The door of ijtihad is closed?
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Peace
But it is not the job of "Tom ,Dick and Harry"?
Regardssalaam brother
is it your job then?
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What exactly do Muslims mean when they say 'the door of ijtihad is closed'. More precisely, what is it that we can't re-interpret anymore in Islam? Are they referring to Islamic jurisprudence?
It means
Dont' Argue With Me! Just follow my instruction and command! no matter how silly and ridiculous it is..Salam / Peace
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I know sunnis say this because they believe you need ijaza (authority) from a scholar. Because the knowledge has to be transmitted and there is none in our time with that ijaza. Apparently the ijaza all links back to past scholars back to prophet. This idea kinda reminds me of hadiths.
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Peace
The door of ijtihaad is not closed at all. But it is not the job of "Tom ,Dick and Harry"?
RegardsThe door of ijithad was claimed to be closed by the followers of Shafiee in order to consolidate the sunni monopoly over sharia. In practice however, it was never closed. A good article to read is Wael Hallaq's 'Was The Door of Ijtihad Closed?'.
To answer the question of whose job is it, we should ask this question How much agreement is there in Sharia? We are told that the ulema meticulously sifted through fake hadith and the sahih hadith now are near perfect. Great but how stable is sharia law? The first source of sharia is the Quran yet even in applying the Quran, the sunnis are divided. Ask the sunnis how many ayaat are abrogated? You will have many different answers (from 5 to 225 with some saying one ayah (the verse of the sword, 9/5 or 9/29, abrogating a HUNDRED other ayaat).
Today?s ijtihad exercises are complete time-wasters. We have ?ulema? still stuck in their Islamofascist paradigms who still think they?re connected to the Prophet. The Quran in their ijtihad is long gone.
S
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I know sunnis say this because they believe you need ijaza (authority) from a scholar. Because the knowledge has to be transmitted and there is none in our time with that ijaza. Apparently the ijaza all links back to past scholars back to prophet. This idea kinda reminds me of hadiths.
I call it the Islamic Knowledge Mafia.
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Yeh ijtihad is tailored today in the sunni world.. what i don?t get is why only 4 of the madhabs got recognised... is it because the others didn?t have as many followers, power issues, documentation i dunno.
I know a few sunnis who will say ?yeh there were many madhabs and they?re all right? but ok why aren?t they here now? And if they can accept the idea of many madhabs being right why must we be drawn to the 4 madhabs only.
there will still be people who study hadith and Quran without subscribing to a madhab but oddly they never seem to think to question the validity of hadith.
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Yeh ijtihad is tailored today in the sunni world.. what i don?t get is why only 4 of the madhabs got recognised... is it because the others didn?t have as many followers, power issues, documentation i dunno.
That's exactly right. I call it the Islamic Legal Economy. Market forces simply whittled the 500 or so madhabib to the 4 we have today.
I know a few sunnis who will say ?yeh there were many madhabs and they?re all right? but ok why aren?t they here now? And if they can accept the idea of many madhabs being right why must we be drawn to the 4 madhabs only.
When they tell you ?they?re all right?, please ask them ?does this mean that ?killing female apostates? is both right and wrong? (because they disagree on that).
there will still be people who study hadith and Quran without subscribing to a madhab but oddly they never seem to think to question the validity of hadith.
Salafees claim this but in reality, they have their own school. They resemble the hambali school.
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Salam Mr Noh,
I take your point that the word ijtihad isn't quranic but the act of legal reasoning (which is what ijtihad essentially is) is very Quranic indeed. We are commanded to judge by the book (4/105, 5/4 and so we need to reason to make the best decisions.
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When they tell you ?they?re all right?, please ask them ?does this mean that ?killing female apostates? is both right and wrong? (because they disagree on that).
Salafees claim this but in reality, they have their own school. They resemble the hambali school.Nah too complicated I'd be put on the spot for evidence. You gotta remember I'm female for 1 (deficient in intelligence, duh) and got no trustworthy knowledge status so i'd rather be like "if there is multiple acceptance of opinions why is everyone so rigid?" or "if 400 opinions could have been right, maybe i'm not going about it the wrong way"
really salafees resemble hambali.. i always would have thought they resembled shafi though there still are people who think madhabs arent necessary and Quran and sunnah (hadith) is enough. ah and also just listen/follow whoever is the majority to keep the unity
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Nah too complicated I'd be put on the spot for evidence. You gotta remember I'm female for 1 (deficient in intelligence, duh) and got no trustworthy knowledge status so i'd rather be like "if there is multiple acceptance of opinions why is everyone so rigid?" or "if 400 opinions could have been right, maybe i'm not going about it the wrong way"
really salafees resemble hambali.. i always would have thought they resembled shafi though there still are people who think madhabs arent necessary and Quran and sunnah (hadith) is enough. ah and also just listen/follow whoever is the majority to keep the unityLol, deficient in intelligence P
Hambalis believe the only 2 sources of ijtihad are Quran and sunnah, like salafees. The only differences is, their hadith science is frozen and subscribes to the standard collections whereas salafees are able to reclassify hadith to conform their own agenda.
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Salam Mr Noh,
I take your point that the word ijtihad isn't quranic but the act of legal reasoning (which is what ijtihad essentially is) is very Quranic indeed. We are commanded to judge by the book (4/105, 5/4 and so we need to reason to make the best decisions.
salam,
so ijtihad it is 'legal reasoning'.
but in the two verses you mentioned, in my understanding (if putting forth my understanding is alright) they are not regarding 'legal judgement', but rather in the forming of an understanding or opinion on people whom we are dealing with, so that we know what to do. but of course, this is based on my comprehension that alkitab is not the book, but rather the message, and God is still sending messages to us all as long as we ask for it. in this regard, i still need a message from God on how to understand the discussion thus far, and also on how to write this post. of course while writing this post, at the back of my mind is 68/36-39. in these verses i believe, legal judgments are best referred to God alone.
but you are entitled to your understanding, and i would never say your understanding is wrong. we should leave that to God alone, to be the judge.
and there is, if i am not mistaken 4/15, a verse regarding women who committed adultery. God did not determine the punishment for them, but asked them to meditate until a message is attained regarding their transgressions. i believe each case merits different recourse, thus the command for the woman to meditate.
so regarding ijtihad, i think it is irrelevant, not until one meditates and receives a message (alkitab) regarding the issue at hand.
but as i have mentioned, this is my personal comprehension. you are not suppose to agree, nor disagree - not until you meditate on it.
cheers!
mohammed noh
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Thank you Mr Noh,
I have no problem with the notion that 4/105 and 5/48 is about personal reasoning and I agree, the judgements are to God alone. However, in Quran there is also the notion of the leader of the community, the rasol and the ulil amr (4/59). These people are in charge of certain issues and so believers must follow them in their judgement (4/65). Perhaps in this capacity, there is legal ijtihad in Quran.
However, we can easily dispense with the word since the word itself isn't there.
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Sure ,It is not my Job to do ijtihaad.
Regards
salaam brother
why do you consider yourself ?
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Rasulhamsa, more importantly, why does he consider those guys to be baseer? Guys who turn Quranic injunctions upside down and abrogate Quran itself?
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Rasulhamsa, more importantly, why does he consider those guys to be baseer?
the main reason is, because he consider himself
btw that is the first time I saw him providing quranic proof of his claim.