12:106 Mushrik believers
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This is the meaning in Arabic. Islam is whole, complete, full. Shirk is division or partnereship. You cannot be whole if you are divided!
Ok, fair enough. Yes, I see that Ibrahim was 'muslim haneefa wa maa kanaa min al-mushrikoon'. That's muslim haneefa though. Muslim to me still shows that there may be shirk there.
The nika7 ayah that you brought.
Does this ayah show 'pure' iman or 'distorted' iman?
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Salam Jack,
Do you know how many believers/mukmin during the time of Prophet Moses ?
Only two people.
523 Two men from among those who were fearing, upon whom God had bestowed favor, said Enter upon them through the gate, if you enter it then you will be the victors; and put your trust in God if you are believers.
Do u know how many believers/mukmin during the time of Prophet Luth ?
Only one family....minus Luth's wife.
These facts are when are talking about mukmin, which certainly higher degree than muslim, because mukmin obey Allah and the messenger. Don't get me wrong, when I said obey Allah and obey messenger does not mean obey messenger means obey hadith created by Bukhari and co.
When we are talking about muslim and polytheist
muslim >< polytheists
definition of muslim
4133 And who is better in saying than he who invites to God, and does good works, and says I am one of those who have submitted.
polytheist may have doing a lot of good deeds in this world, they also believe in Allah but they are not realize that they are setup partners with Allah.
Do they realize that setting up partners with Allah means also obey man-made laws such found in hadith compiled/created by Bukhari and co ?
Please apply the concept of negation thinking to these verses below
619 Say "Which is the greatest testimony?" Say "God is witness between me and you, and He has inspired to me this Reading that I may warn you with it and whoever it reaches, that you are bearing witness that with God are other gods!" Say "I do not bear witness!" Say "He is only One god, and I am innocent of what you have set up!"
Setting up partners with Allah means creating secondary source of law beside al-Qur'an
6106 Follow what is inspired to you from your Lord; there is no god except He, and turn away from the polytheists.
Polytheist means someone who's not following what was inspired from Allah (Zabur, Taurat, Injil and al-Qur'an)
721-2 Say "It has been inspired to me that a group of Jinn were listening." They said "We have heard a magnificent Reading!" "It guides to what is correct, so we believed in it, and we will not set up anyone with our Lord.
Again, it confirms in al-Qur'an, that creating man-made laws other than al-Qur'an to uphold, obey and follow is another act of polytheism
Peace,
I think we have similar viewhttp//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16769.30
As I have noted from my experience with different Groups (including Free.minds Members), Moslems or Believers can fall easy in Shirk, especially when arguing about Quranic Issue.
May God help us to not fall in such a Great Sin.
Peace
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However, the context has been globalised with the inclusion of The Reader in 12/102, (nuhihi ilaika) and this very same reader is spoken to in 12/103 (haradhTA). That to me, makes the condition universal.
I don't understand what you're getting at with 12/107-108 but I'm sure it's something 'tasty'. Care to explain further?
Good point with 12102.
Are they secure against the coming of a covering of retribution from God, or that the Hour would come to them suddenly while they do not perceive?
"iman" leads to security from (min) God's aazab/torment. This shows secure as the best meaning for iman. So, when the hour comes upon us we won't be experiencing torment.
12108 - We are told to say we are not min/FROM al-mushrikeen. I interpret this as we could have shrik in us, but this doesn't make us mushrikeen. ...It's only when we try to allow shrik to take us over (which leads to the God's energy within us 'dying' that we fall into this trap. Ibrahim was free from shrik. This is why he's a model for us.
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Abdalquran,
I already answered that in the earlier posts.
Apologies yes, you wrote 'As for not marrying a mushrik until they become a mumin, well, there are two types of iman, one is pure and another is distorted which is shirk. But in Islam, there is only one type, pure.. The mushriks would still have iman in God, but what kind of iman!
It doesn't say in 2/221 that these mumins are 'in islam'. So I will rephrase my question what makes you think that 2/221 is about pure iman?
But why did you ignore my question about your screen name?
Because it's not up for discussion.
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Good point with 12102.
Are they secure against the coming of a covering of retribution from God, or that the Hour would come to them suddenly while they do not perceive?
"iman" leads to security from (min) God's aazab/torment. This shows secure as the best meaning for iman. So, when the hour comes upon us we won't be experiencing torment.
12108 - We are told to say we are not min/FROM al-mushrikeen. I interpret this as we could have shrik in us, but this doesn't make us mushrikeen. ...It's only when we try to allow shrik to take us over (which leads to the God's energy within us 'dying' that we fall into this trap. Ibrahim was free from shrik. This is why he's a model for us.
Ok, I see what you mean there. How would you translate ?imaan bi Allah? though?
I think your conclusion is right with iman as security from torment. However mumineen are not always given please. In chapter 49, mumineen fight against one anoher, for example. What are your thoughts on this? -
Apologies yes, you wrote 'As for not marrying a mushrik until they become a mumin, well, there are two types of iman, one is pure and another is distorted which is shirk. But in Islam, there is only one type, pure.. The mushriks would still have iman in God, but what kind of iman!
It doesn't say in 2/221 that these mumins are 'in islam'. So I will rephrase my question what makes you think that 2/221 is about pure iman?
Again the answer is very clear.
Abdalquran,
But why did you ignore my question about your screen name?
Because it's not up for discussion.
Certainly not among those who take partners with Allah.
Take care!
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How would you translate ?imaan bi Allah? though?
the way you understand or translate
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the way you understand or translate
My focus was on the word 'iman' , not 'bi'.
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Again the answer is very clear.
Apologies but its not clear to me. There simply isn't anythng I can see to allude to 'pure' or 'distorted' iman in 2/221. You're seeing something I cannot so will you help me understand by explaining clearly?