Jews not following Torah are like donkeys with Books
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- Tauraat says a sign of those WITH MUHAMMAD is that they will bow and prostrate seeking God's preference and goodwill.(48/29) . Produce this statement from te Torah.
"...Their distinction is in their faces, as a result of submitting. Such is their likeness in the Torah...." (4829)
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Hi abdulquran!
Thanks for the many laughs, you really made my day! laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh
Good indication of your social life.
Your frustration at encountering an apostate is laughable indeed! AND chastising that apostate for not bothering to learn Arabic first? laugh
Please tell every convert you encounter to learn Arabic first too at least.
With you, a prerequite to learning any language is learning some logical skills.
Did I say I believe Taurat is the Torah?
Sigh...I seriously cannot believe even THIS is beyond you.
Let me spell it out for you
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You quoted 62/5, sayin that Jews are being faulted for not applying the 'Torah'.
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62/5 doesn't mention the 'torah', it mentions at-tauraat.
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However, by your reasoning (sic), the torah must be the tauraat because 'torah' is never mentioned in the Quran.
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I now ask you for proof (please look it up, what 'proof' means) that torah is tauraat.
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I gave you 4 points which points to the CONTRARY of this.
I await your answers (rhetorically, because I know they'll never come).
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This is a beautiful article on the Taurat
http//www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Taurat
I never claimed that the Taurat is the Torah again, only its Muhammad's garbled reproduction of the Torah plus stuff he's added onto it to make himself look authentic & justify his claims of being the Seal of the Prophets by saying that all these were supposedly originally there but got corrupted yada, yada so he had to arrive on the scene to put things striaght! ;D
Spare me your rantings. You're a person who can't argue to save your life but must actually use so-called psychological tactics (which by the way is laughable).
So you think taurat is torah, eh? Very good.
Quran says
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Tauraat contains the promise that those who believe will sell their lives and wealth for the sake of Allah and will die in the cause fighting (9/111). Produce this statement from the Torah.
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Tauraat says a sign of those WITH MUHAMMAD is that they will bow and prostrate seeking God's preference and goodwill.(48/29) . Produce this statement from te Torah.
Obviously he needed to add stuff to the Quranic Taurat apart from the Torah, if he was simply reproducing, how would he justify his claims of being the restorer of original Scriptures? ;D
Why will MUHAMMAD be mentioned in the Torah? How could they know that this imposter would crop up 1000's of years later?Muhammad needed to make people believe he's the last prophet,so he liberally twisted the stories, made claims etc.
Such stuff will naturally be added in by Muhammad to show that he's indeed the restorer, thankfully Jews didn't fall for his claims & stuck to their beliefs!
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I never claimed that the Taurat is the Torah again, only its Muhammad's garbled reproduction of the Torah plus stuff he's added onto it to make himself look authentic & justify his claims of being the Seal of the Prophets by saying that all these were supposedly originally there but got corrupted yada, yada so he had to arrive on the scene to put things striaght! ;D
Obviously he needed to add stuff to the Quranic Taurat apart from the Torah, if he was simply reproducing, how would he justify his claims of being the restorer of original Scriptures? ;D
LOL very good, thank you. I love the 'apart from the Torah' eh? Good try there, Fawzia.
Where is your EVIDENCE of this? If Quran says 'tauraat' contains the things I mentioned and Torah simply doesn't, then you'll need evidence to link the two.
Remember, you want to attack the Quran. You don't need hadith, right? Well show us how you link Torah in anyway to Quran. Quran never allows ANY OTHER source of information. Do I need to tell you, ex-Quranist? LOL.
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Good indication of your social life.
With you, a prerequite to learning any language is learning some logical skills.I have a fantastic social life, thank you! Unfortunately, not meeting that many Muslims of your variety, I don't get to laugh at this sort of stupidity often!
I have sufficient logical skills, you need to learn that while many gullible non Arabic speakers are going to enter your religion, many will bother to read translations & quit as well, & not work yourself up into a frenzy.
;DJews are being faulted for not applying the Taurat, but why should they apply Muhammad made Taurat?
They're capable of coming up with better stuff that what Muhammad can produce, thank you!
They don't need stonings, not even Muhammad's lashings-& they don't need to accept Muhammad's plagiarized re telling of their stories.
You don't need to give me points, just explain what I asked
Why should Muhammad plagiarize Jewish Scriptures, add his own two cents to those-then chastise the Jews for being like "donkeys with books" when they don't follow?
Jews won't & don't follow Muhammad's laws, they're fine with their Torah & whatever innovations to that they have come up with?
Why should Muhammad insult them, calling them "donkeys with books?"
