. But my argument goes back to what I said about the understanding of the Quran. My belief in Islam has been strong since I started to read the Quran in the language I understand. Now our expectation is that everyone learns Arabic and eventually understands the Quran and converts. This is wishful thinking. See many Muslims in today?s society and probably way back consider the Quran to be a book of recitation (repeat like parrots), but the Quran says
482 Do they not reflect on the Reading? If it was from any other than
God they would have found in it many a discrepancy.
Now how can people reflect on the Reading if they do not understand?82 The believers are those whom, when God is mentioned, their
hearts reverence; and when His revelations are recited to them, it
increases their faith; and they put their trust in their Lord.Again, how could just reciting be enough to increase someone?s faith? Surely you recite something to someone so they can understand it.
831 And if Our revelations are recited to them, they say ?We have
listened, and if we wish, we could have said the same thing. This
is nothing except fictional tales of old!?Now if something is recited without understanding, how will someone be able to say that they are fictional tales of old? They must have understood to say such a thing.
1016 Say ?If God had willed, I would not have recited it to you, nor
would you have known about it. I have been residing among you
for nearly a lifetime before this; do you not comprehend??So how can someone comprehend if they do not understand what you are reciting?
There are probably loads more examples so will leave it to more knowledgeable people to help me out here. Let me come to the point, the Quran is a message to the people of the World and not only to Arabs, the Arabs duty was to relay the message to the World in the best possible way they could by translating the Book truthfully into many different languages to spread the message. They should be the one reaching out to the people to show them the message rather than waiting for the people to come to them. Can you imagine this Rev.John, you preaching in your church in a language that none of your congregation understand and expect them to go and learn the language. I am sure you will find yourself very much alone.
Let me share a small story with you. When I found Free-Minds I started to read all the articles etc.. Then I learned what I was reciting in my prayers. For 30 odd years I prayed in Arabic and did not know what I was saying. When I asked my friend, who at the time was a more devoted muslim than I was, do you know what you are saying when you pray? He said sort of, but not exactly sure. So I said this is what you say when you read sura 1 etc. He was shocked, because he stopped and thought for a bit. All these years he learnt the recitation of the Quran, used them in his prayers etc... but did not understand what he was saying. Another friend of mine always boasted about how many suras he knows by heart. When I asked him how many of them do you understand or can tell me what they mean? He stopped thought about it and said none except a few word here and there.I say without understanding the link is weak, so easy to fall out.
Peace
Hope
It would be wonderful news if more people were having a belief in God, but, sadly I'm not sure this is the case. If the figures just show people moving from one religion to another, that is good news for that religion (or belief system) but not good news for God believers as a whole. Here in the US there are so many religions, denominations, sects, etc all plying for the same people, why don't they all get together to try to show the non-believers that they are misguided? I believe the God-aloners in all religions are the only way forward, to show the world religions 'can" get along with eachother and that there is very little difference between us, maybe then we can be on our way to completing the job God gave us.
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It would be wonderful news if more people were having a belief in God, but, sadly I'm not sure this is the case. If the figures just show people moving from one religion to another, that is good news for that religion (or belief system) but not good news for God believers as a whole. Here in the US there are so many religions, denominations, sects, etc all plying for the same people, why don't they all get together to try to show the non-believers that they are misguided? I believe the God-aloners in all religions are the only way forward, to show the world religions 'can" get along with eachother and that there is very little difference between us, maybe then we can be on our way to completing the job God gave us.
Peace Rev.John
Totally agree with you that a cooperative effort will bring people closer to living peacefully and understand each other. Lots of people in the world live without rules or boundaries or do not have a conscious, thus the evil they do is unbelieveable. I really don't know how we or anyone else could really make a difference but the key is never to give up and invite people to study religion centred around God as this I believe is the right path.
Peace
Hope
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Peace Rev.John
Totally agree with you that a cooperative effort will bring people closer to living peacefully and understand each other. Lots of people in the world live without rules or boundaries or do not have a conscious, thus the evil they do is unbelieveable. I really don't know how we or anyone else could really make a difference but the key is never to give up and invite people to study religion centred around God as this I believe is the right path.
Peace
Hope
bravo bravo I agree, we must keep trying until we succeed.
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bravo bravo I agree, we must keep trying until we succeed.
group
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Totally agree with you that a cooperative effort will bring people closer to living peacefully and understand each other. Lots of people in the world live without rules or boundaries or do not have a conscious, thus the evil they do is unbelieveable. I really don't know how we or anyone else could really make a difference but the key is never to give up and invite people to study religion centred around God as this I believe is the right path.
I agree... handshake
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Peace
Seeing that we are in a good mood and everyone is of agreement, how about a prayer Rev.John to help us on our way
Peace
Hope
That is a good idea. bravo
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Peace
Seeing that we are in a good mood and everyone is of agreement, how about a prayer Rev.John to help us on our way
Peace
Hope
Dear God, the only God in the universe, our protector, saviour and Almighty. We pray to you to help us in our endevours to correct the wrongs in our earthly religions, to bring together all those that believe in you and you alone, help those that have lost their way and have lost sight of the message you gave Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and others. Open the eyes and minds of those who put others beside you , help us to show them the truth and bring understanding between all the religions of this world. All our God-alone brothers and sisters in all religions ask this as one voice.
