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  4. THE QURAN CONFIRMS: TODAY'S BIBLE IS UNCHANGED

THE QURAN CONFIRMS: TODAY'S BIBLE IS UNCHANGED

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  • A Offline
    A Offline
    Ahmad_Bilal
    wrote on last edited by
    #30

    It is indisputable that The Quran confirms The Virgin Birth of Jesus.

    Is this a typo, or did you mean to say this? How does the Qur'aan "undisputably" confirm the virgin births? If anything, that thread clearly proves, from the Qur'aan, that the virgin birth concept is a myth, not a reality.

    Moreover, Please quote from the Bible where it Talks about divinity of Jesus, Trinitarian godhead, atonement for sins.

    I don't think they're translation errors, bro. Some of them may be, but others clearly mention modern Christian ideologies, which are refuted by the Qur'aan. For example
    (1) Jesus' death and atonement for mankind's sins (1 Corinthians 153, 4)
    (2) Jesus' divinity and personal authority (John 11-4; Philippians 26, 7)
    (3) Trinitarian Godhead (1 John 57)

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    • R Offline
      R Offline
      Rev_John
      wrote on last edited by
      #31

      Peace Rev.John

      You should like it, as it confirms a lot of what you say

      Peace

      Hope

      Yes it does, I will be using some of it on Sunday.

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      • H Offline
        H Offline
        hope4
        wrote on last edited by
        #32

        Yes it does, I will be using some of it on Sunday.

        OMG I hope they don't get aggressive, some of my christian friends were very hostile when I pointed it out to them. Did you read the one on swine? LEVITICUS 118 and MARK 513

        Peace

        Hope

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        • R Offline
          R Offline
          Rev_John
          wrote on last edited by
          #33

          OMG I hope they don't get aggressive, some of my christian friends were very hostile when I pointed it out to them. Did you read the one on swine? LEVITICUS 118 and MARK 513

          Peace

          Hope

          No, they will be fine with it, in fact I think most will laugh.

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          • H Offline
            H Offline
            hope4
            wrote on last edited by
            #34

            No, they will be fine with it, in fact I think most will laugh.

            What a shame I would have liked to be there.

            Peace

            Hope

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            • R Offline
              R Offline
              Rev_John
              wrote on last edited by
              #35

              What a shame I would have liked to be there.

              Peace

              Hope

              You will always be welcome

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              • H Offline
                H Offline
                hope4
                wrote on last edited by
                #36

                You will always be welcome

                Peace Rev.John

                Thank you for your kind offer. Its good to know people like you are still around. May God bless you. peace

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                • R Offline
                  R Offline
                  Rev_John
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #37

                  Peace Rev.John

                  Thank you for your kind offer. Its good to know people like you are still around. May God bless you. peace

                  Thank you, and you too.

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                  • B Offline
                    B Offline
                    belH
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #38

                    (1) Jesus' death and atonement for mankind's sins (1 Corinthians 153, 4)
                    (2) Jesus' divinity and personal authority (John 11-4; Philippians 26, 7)
                    (3) Trinitarian Godhead (1 John 57)

                    Peace,
                    I do not see these mentioned Books Here

                    http//www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm

                    Can these Books be Man made Books, as the Hadith and the Talmud?

                    Peace

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                    • A Offline
                      A Offline
                      Ahmad_Bilal
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #39

                      Peace Belal,

                      I do not see these mentioned Books Here

                      http//www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm

                      Can these Books be Man made Books, as the Hadith and the Talmud?

                      Yes, those books can definately be, and most likely are, manmade books. That's what the author of the article you mentioned regarded as the Injiyl... But yes, the website you're considering is only referencing the Jewish Tanakh ("old testament&quot, which were originally written in Hebrew. The "new testament" books of the Bible were mostly written in Greek (some may have possibly been written in Aramaic, but it's debatable). Therefore, you probably wouldn't find the "new testament" books on that website...

                      Peace,

                      Ahmad

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                      • B Offline
                        B Offline
                        belH
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #40

                        Peace Belal,

                        Yes, those books can definately be, and most likely are, manmade books. That's what the author of the article you mentioned regarded as the Injiyl... But yes, the website you're considering is only referencing the Jewish Tanakh ("old testament&quot, which were originally written in Hebrew. The "new testament" books of the Bible were mostly written in Greek (some may have possibly been written in Aramaic, but it's debatable). Therefore, you probably wouldn't find the "new testament" books on that website...

                        Peace,

                        Ahmad

                        Peace Ahamed,

                        When I looked at the Aramic Version of John, I can see where they mistranslated 1-13

                        http//www.aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/peshitta_interlinear.htm

                        Let me know if you think there are possible mistranslation.

                        Here what I believe it should be

                        13 who are born, not of blood, nor of the pleasure of the flesh, nor of the pleasure of man, but of God (a Creation of God).

                        If you compare the different Translations, you will note where they deffer.

