Hello Folks, Fawzia here! I was a Quranist for 10 months.
-
I never claimed that all Muslims who turn Quranists do so to salvage their faith, but I do know plenty like that.
What does that prove? Rather than attacking individuals who happen to be Muslim/ Quranist for the wrong reasons, why don't you tell us of your arguments against the 'system'
There are atheists who are good and moral people, who do good things and avoid hurting other people because that is what they feel is right. There are other people who are atheists and they cause harm to others since they fear no retribution. I don't see how either type of person represents atheism. Atheism is only a system/ lack of religion, and it should be examined based on its principles, and not on the actual actions of those who claim to be atheist.
Why should the same argument hold for those who claim to be Muslim/ Quranist? Instead of pointing to people who are 'wrong' why don't you point to the flaws of this system?
-
Why would all members need to learn up Hebrew, Aramaic Sanskrit etc? If peoples interests is Quranic the focus would be Quran and possibly learning Arabic or understanding it. Some people with interest in other religions or grew up with backgrounds learning other language may know them, but not me.
LOL Sarah, I was laughing my head off when I read this too. Another thing which made me laugh was this
am no racist again, as Islam isn't a race, disliking Islam isn't a crime. Speaking against Islam isn't a crime. Speaking about any Muslim nation isn't a crime either.
I can almost smell the vehement desperation to somehow to derogate Islam. It's like a little child stomping her feet. As I said, these people come here to use this place as a verbal toilet and when they can't do their number twos (i.e. when ppl actually talk back), things get ugly.
-
I can almost smell the vehement desperation to somehow to derogate Islam. It's like a little child stomping her feet. As I said, these people come here to use this place as a verbal toilet and when they can't do their number twos (i.e. when ppl actually talk back), things get ugly.
Peace,
God willing--one last suggestion to those would rather offend Fawzia in any way than to leave her alone (so she could change her attitude first).
Fawzia and God knows how many other people keep coming back to a thread discussing religions. Do you know why? God knows best.
They might have decided on something before reaching a whole understanding. Be they satisfied or not with their decision--they might still be unconsciously seeking for guidance, while at the same time they could be fulfilling their egos, thanks to the people who help keep the fire in them burning.
How? Everytime we offend those people, their egos are fulfilled. Their proofs and reasons--to hate or reject God's given way--accumulate. Remember, they don't necessarily be logical--they have emotions too.
God knows best how our words or actions could hurt the feelings of others, despite of our original intention.
Please observe
6108 And do not insult those they invoke other than God, lest they insult God in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made pleasing to every community their deeds. Then to their Lord is their RETURN, and He will inform them about what they used to do.
yes, in the case of atheists, they may have no god which we could scoff at, but that is on the outside--we have no idea of what actually their god is (or what their gods are) in their heart.
Now please for a moment see the verse this way It is His message to His believers, and it is God's attention to the disbelievers' side.
Shocking, no? Remember, any insult will not reach God's majesty and glory, so why would God express, "lest they insult God in enmity without knowledge"? And what use would that be for the believers' side? (well there is one i could think, but please read on)
What if God meant it as His mercy for the (at present) disbelievers (polytheists and atheists alike), "not to insult God in enmity without knowledge"? God knows how sorry and wretched one would feel, if he or she would later RETURN to Him. And if he or she stay in disbelieve--do you know how hard that is, losing trust on God, losing hope on the Best of Hopes, losing direction, losing the ever-sustaining feeling of Mercy? Those who have been in Fawzia's position, for even just a moment long, would understand this by heart. It is an emptiness you don't want to be in, ever again.
As for the believers' side, of course they will be enraged if God is insulted before them--but is that a good thing for them? Or would God prefer peace and relieve in their heart? That is God's mercy for the believers.
Now, do you think God has no mercy on Fawzia? Do you think God has abandoned her?
