Salat is physical (and mental)
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peace,
Yes I do think it's mental because words like wujuh, ayd, arjul and ru'us could easily be 'expression, capacities, mobility and minds'.
Can you provide a translation of the verses in question, staying true to the Arabic, so I/we can understand your view better?
Depending on the result, we can also determine to what degree cross-referencing is utilised or not.The reason I ask the above is primarily because I have not seen anyone explain it away successfully.
Quran simply never bothers with any religious rituals and sticking in a ritual just makes it look very awkward, im sorry to say.
"ritual" is a very ordinary word meaning "any customary observance or practice", e.g. brushing one's teeth daily.
"religious ritual" however is a specialised meaning.
Are they the same? -
peace,
"ritual" is a very ordinary word meaning "any customary observance or practice", e.g. brushing one's teeth daily."religious ritual" however is a specialised meaning.
Are they the same?Peace
A ritual is a set of actions, performed mainly for their symbolic value, which is prescribed by a religion or by the traditions of a community. The term usually excludes actions which are arbitrarily chosen by the performers, or dictated purely by logic, chance, necessity, etc..
Source http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual
Regards
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Abdalquran,
It seems like these debates just go on for pages and pages, all with circular arguments. In the end, the idea could be presented in different ways, and there are often several ways to interpret the same Qur'aanic passage. There's already plenty of information on this issue all over the internet, and even on this website. Feel free to study these. You can believe whatever you want to believe. Allah is the Judge...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Abdalquran,
and there are often several ways to interpret the same Qur'aanic passage.
Peace,Ahmad
If some word or sentence or passage can be interpreted MANY ways ,it is called Ambiguous i.e not definite.
Is the Quran really ambiguous Not Tibyaan?
Regards -
Peace
My knowledge
There is definitely ritual prayer in Islam and which is physical, mandatory, and is to be performed as set times, it is referred in the Koran as Salat.
The number of Salats is an odd number , and can be from 3 upwards... (minimum is fajr, zuhr and isha)...
Each Salat is divided in two in which chapter one of the Koran is to be read while standing followed by genuflections of bowing, then prostrating.
In the Salat you can read Du'a (mental prayer) while in genuflection.
Usually once a day Salat require you do ritual ablution with water or take a shower, if you do not have access to water,
use sand / stone each time before Salat.
Du'a is mental exhortation to Allah and is not compulsory, but is an inner Sign of Eeman (as shows reliance on Allah) and gets you closer to Allah, and can be done anywhere, anytime, same as reading the Koran by heart or from the Book (even though in appropriate places)...
This is what Allah taught me from reading the Koran in Arabic.
May Allah increase us in wisdom. -
If some word or sentence or passage can be interpreted MANY ways ,it is called Ambiguous i.e not definite.
Is the Quran really ambiguous Not Tibyaan?So, you're saying that every passage in the Qur'aan can only be interpreted in ONE WAY? How do you explain the fact that, for centuries, Islaamic scholars and translators have insisted that the Qur'aan condones spousal abuse? Why do so many modern Muslims have such a distorted view of "jihaad"? Why is there so much debate, even on this site, regarding what salaat is, how many times per day the Qur'aan demands it, and exactly how to observe it? There are plenty of these so-called "ambiguous" verses in the scripture, and based on the choice of wording within it, many people interpret the same verses in very different ways. It's meant to be that way. That's why Allah says (in the Qur'aan) that He guides some and misleads others; the Qur'aan is meant to guide those pure of heart, and those who reject it are led further in their rejection and disbelief.
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So, you're saying that every passage in the Qur'aan can only be interpreted in ONE WAY? How do you explain the fact that, for centuries, Islaamic scholars and translators have insisted that the Qur'aan condones spousal abuse? Why do so many modern Muslims have such a distorted view of "jihaad"? Why is there so much debate, even on this site, regarding what salaat is, how many times per day the Qur'aan demands it, and exactly how to observe it? There are plenty of these so-called "ambiguous" verses in the scripture, and based on the choice of wording within it, many people interpret the same verses in very different ways. It's meant to be that way. That's why Allah says (in the Qur'aan) that He guides some and misleads others; the Qur'aan is meant to guide those pure of heart, and those who reject it are led further in their rejection and disbelief.
Quran says I am Tibyaan ,MUbeen (Clear).
It is the Filth of one's own mind like that of RK and his followers who think the Quran LIes.
I do not believe in any Modren or Old scholar.Those might your gods but not mine.Regards
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Ok so words like wujuh, ayd, arju,l ru?us, can easily mean those other things right? though in this contexts it seems specific to mention physical aspects
Wipe your feet ila ka3bayn. Upto your ankles/heels..
And if you?re in junuban you need to be tahir.. Even goes on to say if you can?t find water...
There is no implication (to me) that this isn?t a physical ritual aspect of establishing salat.
Sometimes no rituals make things too flimsy.
So what?s AlQuran telling us here? Don?t bother about hygiene or specific acts? When you establish salat be mentally alert through (actually what is your interpretation)???
Though coming to think of it isn?t establishing a mental state intentionally in a specific rite a ritual act anyway?Sorry for the late response.
It?s not so much that the words MEAN other things as they IMPLY other things. Ka?abain for example may mean ankles, sure but who?s to say Q isn?t using the metaphor of the human body to express an idea. Amthal use is no strange thing to Q, as you know.
Words like junub and tayyamum can easily have metaphorised meanings too. I have it written up somewhere but can?t find it just now. Will get back to you on that.
What is Q saying to us here? To me, it?s about purification of our deeds and acts. That while you?re going to establish salaat, you should be a pure person in every possible way. -
ok when you find your notes do share
What is Q saying to us here? To me, it?s about purification of our deeds and acts. That while you?re going to establish salaat, you should be a pure person in every possible way.
that could be physical too could it not
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ok when you find your notes do share
that could be physical too could it not
One thing I always try to do in my construction of the Quranic world-view is to maintain coherence. 4/82 tells us that Quran should not have 'ikhtilaafan katheera' thus it shouldnt be 'all over the place', as it were. 5/6, if you translate it in the sense of a physical ritual, seems out of place compare to the rest of ayaat about salat.
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not necessarily, ikhtilaafan katheera implicates a lot this doesn't seem like a lot of differences.
i'm still trying to understand salat. so i won't comment to much about it... though i still think the verse is literal.
so you believe there are contradictions in quran, but of course not a lot?
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Sorry for the late response.
It?s not so much that the words MEAN other things as they IMPLY other things. Ka?abain for example may mean ankles, sure but who?s to say Q isn?t using the metaphor of the human body to express an idea. Amthal use is no strange thing to Q, as you know.
Words like junub and tayyamum can easily have metaphorised meanings too. I have it written up somewhere but can?t find it just now. Will get back to you on that.
What is Q saying to us here? To me, it?s about purification of our deeds and acts. That while you?re going to establish salaat, you should be a pure person in every possible way.Interesting view. I'll have to check this.
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Quran says I am Tibyaan ,MUbeen (Clear).
It is the Filth of one's own mind like that of RK and his followers who think the Quran LIes.
I do not believe in any Modren or Old scholar.Those might your gods but not mine.Whatever you say, guy... nope