                        (More translation can be found here http//www.aramaicpeshitta.com/ Younan Bible, Lamsa Bible, Murdock Bible, Etheridge Bible, Khabouris Codex)

                        Peace

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                        • A Offline
                          A Offline
                          Ahmad_Bilal
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #41

                          I see what you're getting at, but it's an irrelevant argument. It doesn't really matter whether or not the Biblical gospels or the "new testament" has been preserved over the years, since none of it came from God; none of it was divinely inspired to the prophets, and none of it was sent down to the people. Therefore, it being preserved is about as relevant as a 6th century fiction novel being preserved - it is of no importance. Although it may contain a few quasi-authentic words of Jesus, it can hardly be called the Injiyl...

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                          • S Offline
                            S Offline
                            san
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #42

                            Salaam,

                            Actually, studying 22-4, as Alquran is the guide for Almuttaqiyn, and that Almuttaqiyn, among their characters/actions

                            And who believe in what has been revealed to you, and what was revealed before you.

                            This is a very serious matter.

                            Are we only to believe that 'what was revealed before us' somehow existed?

                            or are we to believe 'what was revealed before us' in the same way we believe in 'what has been revealed to us' (Alqur'aan)?

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                            • B Offline
                              B Offline
                              belH
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #43

                              Salaam,

                              Actually, studying 22-4, as Alquran is the guide for Almuttaqiyn, and that Almuttaqiyn, among their characters/actions

                              And who believe in what has been revealed to you, and what was revealed before you.

                              This is a very serious matter.

                              Are we only to believe that 'what was revealed before us' somehow existed?

                              or are we to believe 'what was revealed before us' in the same way we believe in 'what has been revealed to us' (Alqur'aan)?

                              Peace,
                              The Words in 2-2 to 2-5 are as follow
                              Believing In what was revealed to You (Mohamed PBUH)
                              Believing in what were revealed Before you

                              Can you note from the above, when comparing WORD BY WORD, that we have to treat the Books in an equivalent way; after all, These Books are the Words of our Creator...How can we ignore some and believe in some...are we hypocrites?

                              Peace

                              Peace

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                              • S Offline
                                S Offline
                                san
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #44

                                Peace,
                                The Words in 2-2 to 2-5 are as follow
                                Believing In what was revealed to You (Mohamed PBUH)
                                Believing in what were revealed Before you

                                Can you note from the above, when comparing WORD BY WORD, that we have to treat the Books in an equivalent way; after all, These Books are the Words of our Creator...How can we ignore some and believe in some...are we hypocrites?

                                Peace

                                Peace

                                Thank you, yes yes yes that's exactly what i mean.

                                Next, if we are to treat the Books in an equivalent way, then i assume ALLAH made for us that all the previous Scriptures are just as intact as the Scripture that is revealead to us, mankind after the last Prophet (i.e. Alqur'aan).

                                In other way, (assuming again) when people are ready to accept all Scriptures as the Guide for them, all the intact Scriptures will be accessible to them. (ALLAH will not change the condition of a people until they change themselves)

                                I know i don't have any evidence, other than this

                                5674 So exalt the name of your Lord, the Most Great.
                                5675 Then I swear by the setting of the stars,
                                5676 And indeed, it is an oath - if you could know - great.
                                5677 Indeed, it is a Reading most-honorable
                                5678 In a Book well-protected/well-guarded/kept hidden/nestled
                                5679 None touch it except the purified
                                5680 a revelation from the Lord of the worlds.

                                5678

                                "kitaAbun maknuwn"... is this supposed to be in the Heaven or is this supposed to be in this world, in/on Earth?

                                What use will be for mankind, if the Book is well-protected/well-guarded/kept hidden/nestled in the Heaven, instead of in/on Earth?

                                From 5679, we can safely assume that only those who were already purified/are keep purifying themselves will be able to touch it.

                                Last Do 5677-78 mean that this Alqur'aanun kariym is part of kitaAbun maknuwn?

                                if so, wouldn't that mean that all revelation ultimately form one single Book (kitaabun) which is maknuwn?

                                Peace

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                                • S Offline
                                  S Offline
                                  san
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #45

                                  ...continuing the previous post,

                                  692 And this is a kitaAb which We have sent down, blessed and confirming that bayna yadayhi, so you may warn the Mother of Cities and those around it. Those who believe in the Hereafter believe in it, and they are maintaining their SalaAt.

                                  this = Alqur'aan ; bayna yadayhi = AlInjiyl, AltawraAt, Alzabuwr ? Or what has been revealed from Alqur'aan itself?

                                  this = KitaAb ; bayna yadayhi = AlInjiyl, AltawraAt, Alzabuwr ? Or what has been revealed from AlkitaAb itself?

                                  ???

                                  bayna = "between/among"
                                  yadayhi = "before it/him"

                                  Concordance of "bayna yadahi" not related to kitaAb/Scripture

                                  • where bayna yadayhi seems to indicate "past" 4621

                                  • where bayna yadayhi seems to indicate "present" instead of "past" 266 , 1311 , 3412 , 727 , 3412

                                  For now, instead of "what was before it", let's see bayna yadayhi as
                                  "between/among (what's already present) before it/in front of it" --

                                  how do you read these verses?