If you don't think it appropriate to give "nice words" to her, then refrain from giving "words that might hurt her" beyond her faults (and God bless you if you did just that). And do you know, exactly, what are the words that might not hurt her beyond her faults? Or God knows better than you?
If you think God knows better than you, then please follow His message. Leave her alone, until communication on her side is changed (topic and or attitude).
Do yourself--and her--a favour by following God's suggestion. Or are you trying to stand between God and her?
And to Fawzia, please do yourself a favour by the best you can think of. This is a matter of eternity (or at least, the rest of your life), as you might've been well aware of. Take time.
Peace,
-
Peace San,
Do you think it is wise to be nice or 'leave alone' someone who mocks or ridicules your beliefs? Somehow that doesn?t seem wise. True some things can be said differently but in no way can a person change another?s attitude or perspective that comes within them not based on others. I could be the nicest/evilest person in the world and still be mistreated or have biased attitudes/perspective placed upon me.
People should defend truth and what is haqq not let people run all over it. Just because one hopes for better it doesn?t mean we need to give them a cushion and ensure they?re all comfy. Life isn?t about cushioning on hope.
I feel you?re directing yourself to abdalquran, as far as i can see he was just responding back to her in the same tone Fawzia started.
-
Peace Sarah,
To be nice? No--that is not necessary. Just leave him/her. 'Leave alone' someone who mocks or ridicules your beliefs? Yes, there are reasons for that, based on Quran, which i was trying to present in my last few posts (i know i don't have the best explanation).
No way can a person change another's attitude or perspective? Agreed. No way. God changes the person. That's why we better follow God's suggestion.
You could the nicest/evilest person in the world and still be mistreated or have biased attitudes/perspective placed upon you? We have similarity here. Everyone has the chance to be in your position as well. So--neglecting others who are mistreating you--what would you rather be for God? Nicest or Evilest?
Thus, if you intend to defend truth and what is haqq, please follow God's message. Leave them who ridicules the beliefs. That's not equal to being nice to them. Do you think people reading this thread cannot decide for themselves, what is true, haqq, and what is wrong?
Can people run all over the truth? No, their words have no effect whatsoever on the truth. They only reveal their own state.
In this case of sibling marriage, i am actually very interested myself. However should i discuss it with Fawzia, in the current state she's in? No.
Do 'we need to give them a cushion'? No, indeed. And don't you think that her "cushion" and "comfy" might be our replies to her, at all?
Regarding tone, it does indeed matter. It is between fulfilling her flames and emptying her flames. I don't know how soon will her "flames" be emptied, but for sure it will not be too soon if we keep on feeding her back--she'd have enough wood or gas for a couple days and maybe weeks...
Peace, Sarah <-- not an apologetic smile ...
... but this one is -->
-
Yeah sure, any Muslim who rejects the Quran is either lying & was never Muslim in the first place, or the rejection was based on Islamist movements in their country or(if its a woman) evil patriarchal practices in their so called Muslim family which has nothing to do with the Quran! yeah
Did I say that "any Muslim who rejects the Quran is either lying & was never Muslim in the first place, or the rejection was based on Islamist movements in their country..."
I'm not putting words in your mouth so please don't put words in mine. My personal belief is that the whole purpose of the not so Islamic not really revolution in Iran was to turn Iranians into athiests, and has succeded in doing so. I for one could care less what you or anyone believes, I'm happy with my beliefs. And You're coming off exactly like the closed-minded "Muslims" you despise. You some kind of Wahabi Athiest or something?PS, The Persian empire was no different than other empires, it oppressed,stole land,and forced it's way on others, just like any other empire. But you can romanticize it if it makes you happy
-
Did I say that "any Muslim who rejects the Quran is either lying & was never Muslim in the first place, or the rejection was based on Islamist movements in their country..."
