Islam spreading fast?
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Know thy tree by it's fruits, right? )
I learnt a new idiom today. yay
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Peace Hope4,
When we use the word amen, what do we really mean? Is it "to strengthen" or "Confirm" or "may it be so, or let it be so". In my opinion we are basically saying it to mean any of these. If we say it because we are trying to pray to an Egyptian God then it is for wrong reasons and not good. So here the intension is what is important otherwise we should not name the days of the week Monday, Tuesday etc and the months January etc as they also have origions to names of ancient gods.
I completely disagree, and these are opposing concepts. The word "amen" is not a Hebrew word, it was never instructed to the Jews by Moses or the prophets, and the word "ameen" (commonly used in Islaamic prayers) never occurs in the Qur'aan, not even once. Therefore, regardless of the way people "intend" to use it, it's still an innovation, and it's not Islaamic, not Qur'aanic, and not even monotheistic. In the case of prayers, the wording is very important, regardless of your personal intention, especially when it comes to citing false references or acknowledging false gods in your service to God alone. Saying "amen" (or "ameen" is just as bad as saying, "...in Jesus' name" at the end of your prayers. There's literally no difference between the two, and both can be viewed as forms of idolatry, regardless of the intention of the reciter...
Days of the week and months of the year are traditional and cultural factors, while saying "amen" after a prayer is a religious matter. Over the years, its transformed from an innovation to a 'general custom' to a 'divine law'. In fact, nowadays, most Christians, and Muslims too, will consider you as being in grave error if you don't say "amen" (or "ameen" at the end of your prayer, especially in a congregational atmosphere. Some may accuse you of blasphemy, and others will declare that your prayer is incomplete and unacceptable to God, simply because you didn't say something that He never told you to say in the first place.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace,
I think the consensus here is that the former "Islamic Empires" were merely Empires like any other empire in history with the same expansionist, brutal, and greedy tendencies as any other.
The only difference being that the rulers happened to identify as Muslims. And as we all know, identifying as a Muslim does not imply that you will act like a Muslim.
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Peace Sarat,
I think the consensus here is that the former "Islamic Empires" were merely Empires like any other empire in history with the same expansionist, brutal, and greedy tendencies as any other.
The only difference being that the rulers happened to identify as Muslims. And as we all know, identifying as a Muslim does not imply that you will act like a Muslim.
I guess I could be wrong, but did you mean to put that in this thread?
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599241.0
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Peace Hope4,
I completely disagree, and these are opposing concepts. The word "amen" is not a Hebrew word, it was never instructed to the Jews by Moses or the prophets, and the word "ameen" (commonly used in Islaamic prayers) never occurs in the Qur'aan, not even once. Therefore, regardless of the way people "intend" to use it, it's still an innovation, and it's not Islaamic, not Qur'aanic, and not even monotheistic. In the case of prayers, the wording is very important, regardless of your personal intention, especially when it comes to citing false references or acknowledging false gods in your service to God alone. Saying "amen" (or "ameen" is just as bad as saying, "...in Jesus' name" at the end of your prayers. There's literally no difference between the two, and both can be viewed as forms of idolatry, regardless of the intention of the reciter...
Days of the week and months of the year are traditional and cultural factors, while saying "amen" after a prayer is a religious matter. Over the years, its transformed from an innovation to a 'general custom' to a 'divine law'. In fact, nowadays, most Christians, and Muslims too, will consider you as being in grave error if you don't say "amen" (or "ameen" at the end of your prayer, especially in a congregational atmosphere. Some may accuse you of blasphemy, and others will declare that your prayer is incomplete and unacceptable to God, simply because you didn't say something that He never told you to say in the first place.
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace Ahmad Bilal
I stand corrected and what you say makes sense. Just need to reprogramme myself as old habits die hard.
Peace
Hope
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Peace Hope4,
I completely disagree, and these are opposing concepts. The word "amen" is not a Hebrew word, it was never instructed to the Jews by Moses or the prophets, and the word "ameen" (commonly used in Islaamic prayers) never occurs in the Qur'aan, not even once. Therefore, regardless of the way people "intend" to use it, it's still an innovation, and it's not Islaamic, not Qur'aanic, and not even monotheistic. In the case of prayers, the wording is very important, regardless of your personal intention, especially when it comes to citing false references or acknowledging false gods in your service to God alone. Saying "amen" (or "ameen" is just as bad as saying, "...in Jesus' name" at the end of your prayers. There's literally no difference between the two, and both can be viewed as forms of idolatry, regardless of the intention of the reciter...