Would you like it if someone plagiarized a story you wrote, added weird characters & incidents onto it, then claimed that this is the original story & you better follow it or be called a donkey or ass with books? ;D
This is offensive hate speech by Muhammad.
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Yawn...
Once again EVIDENCE PLEASE
Where is proof that tauraat is an addition to the TORAH. Quran asserts COMPLETENESS over its ideology. It never refers its reader to another book.
Where is your EVIDENCE that Quran is faulting jews for not adhering literally to the 'torah' (which you quoted from).
I have a fantastic social life, thank you! Unfortunately, not meeting that many Muslims of your variety, I don't get to laugh at this sort of stupidity often!
I have sufficient logical skills, you need to learn that while many gullible non Arabic speakers are going to enter your religion, many will bother to read translations & quit as well, & not work yourself up into a frenzy.
;DJews are being faulted for not applying the Taurat, but why should they apply Muhammad made Taurat?
They're capable of coming up with better stuff that what Muhammad can produce, thank you!
They don't need stonings, not even Muhammad's lashings-& they don't need to accept Muhammad's plagiarized re telling of their stories.
You don't need to give me points, just explain what I asked
Why should Muhammad plagiarize Jewish Scriptures, add his own two cents to those-then chastise the Jews for being like "donkeys with books" when they don't follow?
Jews won't & don't follow Muhammad's laws, they're fine with their Torah & whatever innovations to that they have come up with?
Why should Muhammad insult them, calling them "donkeys with books?"
Would you like it if someone plagiarized a story you wrote, added weird characters & incidents onto it, then claimed that this is the original story & you better follow it or be called a donkey or ass with books? ;D
This is offensive hate speech by Muhammad.
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Yawn...
Once again EVIDENCE PLEASE
Where is proof that tauraat is an addition to the TORAH. Quran asserts COMPLETENESS over its ideology. It never refers its reader to another book.
When did I say Tauraat is an addition in the sense of readers being required to read the Torah first?Sure it needed to assert COMPLETENESS & create a complete story. Otherwise, Muhammad again ran the risk of losing his importance.
Tauraat is not addition in the sense of being required to read the old books first, its an addition in the sense of Muhammad first plagiarizing from the Torah stories & then adding his own stuff onto it.
Plagiarisms simply try to pass themselves off as the true thing, obviously they won't refer people to the original first.
Please cool down first abdulquran, I realise its emotionally frustrating when someone leaves Islam brickwall, which makes you want to lash out at the person, but your anger won't achieve much.
Tauraat is plagiarism from Torah plus addition of Muhammad's creations which is presented in the Quran(no one is required to study Torah first) & Jews are required to accept Muhammad's plagiarism as their true scriptures or be called "donkeys"! D
Muhammad thought he could coerce Jews into accepting his versions & thus the Quran gradually, fortunately they didn't.
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LOL, no proof eh? It's not atypical with you.
Here's your reasoning once again
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You quote 62/5 which chastises the jews for not CARRYING (yahmiloo) the tauraat
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According to you, this means that Quran wants them to follow the TORAH (from which you quoted from laws).
Is this correct or wrong? Upon your answer, we will proceed.
No running away this time, Fawzia.
When did I say Tauraat is an addition in the sense of readers being required to read the Torah first?Sure it needed to assert COMPLETENESS & create a complete story. Otherwise, Muhammad again ran the risk of losing his importance.
Tauraat is not addition in the sense of being required to read the old books first, its an addition in the sense of Muhammad first plagiarizing from the Torah stories & then adding his own stuff onto it.
Plagiarisms simply try to pass themselves off as the true thing, obviously they won't refer people to the original first.
Please cool down first abdulquran, I realise its emotionally frustrating when someone leaves Islam brickwall, which makes you want to lash out at the person, but your anger won't achieve much.
Tauraat is plagiarism from Torah plus addition of Muhammad's creations which is presented in the Quran(no one is required to study Torah first) & Jews are required to accept Muhammad's plagiarism as their true scriptures or be called "donkeys"! D
Muhammad thought he could coerce Jews into accepting his versions & thus the Quran gradually, fortunately they didn't.
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No running away this time, Fawzia.
Where will we proceed abdul quran? Have you cooled down your frustrations at the apostate first?
Is it right to call people donkeys with books? ???
Is it right to insult a community in this way? ???
You've tried to show I'm a racist plenty of times, that was your earliest attempts to silence the apostate, with charges of racism.Then there were charges of ignorance of Arabic, etc, etc.I've seen a similar attitude from plenty of Muslims( however, in their double standards, they're delighted with the most ignorant of converts)
There are millions of Jews in the world.Isn't it racist of Muhammad or his Allah to call people "asses with books?"
Did I call any community asses & donkeys?