I'm not putting words in your mouth so please don't put words in mine. My personal belief is that the whole purpose of the not so Islamic not really revolution in Iran was to turn Iranians into athiests, and has succeded in doing so. I for one could care less what you or anyone believes, I'm happy with my beliefs. And You're coming off exactly like the closed-minded "Muslims" you despise. You some kind of Wahabi Athiest or something?PS, The Persian empire was no different than other empires, it oppressed,stole land,and forced it's way on others, just like any other empire. But you can romanticize it if it makes you happy
I rejected Islam based on the Quran itself, not only hadiths nor on the basis of what happens in Iran.
Sure the Persian empire was like any other empire-exactly like the Islamic empire. I don't romanticize it, however I have seen plenty of Muslims(not all) romanticize bloody Islamic conquests, stealings of lands, carrying of kaffir women etc.
-
I rejected Islam based on the Quran itself, not only hadiths nor on the basis of what happens in Iran.
Never accused you of such. All I'm saying is that it's the knee-jerk reaction alot of people will have. All recent "revolutions" are social engineering.
Sure the Persian empire was like any other empire-exactly like the Islamic empire. I don't romanticize it, however I have seen plenty of Muslims(not all) romanticize bloody Islamic conquests, stealings of lands, carrying of kaffir women etc.
I agree. And that's exactly my point, the good ol human tradition of "everybody's shit stinks but mine".
-
Peace,
God willing--one last suggestion to those would rather offend Fawzia in any way than to leave her alone (so she could change her attitude first).
Fawzia and God knows how many other people keep coming back to a thread discussing religions. Do you know why? God knows best.
They might have decided on something before reaching a whole understanding. Be they satisfied or not with their decision--they might still be unconsciously seeking for guidance, while at the same time they could be fulfilling their egos, thanks to the people who help keep the fire in them burning.
How? Everytime we offend those people, their egos are fulfilled. Their proofs and reasons--to hate or reject God's given way--accumulate. Remember, they don't necessarily be logical--they have emotions too.
God knows best how our words or actions could hurt the feelings of others, despite of our original intention.
Please observe
6108 And do not insult those they invoke other than God, lest they insult God in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made pleasing to every community their deeds. Then to their Lord is their RETURN, and He will inform them about what they used to do.
yes, in the case of atheists, they may have no god which we could scoff at, but that is on the outside--we have no idea of what actually their god is (or what their gods are) in their heart.
Now please for a moment see the verse this way It is His message to His believers, and it is God's attention to the disbelievers' side.
Shocking, no? Remember, any insult will not reach God's majesty and glory, so why would God express, "lest they insult God in enmity without knowledge"? And what use would that be for the believers' side? (well there is one i could think, but please read on)
What if God meant it as His mercy for the (at present) disbelievers (polytheists and atheists alike), "not to insult God in enmity without knowledge"? God knows how sorry and wretched one would feel, if he or she would later RETURN to Him. And if he or she stay in disbelieve--do you know how hard that is, losing trust on God, losing hope on the Best of Hopes, losing direction, losing the ever-sustaining feeling of Mercy? Those who have been in Fawzia's position, for even just a moment long, would understand this by heart. It is an emptiness you don't want to be in, ever again.
As for the believers' side, of course they will be enraged if God is insulted before them--but is that a good thing for them? Or would God prefer peace and relieve in their heart? That is God's mercy for the believers.
Now, do you think God has no mercy on Fawzia? Do you think God has abandoned her?
If you don't think it appropriate to give "nice words" to her, then refrain from giving "words that might hurt her" beyond her faults (and God bless you if you did just that). And do you know, exactly, what are the words that might not hurt her beyond her faults? Or God knows better than you?
If you think God knows better than you, then please follow His message. Leave her alone, until communication on her side is changed (topic and or attitude).
Do yourself--and her--a favour by following God's suggestion. Or are you trying to stand between God and her?
And to Fawzia, please do yourself a favour by the best you can think of. This is a matter of eternity (or at least, the rest of your life), as you might've been well aware of. Take time.
Peace,
bravo
-
I rejected Islam based on the Quran itself, not only hadiths nor on the basis of what happens in Iran.