Days of the week and months of the year are traditional and cultural factors, while saying "amen" after a prayer is a religious matter. Over the years, its transformed from an innovation to a 'general custom' to a 'divine law'. In fact, nowadays, most Christians, and Muslims too, will consider you as being in grave error if you don't say "amen" (or "ameen" at the end of your prayer, especially in a congregational atmosphere. Some may accuse you of blasphemy, and others will declare that your prayer is incomplete and unacceptable to God, simply because you didn't say something that He never told you to say in the first place.
Peace,
Ahmad
The word Amen is also said at the end of Jewish prayers.
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The word Amen is also said at the end of Jewish prayers.
Some Jewish groups say "amen" (or "amein" at the ends of their prayer services, but many don't. Jewish scholars and rabbis have long been considering that the practice of saying "amen" may have originated when the ancient Israelites were in Egypt, especially considering the facts that (1) "Amen" was the name of an Egyptian god and (2) "amen" is not a Hebrew word. Some groups, especially among many collective Reform and Restructionalist Jews, have stopped saying "amen" altogether, viewing it as a blasphemous word to say in the prayers (i.e. based on the Torah and Talmud decrees that Jews are forbidden from speaking the names of false gods). It all depends on what Jews you're talking about...
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Ahmed Bilal. Be careful not to fall into the phonetics claptrap. Just because words sound the same does not mean they are the same or come from eachother. I have followed the Amen = Amum rha argument for some time, and I am not convinced at all. Where is the evidence other than 1.they sound similar 2.hebrews may or may not have been in Egypt? If a word has been with a people, supposedly for the better part of 2000 years, then you can safely say that it is now their word or part of their 'original' language. If we were to track down our words starting point we would not have a language, the dutch would not have one and neither would several other european languages as all are but a hodgepodge of words taken from each other.
From whackypedia
Amen, meaning so be it, is of Hebrew origin. The word was imported into the Greek of the early Church from the Jewish synagogue. From Greek, amen entered the other Western languages. According to a standard dictionary etymology, amen passed from Greek into Late Latin, and thence into English.
The Hebrew word amen derives from the Hebrew verb aman, a primitive root. Grammarians frequently list aman under its three consonants (mn), which are identical to those of amen. This triliteral root (mn) means to be firm, confirmed, reliable, faithful, have faith, believe. Two English words that derive from this root are
a. amen, from Hebrew amen (=truly, certainly); b. Mammon, from Aramaic mamona, probably from Mishnaic Hebrew mam?n, probably from earlier *mamon (=? security, deposit”.
Both a and b derive from Hebrew aman (=to be firm).
The Talmud teaches homiletically that the word Amen is an acronym for (El melekh neeman, "God, trustworthy King", the phrase recited silently by an individual before reciting the Shma.
Popular among some theosophists and adherents of esoteric Christianity is the conjecture that amen is a derivative of the name of the Egyptian god Amun (which is sometimes also spelled Amen). Some adherents of Eastern religions believe that amen shares roots with the Sanskrit word, aum. There is no academic support for either of these views
Hebrew dictionary
G281
amen
am-ane'
Of Hebrew origin ; properly firm, that is, (figuratively) trustworthy; adverbially surely (often as interjection so be it) - amen, verily.H543
'amen
aw-mane'
From H539; sure; abstractly faithfulness; adverbially truly - Amen, so be it, truth -
Ahmed Bilal. Be careful not to fall into the phonetics claptrap. Just because words sound the same does not mean they are the same or come from eachother. I have followed the Amen = Amum rha argument for some time, and I am not convinced at all. Where is the evidence other than 1.they sound similar 2.hebrews may or may not have been in Egypt? If a word has been with a people, supposedly for the better part of 2000 years, then you can safely say that it is now their word or part of their 'original' language. If we were to track down our words starting point we would not have a language, the dutch would not have one and neither would several other european languages as all are but a hodgepodge of words taken from each other.
I hear what you're saying, but this doesn't prove the word is of Hebrew origin at all. In fact, many Jewish scholars are suggesting that it probably did get introduced to them in Egypt, among the vast worship of Egyptian gods. The ones who do believe that it is an original Hebrew word don't base it on "aman" (per se), which literally means to nourish and make strong; they base it on "emunah", similar to the Arabic word "imaan", meaning belief, trust, and faithfulness... Now, of course every word came from somewhere, and languages mimick eachother, sometimes producing similar words with different meanings. However, this still doesn't say anything about the origins of "amen". If it was originally used in reference to a pagan god, does that mean it's acceptable to use it now, just because the meaning was altered over time to refer to something not as bad? Does that mean the word should be mandatorily used in all prayers, and failure to use this word should result in punishment or chastisement?