Why should Muhammad be allowed this sort of hate speech?
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Why are you so afraid to answer, Fawzia? Worried that your b.s. will finally be exposed?
I repeat (and will keep repeating)
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You quote 62/5 which chastises the jews for not CARRYING (yahmiloo) the tauraat
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According to you, this means that Quran wants them to follow the TORAH (from which you quoted from laws).
Is this correct or wrong? Upon your answer, we will proceed
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Why are you so afraid to answer, Fawzia? Worried that your b.s. will finally be exposed?
I am afraid of nothing abdul quran, I can sense & deeply sympathise with Muslim frustrations at someone dumping their religion, then that person is b.s.-however, anyone accepting their faith, if only for the dumbest reasons & with the most basic knowledge is celebrated.
Calling me bullshit will unfortunately not make your Quran a noble, pleasing book.
I ask you, is it right, non racist to call a community of mllions "donkeys with books," if they refuse to accept Muhammad's retelling & additions to his stories?
I realise I have created tremendous anger, frustration, outraghe etc etc, unfortunately incessantly lashing out at me online won't solve anything or add anything to the debate.
It won't make the Quran's offensive hate speech disappear.
If you're a person so deeply concerned with racism, as you like to portray yourself to an apostate, please answer?
Is it racist hate speech or not to call others "donkeys with books?" How will Muslims live in respect & mutual co operation with others if they use this sort of hate speech?
Would you like it if someone copied your Quran, added new stuff onto it to make a brand new religious book, & called you Quranist Muslims "donkeys with books,"?
As I said, while deeply sympathising with Muslim frustrations like yours, this won't make the Quranic hate speech go away.
Tch, tch. So non racist abdul quran, is it\is it not-racism to call others donkeys with books?
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Spare me your psycho-jive talk. You're an intellectual coward, 'Fawzia'. But I tell you what, AS SOON as we finish dealing with the Taurat/Torah issue, I will answer your questions regarding the Jews.
Now I repeat (and will keep repeating)
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You quote 62/5 which chastises the jews for not CARRYING (yahmiloo) the tauraat
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According to you, this means that Quran wants them to follow the TORAH (from which you quoted from laws).
Is this correct or wrong? Upon your answer, we will proceed
Why do you keep running away, Fawzia? lol.....
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Conversion and apostasy is not unique to Islam. Even criticism of other people is not unique to the Quran.
The Torah mocks Egypt as the place of sin. The NT bashes the Jews consistently. etc.
Many Jews don't believe in their books. Many Christians become atheists.
Who cares what anyone thinks. I know one thing for certain, truth is truth and it will prevail independent to what you and I believe or think, no matter what it is.
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Spare me your psycho-jive talk. You're an intellectual coward, 'Fawzia'. But I tell you what, AS SOON as we finish dealing with the Taurat/Torah issue, I will answer your questions regarding the Jews.
You fail to understand something extremely important abdul quran-calling an apostate racist, ignorant of classical Arabic, intellectual coward etc won't solve anything regarding the Quran, coz an apostate isn't supposed to be perfect, Allah is.
Allah calls Jews donkeys with books, is that racist or not?
You seem to go by the legal maxim, "When you have a weak defence, put your opponent on trial,' assume that by calling apostates racist, non familiar with Arabic, cowards etc etc-the problems with your God will vanish.
Unfortunately, its your God & his hate speech which is on trial.
Is it racism & hate speech to call the Jews donkeys with books or not?
I am not your Allah, so trying to find faults like racism etc with me won't defend Allah.If your God is perfect & if you think that racism is bad, then surely you can answer?
Is it racist to call Jews donkeys with books or not?
Your attempts to characterize me as racist et al won't in the least make your God more pleasant, however, showing how he is non racist surely will.
Please show-is it racist or non racist to call Jews donkeys with books? ???
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I told you, I will enter this discussion with you about jews when you answer the previous questions. You have run away and i think its clear now to the forum what an utter coward you are.
I will repeat, for the last time. If you have guts, you will answer. If not, it won't surprise me
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You quote 62/5 which chastises the jews for not CARRYING (yahmiloo) the tauraat
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According to you, this means that Quran wants them to follow the TORAH (from which you quoted from laws).
Is this correct or wrong? Upon your answer, we will proceed
This question essentially clarifies YOUR initial post but I think you know, once you answer this, you will be caught
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First, the first criticizer of the Jews or Israelites was Yahweh Himself.
Second, the expression donkeys with books is not insulting to the Jews specifically, but anyone who caries a book and claim to believe in it and identify himself with it but doesn't follow it is indeed like a donkey carrying books. It is not degrading to the donkey but a donkey doesn't care or know the specificities of the load on his back.