Sure the Persian empire was like any other empire-exactly like the Islamic empire. I don't romanticize it, however I have seen plenty of Muslims(not all) romanticize bloody Islamic conquests, stealings of lands, carrying of kaffir women etc.
Fawzia, I'll ask you once more the same question.
what are your objections to the Quran itself, and give reasons that are not based on the actions of individuals but on what the QURAN ACTUALLY SAYS.
Your seeing muslims romanticise 'bloody Islamic conquests, stealings of lands, carrying of kaffir women' does not apply to us, nor do we have any reason to feel responsible or apologetic for that, since WE DO NOT IDENTIFY WITH THEM.
Fawzia, I have to ask, are you here to discuss problems with the Quran, or are you here to bash muslims as a group based on the actions of some so-called 'muslim' individuals? It seems to me that all you have done is muslim-bashing and south asian- bashing
-
Do you think it is wise to be nice or 'leave alone' someone who mocks or ridicules your beliefs? Somehow that doesn?t seem wise.
People should defend truth and what is haqq not let people run all over it. Just because one hopes for better it doesn?t mean we need to give them a cushion and ensure they?re all comfy. Life isn?t about cushioning on hope.
I feel you?re directing yourself to abdalquran, as far as i can see he was just responding back to her in the same tone Fawzia started.
Peace
I don't think it's wise to leave alone someone who is being mocking, but it can be done without being mocking or sarcastic. If there is one thing I have noticed, it's that being mocking or sarcastic has a tendency of masking good arguments, since one focuses on the sarcastic tone, and not on the arguments.
Defence of truth is by providing good arguments for one's own side, rebuttals to points against one's own side, breaking down arguments from the other side, and doing so via logical arguments. There is no need to be rude. There is no need to stoop to their level. Truth stands free from error, and it rests on reason, not on rantings and rudeness.
AbdulQuran has been rude, Sarah. If you just look at the tone of his posts, and compare them to mine, yours, or that of anyone else on this thread, I think it is fairly obvious that he deserves to be called out for it. Why should he have to respond back in the same rude tone Fawzia started? If you look at the earlier parts of this thread, you can see that he has been extremely rude to me, making wild accusations that 'my friend of a friend is a donkey' and that the Quran my dad's friend bought is 'mythical' and so on. I haven't been rude to him in return, despite the fact that he has not been civil. Why should he respond back in the same tone Fawzia has used? It's only because he chooses to be rude.
Peace,
Sarah
-
Talking about that thread.. would be good if you weren?t evasive and only responded to cousin marriages, even then you're still selective.
So anyway back to your questions and comments. Yeah it does invite people to learn about islam Quranicly though remember it is a forum and it?s filled with people?s opinions.
Why would all members need to learn up Hebrew, Aramaic Sanskrit etc? If peoples interests is Quranic the focus would be Quran and possibly learning Arabic or understanding it. Some people with interest in other religions or grew up with backgrounds learning other language may know them, but not me.
anyway your beliefs are your choice, as are mine. I hope you gain whatever it is you wish to learn from this forum
Peace.
bravo
exactly, Fawzia, instead of bashing the people who do strange, evil and criminal things, ( be it female genital mutilation, witch burning, murder of 'apostates' etc) why don't you focus on the Quran for once? This is a forum, just like Sarah said, for the serious study of the Quran, ok, not for supporting each and every evil committed by every 'so-called' Muslim, so please stop spamming this forum with descriptions of stupid things done by some so called muslims who don't even follow the Quran, ok?
giveup
Sarah
-
AbdulQuran has been rude, Sarah. If you just look at the tone of his posts, and compare them to mine, yours, or that of anyone else on this thread, I think it is fairly obvious that he deserves to be called out for it. Why should he have to respond back in the same rude tone Fawzia started? If you look at the earlier parts of this thread, you can see that he has been extremely rude to me, making wild accusations that 'my friend of a friend is a donkey' and that the Quran my dad's friend bought is 'mythical' and so on. I haven't been rude to him in return, despite the fact that he has not been civil. Why should he respond back in the same tone Fawzia has used? It's only because he chooses to be rude.