                                  297 Say, "Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel - it is he who has brought Alqur'aan down upon your heart, with permission of Allah , confirming which bayna yadayhi and as guidance and good tidings for the believers."

                                  33 He has sent down upon you, AlkitaAb in truth, confirming which bayna yadayhi. And He revealed AltawraAt and AlInjiyl.

                                  546 And We sent, following in their footsteps, `Iysa son of Maryam, confirming which bayna yadayhi from AltawraAt; and We gave him AlInjiyl, in which was guidance and light and confirming which bayna yadayhi from AltawraAt as guidance and instruction for the righteous.

                                  548 And We have sent down to you AlkitaAb with truth, confirming bayna yadayhi from AlkitaAb and muhayminaAn over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging away from the truth that has come to you. To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way. If Allah willed, He would have made you one nation, but to test you in what He has given you; so strive as in a race in good deeds. The return of you is to Allah; then He will inform you about that in which you used to differ.

                                  1037 And it was not for this Alqur'aan to be produced by other than Allah, but a confirmation of what bayna yadayhi and a detailed explanation of AlkitaAb, about which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.

                                  12111 There was certainly in their stories a lesson for those of understanding. Never was Alqur'aan a narration invented, but a confirmation of that bayna yadayhi and a detailed explanation of all things and guidance and mercy for a people who believe.

                                  3431 And those who kafaruw say, "We will never believe in this Alqur'aan nor with that bayna yadayhi." But if you could see when the wrongdoers are made to stand before their Lord, refuting each other's words -- Those who were oppressed will say to those who were arrogant, "If not for you, we would have been believers."

                                  3531 And that which We have revealed to you, from AlkitaAb it is the truth, confirming what bayna yadayhi. Indeed, Allah, of His servants, is Acquainted and Seeing.

                                  4630 They said, "O our people, indeed we have heard kitaAbaAn revealed after Moses confirming what bayna yadayhi which guides to the truth and to a straight path.

                                  4140 Indeed, those who inject deviation into Our AyaAtinaA are not concealed from Us. So, is he who is cast into the Fire better or he who comes secure on the Day of Resurrection? Do whatever you will; indeed, He is Seeing of what you do.

                                  4141 Indeed, those who disbelieve in the message after it has come to them -- And indeed, it is a kitaAbun `aziyz.

                                  4142 Falsehood cannot approach it from bayna yadayhi or from khalfihi; a revelation from Hakiymin Hamiyd.

                                  4143 Nothing is said to you, except what was already said to the messengers before you. Indeed, your Lord is a possessor of forgiveness and a possessor of painful penalty.

                                  The questions Read 1037 again -->

                                  • How do we know that Alqur'aan confirm what "bayna yadayhi" if we don't have what "bayna yadayhi" intact?

                                  • How do we know that Alqur'aan details explanation of AlkitaAb if we don't have the whole AlkitaAb intact?

                                  Peace

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                                  • H Offline
                                    H Offline
                                    herbman
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #46

                                    Salam, Peace to all,

                                    Peace

                                    This might help 101 contradictions in the Bible

                                    http//www.ipci.co.za/frameset.asp

                                    Peace

                                    Hope

                                    A quick look at this shows that it is not fair comparison cause some of the contradictions are made from OT against NT. I mean if you compare the Reading with the OT, or NT, or both surely we will find some contradictions.
                                    The right thing should be to find contradictions within OT, within NT and of course within the Reading.

                                    Regarding the OT (pentatheuc).

                                    In the article we learn that the diactrical signs were added centuries after the oldest original copy of the OT (same as the Reading btw).
                                    This is a very important point to take into account
                                    1- hebrew is a "dead" language and lexical is very poor in comparison to arabic
                                    2- some Rabins were distorting the meaning of some words in OT see 378
                                    3- a translation is and will never replace the original.

                                    If you mix all the 3 points together, you get the current OT, now with this try to get the clear message, that is why

                                    2776
                                    "Verily this Qur'an doth explain to the Children of Israel most of the matters in which they disagree"

                                    2777
                                    "And it certainly is a Guide and Mercy to those who believe."

                                    Conclusion

                                    Yes OT is a book from God, yes it is preserved, NO people did not succeed in understanding it.

                                    God bless

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                                    • R Offline
                                      R Offline
                                      Rami
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #47

                                      Do you mean if the Torah is read properly it will be similar to the Quran??

                                      Far-fetched but possible. I thought of that before but how??

                                      Peace.

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                                      • A Offline
                                        A Offline
                                        abdalquran
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #48

                                        Herbman, how do you know Quranic word 'taurat' refers to the 'Torah'?

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                                        • H Offline
                                          H Offline
                                          herbman
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #49

                                          Herbman, how do you know Quranic word 'taurat' refers to the 'Torah'?

                                          Salam,

                                          because of 543, 544, 393 and many other.

                                          How would you translate "taurat" by?

                                          Let's call it The Law, could be then only the 10 commands given to Moses by God swt but then it would contradict 4829, 616

                                          Taurat is a Book, this is one of the previous Book, the prophete knew about it, so we should have the same book nowaday cause the "Taurat" is the same since 300 or 200 BC.

                                          regards

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