Salat is physical (and mental)
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Peace,
I agree with you, that is why I think there is only one position for salat (standing position) as per 238 and 339, for SAJADA (prostration) I think it could be mental and also physical.
Peace
Peace
Nowadays there is "mental state mania" prevailing about Quran. Every thing is figurative and mental state.
Qibla = mental state
Masjid = Mental state
Sajadah = mental state
Rukooh = mental state
Salaat = mental state.Strangely "salaat mental state " is very interesting
It is timed not all the timeBefore adopting this state you have to wash your hands ,face and feet.
This mental state is many types ,note the plural form of salaat.
Probably upholders of this mental state mania are suffering from "some mental state".
Regards
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Ok, assuming your interpretations of 5/6, 4/103 are correct. Why can't we establish these mental states at given times and wash ourselves before establishing these states?
Why does it HAVE to be a ritual? Maybe because some of us are stuck on'em and can't let go?
Do you believe Muhammad bargained with God to drop the number of salat from 50 to 5?
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Peace
Nowadays there is "mental state mania" prevailing about Quran. Every thing is figurative and mental state.
Qibla = mental state
Masjid = Mental state
Sajadah = mental state
Rukooh = mental state
Salaat = mental state.Regards
salaam brother
how do you define a mental state?
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Is submission to Allah a whole time job or Part time job ??
Regards
everything in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Allah
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat3_files/3_83.gif
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Nowadays there is "mental state mania" prevailing about Quran. Every thing is figurative and mental state.
Qibla = mental state
Masjid = Mental state
Sajadah = mental state
Rukooh = mental state
Salaat = mental state.Strangely "salaat mental state " is very interesting
It is timed not all the timeBefore adopting this state you have to wash your hands ,face and feet.
This mental state is many types ,note the plural form of salaat.
Probably upholders of this mental state mania are suffering from "some mental state".
laugh As amusing as this post is (in my opinion), I agree with QS on this. Everybody seems to want to make salaat "mental", "spiritual", "figurative", or some other type of non-physical activity. Based on the Qur'aan, I don't see how it can't be physical; certain parts of the scripture clearly refer to the people as standing, bowing, prostrating, reciting certain words, and conducting certain rites at certain times. How can this all be mental, especially considering the fact that most people agree that "wudhu" is a physical act?
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laugh As amusing as this post is (in my opinion), I agree with QS on this. Everybody seems to want to make salaat "mental", "spiritual", "figurative", or some other type of non-physical activity. Based on the Qur'aan, I don't see how it can't be physical; certain parts of the scripture clearly refer to the people as standing, bowing, prostrating, reciting certain words, and conducting certain rites at certain times. How can this all be mental, especially considering the fact that most people agree that "wudhu" is a physical act?
I dont agree that all part of salat is mental but i know that ppls who do mental salat mekes wudhu yeah
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The describing of "salat" as physical or mental is nonsensical use of terminology, and this has been discussed before, e.g.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598162.msg199326#msg199326
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597865.msg193643#msg193643Interestingly, I find the people who use such terminology tend to have little idea about what "salat" is according to AQ. Just my own observation.
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Ok, assuming your interpretations of 5/6, 4/103 are correct. Why can't we establish these mental states at given times and wash ourselves before establishing these states?
Why does it HAVE to be a ritual? Maybe because some of us are stuck on'em and can't let go?
Do you believe Muhammad bargained with God to drop the number of salat from 50 to 5?
what's your interpretation of 5/6. do you think it's completely mental? what gives you that impression?
is it because it's a ritual practiced by sunnis/shias (even though it's adapted) is that why you refuse to accept it as an act to do physically?
curious.. why is there a physical rebellion of it? possibly i have misunderstood you if so, do correct me.
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The describing of "salat" as physical or mental is nonsensical use of terminology, and this has been discussed before, e.g.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598162.msg199326#msg199326
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597865.msg193643#msg193643Interestingly, I find the people who use such terminology tend to have little idea about what "salat" is according to AQ. Just my own observation.
Salam, Peace,
so what is then salat according to AQ?
and what do you mean by mental?For me
How many salat?
given in 11114 and 1778 for the 2 salats, and one Nafila at night given in 1779.How?
part of salat is a rememberance/meditation ("dhikr" to God 2014 , this "dhikr" is achived by reading the Coran 5045.
Notice that meditation is "mental".
Other part of salat include paryers (du3a) 17110 cause God is the best hearer of du3a 338.
one position for salat (standing position) as per 238 and 339, prostration is not excluded depending on how you understand 4102.
notice that standing and reading AQ is "physical".How long?
Salat's duration is given in 1778 and 2187, this duration can vary depending on your geographical location, more you go to the north longer it is, in equator it is about 20 min.
For Nafila can be 1/3, 1/2, 2/3 of the night or what you can of it.This my comprehension at the present, and I would like to understand what do you mean by mental?