Try reading your own posts. Certainly, from my perspective he comes off as the bigger man here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599400.msg230059#msg230059
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599400.msg230057#msg230057You seem to have a personal vendetta against Abdalquran, which is heavily clouding your judgment.. I suggest reading 2158-63. Abraham, the leader of mankind is being a bit 'rude', don't you think? There's also 4148 and 604...We have to stand up to the truth and can't be nice for the sake of being nice. Someone comes into my house with guns blazing, I am not gonna sit here and start screaming 'peace!'. That won't solve the problem.
-
Try reading your own posts. Certainly, from my perspective he comes off as the bigger man here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599400.msg230059#msg230059
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599400.msg230057#msg230057You seem to have a personal vendetta against Abdalquran, which is heavily clouding your judgment.. I suggest reading 2158-63. Abraham, the leader of mankind is being a bit 'rude', don't you think? There's also 4148 and 604...We have to stand up to the truth and can't be nice for the sake of being nice. Someone comes into my house with guns blazing, I am not gonna sit there and start screaming 'peace!'. That won't solve the problem.
Wow Jack, that is quite fair, those are just two, where, I'll admit, I did take a jibe at him, but it was pretty mild, and well deserved. What about the other posts preceding that? or the ones on the other thread about the preservation of the Quran to the last letter? If you don't think his tone was off putting, or that he didn't say things like ' my friend of a friend is a donkey,' then you are not being judging fairly. I didn't even start by being rude to him, I was fairly patient. I am also not the only person on this thread to call out on him for being overtly rude.
Besides, when have I not stood up for what I believe in the truth? I have argued against every silly accusation Fawzia has made when I had time to.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599400.msg229908#msg229908
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599400.msg229913#msg229913
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599400.msg230008#msg230008
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599400.msg230038#msg230038
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599400.msg230043#msg230043 -
Wow Jack, that is quite fair, those are just two, where, I'll admit, I did take a jibe at him, but it was pretty mild, and well deserved. What about the other posts preceding that? or the ones on the other thread about the preservation of the Quran to the last letter? If you don't think his tone was off putting, or that he didn't say things like ' my friend of a friend is a donkey,' then you are not being judging fairly. I didn't even start by being rude to him, I was fairly patient. I am also not the only person on this thread to call out on him for being overtly rude.
Besides, when have I not stood up for what I believe in the truth? I have argued against every silly accusation Fawzia has made when I had time to.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599400.msg229908#msg229908
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599400.msg229913#msg229913
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599400.msg230008#msg230008
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599400.msg230038#msg230038
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599400.msg230043#msg230043but it was pretty mild, and well deserved.
Do two wrongs make a right?
Sister, that's from your view. You take what he says too personally. Don't. He means no harshness by it. I'm just an outsider, not trying to take sides or anything. He's just using sarcasm to make a point. Don't take it so personally.If you don't think his tone was off putting, or that he didn't say things like ' my friend of a friend is a donkey,' then you are not being judging fairly. I didn't even start by being rude to him, I was fairly patient.
Well, I am not judging anyone. If I was ever unfair, I couldn't live with myself.
You are confusing sarcasm with rudeness. Don't take it personally sis. If he meant to be mean/rude/whatever, why would he agree to disagree?? That makes no sense. A lot of arguments, in my experience, arise from confusion and misunderstanding the other's intentions, etc.Besides, when have I not stood up for what I believe in the truth? I have argued against every silly accusation Fawzia has made when I had time to.
You have, and a good job at that. But, that's your methodology, others have a different approach. But you see she's clearly here with an agenda, and her views need to be called out as they are. Sarcasm is a good tool for this. Much like how Abraham showed the absurdity of his father's view, using sarcasm.