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Dear God, the only God in the universe, our protector, saviour and Almighty. We pray to you to help us in our endevours to correct the wrongs in our earthly religions, to bring together all those that believe in you and you alone, help those that have lost their way and have lost sight of the message you gave Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and others. Open the eyes and minds of those who put others beside you , help us to show them the truth and bring understanding between all the religions of this world. All our God-alone brothers and sisters in all religions ask this as one voice.
Amen! yay
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Amen! yay
Hey, wasn't "amen" the name of an ancient Egyptian god? confused
By the way, good prayer, John... bravo
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Dear God, the only God in the universe, our protector, saviour and Almighty. We pray to you to help us in our endevours to correct the wrongs in our earthly religions, to bring together all those that believe in you and you alone, help those that have lost their way and have lost sight of the message you gave Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and others. Open the eyes and minds of those who put others beside you , help us to show them the truth and bring understanding between all the religions of this world. All our God-alone brothers and sisters in all religions ask this as one voice.
Peace Rev.John
Thank you for that prayer, I knew you be best to deliver it. May God bless you and hear our prayers to lead us in the right path.
Peace
Hope
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Peace,
These are some Turkish atheist forums with thousands of members for example
Large numbers of Turks do in fact embrace secular ideologies as opposed to Islamic ones, largely due to the strong nationalistic ideologies prevalent in Turkey.
Many Iranians seem to leave Islam, both in Iran as well as abroad. Over the years, I have personally heard hundreds of Iranians say that they are atheists.
Large numbers of Iranians also end their association with Islam due to their disillusionment with the Islamic Revolution.
Furthermore, elites in most countries around the world tend to abandon religion in general for various reasons as well, unless that religion is completely tied into the culture, in which case lip service is merely paid to the religion.
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Hey, wasn't "amen" the name of an ancient Egyptian god? confused
Then why do people say that in prayer?
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Hey, wasn't "amen" the name of an ancient Egyptian god? confused
It may have been. As regards the etymology, Amen is a derivative from the Hebrew verb aman "to strengthen" or "Confirm". Amen Ra, Amun Rhah, Amin rhae, etc etc.. its all just phonetics. The catholics insist that todays meaning is "may it be so, or let it be so", but the catholic encyclopedias will willingly tell you that it originates in Egypt
"Finally, we may note that the word Amen occurs not infrequently in early Christian inscriptions, and that it was often introduced into anathemas and gnostic spells. Moreover, as the Greek letters which form Amen according to their numerical values total 99 (alpha=1, mu=40, epsilon=8, nu=50), this number often appears in inscriptions, especially of Egyptian origin, and a sort of magical efficacy seems to have been attributed to its symbol. It should also be mentioned that the word Amen is still employed in the ritual both of Jews and Mohammedans."
http//www.newadvent.org/cathen/01407b.htmFor the sect hunters, you will note that the number 99 is not exactly unfamiliar in Islam, nor is 33, that is; if you ask someone from the sunni branch of things.
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Peace
When we use the word amen, what do we really mean? Is it "to strengthen" or "Confirm" or "may it be so, or let it be so". In my opinion we are basically saying it to mean any of these. If we say it because we are trying to pray to an Egyptian God then it is for wrong reasons and not good. So here the intension is what is important otherwise we should not name the days of the week Monday, Tuesday etc and the months January etc as they also have origions to names of ancient gods. http//www.crowl.org/Lawrence/time/days.html http//www.crowl.org/Lawrence/time/months.html
You may argue we use the days and months names in our daily lives and not in prayers. The fact is we use them, so when I say April do I mean Greek goddess of love and beauty? No I am specifying a time/month of the year. I can understand why people may not use the word but I say its all down to intension and what we really intepret the word to mean when we say it. Don't forget all languages are invented so no one can have a copy right to them ;DPeace
Hope
PS. Do all muslims understand what they are saying in their prayers (namaz/salaat)?
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Peace
When we use the word amen, what do we really mean? Is it "to strengthen" or "Confirm" or "may it be so, or let it be so". In my opinion we are basically saying it to mean any of these. If we say it because we are trying to pray to an Egyptian God then it is for wrong reasons and not good.
Languages change. If todays use dictates a "may it be so, i confirm my faith" kind of thing, then that is what it is. Because if we start to clamp down on this left over from much older times, perhaps we should change the names of the days in the week as well. Moon day? Freya's days? Thor's day? etc....doesn't sound islamic to me. How about the months? We use all kinds of strange words that used to mean one thing, but changed. In the grimoire department we find holocaust that went from meaning a "massive burnt offering to a deity" to mean the nazi extermination of jews ...unless of course that nothing changed, in which case that whole thing takes on a wholly new unpleasant glow...languages change, so I believe it is important to look at what people do rather than what they say. Especially in regard to their religions. Eating flesh, drinking blood. You would think that this came straight out of voodoun but you know well where those words are said and that it is entirely metaphorical.
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The Freemasons still use the old English term "So mote it be" meaning "so may it be", giving an ending to the prayer by basically saying "let's hope it happens" the same as "Amen"
Who's a freemason?