Peace
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O you who believe, do not observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) while intoxicated, so that you know what you are saying...
how can salat be only mental if the word saying is there^
The hypocrites think that they are deceiving GOD, but He is the One who leads them on. When they get up for the Contact Prayer (Salat), they get up lazily. That is because they only show off in front of the people, and rarely do they think of GOD.
the word/words get up indicates that salat is physical, (as well as mental)
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peace/salaam,
Salam, Peace,
so what is then salat according to AQ?
and what do you mean by mental?I always recommend people to study "salat" from AQ directly. A while ago, I created a checklist of sorts to run an understanding through, e.g. see here.
My view on what is "salat" can be read here.
By "mental" I was referring to how it seems to be used by some, e.g. no involvement of the body other than the mind.
prostration is not excluded depending on how you understand 4102.
See past discussion, e.g. here.
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Peace Wakas,
I think the thread is in reference to those who say that "salaat" involves no physical action whatsoever, alleging that it is "mental", as in entirely nonphysical. He wasn't talking about those who believe it to be physical AND mental...
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O you who believe, do not observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) while intoxicated, so that you know what you are saying...
how can salat be only mental if the word saying is there^
What makes u think it's only saying to OTHER PEOPLE? Maybe its self-talk.
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laugh As amusing as this post is (in my opinion), I agree with QS on this. Everybody seems to want to make salaat "mental", "spiritual", "figurative", or some other type of non-physical activity. Based on the Qur'aan, I don't see how it can't be physical; certain parts of the scripture clearly refer to the people as standing, bowing, prostrating, reciting certain words, and conducting certain rites at certain times. How can this all be mental, especially considering the fact that most people agree that "wudhu" is a physical act?
Well, I guess Bani israil entered the door while having their foreheads to the ground (2/58 - udkhulu al-baab sujjada).
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what's your interpretation of 5/6. do you think it's completely mental? what gives you that impression?
is it because it's a ritual practiced by sunnis/shias (even though it's adapted) is that why you refuse to accept it as an act to do physically?
curious.. why is there a physical rebellion of it? possibly i have misunderstood you if so, do correct me.Yes I do think it's mental because words like wujuh, ayd, arjul and ru'us could easily be 'expression, capacities, mobility and minds'. I wouldn't like to reject anything just because sunnis and shia do it. Rather, i went back to the text and built my understanding based on its world-view. Quran simply never bothers with any religious rituals and sticking in a ritual just makes it look very awkward, im sorry to say.
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Well, I guess Bani israil entered the door while having their foreheads to the ground (2/58 - udkhulu al-baab sujjada).
You're saying they DIDN'T have their foreheads to the ground? confused
So, you're saying that the Tauraat doesn't instruct the Jews to "prostrate" with their foreheads to the ground? As I've told you plenty of times, you need to do a comparative study on monotheistic religions. When it comes to certain things, it seems like you have no idea what you're talking about... The Rabbinical Jews were instructed to pray in their scripture, and their "du3a" is nearly identical to Islaamic prayer. Do you think this is coincidence?
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You're saying they DIDN'T have their foreheads to the ground? confused
So, you're saying that the Tauraat doesn't instruct the Jews to "prostrate" with their foreheads to the ground? As I've told you plenty of times, you need to do a comparative study on monotheistic religions. When it comes to certain things, it seems like you have no idea what you're talking about... The Rabbinical Jews were instructed to pray in their scripture, and their "du3a" is nearly identical to Islaamic prayer. Do you think this is coincidence?
Yeah, i find it difficult crawling with my forehead to the ground. It's very abrasive and my forehead turns red.
To understand Quran (and not for academic purposes) , why do I need to study ?other monotheistic religions? ? Did God tell me to do this? Where please or is it one of your ?too simple for Quran to mention so let me tell you instead? sort of deals?!
What tauraat? Who was given tauraat? All prophets were given AL-KITAAB BIL HAQQ (2/213) and al-kitab is mufassal/detailed (6/114). I don't use any other books to explain Quran, sorry.
And no, it?s no coincidence at all that the Jewish rituals (and laws) resemble sunnism but have nothing to do with the Quran?s outlook on things.
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Ok so words like wujuh, ayd, arju,l ru?us, can easily mean those other things right? though in this contexts it seems specific to mention physical aspects
Wipe your feet ila ka3bayn. Upto your ankles/heels..
And if you?re in junuban you need to be tahir.. Even goes on to say if you can?t find water...
There is no implication (to me) that this isn?t a physical ritual aspect of establishing salat.
Sometimes no rituals make things too flimsy.
So what?s AlQuran telling us here? Don?t bother about hygiene or specific acts? When you establish salat be mentally alert through (actually what is your interpretation)???
Though coming to think of it isn?t establishing a mental state intentionally in a specific rite a ritual act anyway?