-
You take what he says too personally. Don't. He means no harshness by it.
You are confusing sarcasm with rudeness. Don't take it personally sis. If he meant to be mean/rude/whatever, why would he agree to disagree??Peace Jack
you don't know that 'he means no harshness by it.' Let me remind you that he started with all that rudeness/sarcastic comments out of the blue. It was uncalled for.
He might be just getting a kick out of being rude and sarcastic since everyone can hide behind the anonymity of the net, for all I know. Does that mean that it is possible that he might not have intended to be harsh? Well yes, but maybe not.I don't think I am confusing sarcasm with rudeness, I think I would know the difference between sarcastic comments and rude comments directed at myself in which he says that I'll 'jump up and down.' Besides, tone of 'voice' doesn't carry over in text in an online forum, so it's usually better to avoid sarcasm when it can be so easily misunderstood. Most people know that.
I don't know why he agreed to disagree. Maybe because he realised that he didn't have concrete evidence, and because I didn't respond to him in the same rude tone he used on me?
I have no doubt that you are not taking sides, I have not accused you of that. But when you are on the receiving end of off-putting remarks and rude comments where someone says that I would play 'Indiana Jones with "that"' it can be hard to have a proper, civilised discussion, which is the very purpose of this forum. By that, I mean that it's hard for me to not take it personally.
I can understand that a lot of people are very irked by the comments Fawzia made on this thread. I know I am. They have no basis in logical reasoning. And that proves that she has an agenda. But I don't, I am here to learn, and to ask legitimate questions, and I don't see how sarcasm is a good 'tool' against me. Not that I am suggesting that you have said so, but regardless of whether AbdulQuran's comments are rude or sarcastic, that is not the tone I would expect or feel like I should even tolerate.
peace
Sarah -
Certainly, from my perspective he comes off as the bigger man here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599400.msg230059#msg230059
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599400.msg230057#msg230057You seem to have a personal vendetta against Abdalquran, which is heavily clouding your judgment..
Well, he clearly is the 'bigger man' over here, considering that I am not a man laugh
I don't think you can fairly say that I have a 'personal vendetta' against him. I don't. I'd be just as annoyed with someone else who treated me similarly.
I know you aren't taking sides, I just wanted to mention that it was this statement that made me think you were. That's all.
Peace
Sarah
-
Fawzia, I'll ask you once more the same question.
what are your objections to the Quran itself, and give reasons that are not based on the actions of individuals but on what the QURAN ACTUALLY SAYS.
Your seeing muslims romanticise 'bloody Islamic conquests, stealings of lands, carrying of kaffir women' does not apply to us, nor do we have any reason to feel responsible or apologetic for that, since WE DO NOT IDENTIFY WITH THEM.
Fawzia, I have to ask, are you here to discuss problems with the Quran, or are you here to bash muslims as a group based on the actions of some so-called 'muslim' individuals? It seems to me that all you have done is muslim-bashing and south asian- bashing
Hi Sarah,
I have made a thread on what the Quran actually says, here it is
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599413.msg230541#new
This thread has been read around 40 times, unfortunately I get no answers. I had requested both Wakas & anyone else to answer.
Please answer if you feel like it, or at least read it.
This isn't about South Asian Muslims, Middle Eastern Muslims or North African Muslims, Sub Saharan African Muslims only-it concerns the entire Muslim ummah & will become even more important in the coming decades, & its an issue which is very pertinent.
As far as I know, only extremely few Muslim nations, the Turkish Constitution, which isn't based on the Quran at all, gives women -like female children & widows, the same inheritance rights that it gives men in a similar position, yet the real world is rapidly changing.Somalia did give women equal inheritance rights, yet the Islamist movements there have again been a setback.
With family sizes shrinking rapidly all over the world including in many Muslim nations which have around 2 children or less currently, & with more women than men going in for higher education even in nations like Iran & Saudi-many daughters are now the only ones to care for aged parents & many wives are either out earning their husbands or will outearn husbands in future generations, yet the Quran stifles change here.