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Even criticism of other people is not unique to the Quran.
Sure, but that is tu quoque logical fallacy, to say that something isn't bad because so & so other people have also done it.
Saudis call blacks "abd" "zinji" etc disparagingly, racism isn't unique to them some Americans call Blacks niggers.
Does this justify or exonerate Saudi racism?
The Torah mocks Egypt as the place of sin. The NT bashes the Jews consistently. etc.
And that makes the Quran's bashing of Jews, Christians, idolators all right?
Turkey colonized Greece, that makes Netherlands' colonization of Indonesia allright?
Thats tu quoque logical fallacy again.
Many Jews don't believe in their books. Many Christians become atheists.
Who cares what anyone thinks. I know one thing for certain, truth is truth and it will prevail independent to what you and I believe or think, no matter what it is.
What these books preach is important, as they mould millions & billions of folks.
Thus if the NT bashes Jews, that became good excuse for the Church to persecute Jews for millennia, ditto with the Quran bashing Jews, that has often contributed to anti Semitism in Muslim lands.
Hate speech leads to hate crimes.
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I told you, I will enter this discussion with you about jews when you answer the previous questions. You have run away and i think its clear now to the forum what an utter coward you are.
This question essentially clarifies YOUR initial post but I think you know, once you answer this, you will be caught )Oooh! Delightful! Now a new adjective for me! bravo An "utter coward". First racist, smeegol, non Arabic speaker etc.
What fear would I have of being caught please? Do you imagine that I am Satan? >D
I have revealed pretty much about myself, "catching" me won't defend Islam as you seem to fancy.
You have to defend Quran & Allah or Muhammad's hate speech in it.
As a non racist who despises any signs of racism, as well as a Quranist Muslim, trying to make me into a Shaitan won't make your Quran right. If the Quran's such a perfect book, why this massive insecurity of yours? Why repeated attempts to characterize me as a racist, coward etc? Will that increase the merits of the Quran, & obfuscate its flaws?
Can't the Quran withstand scrutiny on its own merits, without your attempts to blacken the character of every apostate?
So is it racism or not? Is it non racist to call Jews "donkeys with books,"?
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Sure, but that is tu quoque logical fallacy, to say that something isn't bad because so & so other people have also done it.
Saudis call blacks "abd" "zinji" etc disparagingly, racism isn't unique to them some Americans call Blacks niggers.
Does this justify or exonerate Saudi racism?
And that makes the Quran's bashing of Jews, Christians, idolators all right?
Turkey colonized Greece, that makes Netherlands' colonization of Indonesia allright?
Thats tu quoque logical fallacy again.
What these books preach is important, as they mould millions & billions of folks.
Thus if the NT bashes Jews, that became good excuse for the Church to persecute Jews for millennia, ditto with the Quran bashing Jews, that has often contributed to anti Semitism in Muslim lands.
Hate speech leads to hate crimes.
It is all right if it is the truth. If it is not the truth, it is not. Whatever the truth is.
Why don't you bash the rest? Go and bash the Jews and Christians in their sites and forums.
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First, the first criticizer of the Jews or Israelites was Yahweh Himself.
Proof please?
Anyone can criticise so & so & say God mandated such behavior. Thus anyone racist can call Blacks niggers, then make a new religion & say that the God said this.
Proof that Yahweh exists & Allah is this Yahweh.
Second, the expression donkeys with books is not insulting to the Jews specifically, but anyone who caries a book and claim to believe in it and identify himself with it but doesn't follow it is indeed like a donkey carrying books. It is not degrading to the donkey but a donkey doesn't care or know the specificities of the load on his back.
Unfortunately for you, Quran specifically mentions Jews, sure it doesn't degrade donkeys, when did I claim it degrades donkeys?
062.005
YUSUFALI The similitude of those who were charged with the (obligations of the) Mosaic Law, but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is that of a donkey which carries huge tomes (but understands them not). Evil is the similitude of people who falsify the Signs of Allah and Allah guides not people who do wrong.
PICKTHAL The likeness of those who are entrusted with the Law of Moses, yet apply it not, is as the likeness of the ass carrying books. Wretched is the likeness of folk who deny the revelations of Allah. And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR The likeness of those who were charged with the Taurat, then they did not observe it, is as the likeness of the ass bearing books, evil is the likeness of the people who reject the communications of Allah; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.
FREE MINDS The example of those who were given the Torah, but then failed to uphold it, is like the donkey that is carrying a cargo of books. Miserable indeed is the example of the people who denied the revelations of God. And God does not guide the wicked people.By specifically mentioning Jews, then comparing them with donkeys with books, Allah &\or Muhammad is insulting millions of people.