-
AbdulQuran has been rude, Sarah. If you just look at the tone of his posts, and compare them to mine, yours, or that of anyone else on this thread, I think it is fairly obvious that he deserves to be called out for it. Why should he have to respond back in the same rude tone Fawzia started? If you look at the earlier parts of this thread, you can see that he has been extremely rude to me, making wild accusations that 'my friend of a friend is a donkey' and that the Quran my dad's friend bought is 'mythical' and so on. I haven't been rude to him in return, despite the fact that he has not been civil. Why should he respond back in the same tone Fawzia has used? It's only because he chooses to be rude.
Gemini, why don't you face it, you're the kind of person who sets different standards of behaviour one for herself and one for others (namely, me). As Jack has pointed out (thanks Jack), you weren't exactly conciliatory to me (I simply call your behavour RUDE, not that I care what you say) in the other thread where you said well, definitely more than you in reply #153 of this thread.
But for you, its ok. Just look at what you wrote here I did take a jibe at him, but it was pretty mild, and well deserved
Wow, in your case, its MILD? And well-DESERVED? So Fawzia, the virulent racist who doesn't have time to answer questions but starts multiple-threads deserves your utmost politeness but when when it comes to your jibe at me, it's 'well-deserved'. You're a hypocrite and a half, you know that. Why didn't you practise your Gandhi-like stoicness in my case? Because I was ripping your 'variant reading' crap, perhaps? It must burn you a lot that you can't produce a single defect among the so-called 'Hafs' but you need to go with the pathetic 'if its in print, its a variant' rubbish.
By the way, Quran sanctions not-nice language (su' min al-qawl - see 4/14 when an injustice has been done (illa man dhulima). I don't have to be nice to some halfwit who came here to defecate on us and whenever we point out what QURAN says, 'she' fends it off with a pathetic 'i'll stick to reviewed (sic) traditional translations'. So have a look at 4/148, I dunno maybe your current 'variant' or whatever the heck you call it says something else, God knows.
As for saying 'your friend of a friend is donkey', I think you have some serious reading comprehension issues. Here's what I said. I was talking about MY friend's donkey, not yours. I wasn't even calling my friend a donkey, let alone yours. So kindly stop your LIES. It's RUDE.
And about 'mythical', I don't know if you're familiar with philosophy at all, but in philosophy (specficially a branch called 'phenomenology' something which exists in a consciousness or a shared consciousness (what a discourse like ours creates) is called a 'myth'. It's myth because I've never seen it. I never met your dad's friend, your dad or even you (thank heaven for small favours eh) so you are all MYTHS to me.
Do try to read properly in the future, it really helps when you don't twist what other people say.
-
Simmer down Abdal... muscle
Fawzia, Asr be kheyr! Shoma chestur hastin?
I want to welcome you to this place of rejects. This is a plaza of heretics, some might assert, and I am proud to say that I belong here. There is nothing in Islam, true Quranic Islam, that states that wrestling with our faith will never occur. For certain, I do not hold the Hadiths and the Sunnah to be as elevated as al Quran by virtue that al Quran was recited by Allah to our Prophet Muhammed's, pbuh, blessed ears. I have serious misgivings about Sharia Law on this basis. The Law of Allah was expounded to the Prophet Moses. When the Prophet Isa, pbuh, came to us, he said that he did not come to change one letter of the Law of Allah, and the injeel is congruent this statement. And so, why should we believe that Sharia Law reflects the true will of Allah? Because learned philosophers and clerics said that Sharia Law is righteous?? We must obey and submit to Allah, not men/women who would set themselves up as Allah.
I pray for your spiritual journey. May Allah will reveal the straight path and guide you upon it like a merciful father. May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon you!
Shab be kheyr. Ba?adan mibinamet.
Dariush