A refutation to Bro Yaseen - Polygamy is allowed in 4 23
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Can there be mother of the orphan if yatama means parentless ?
If marrying a yatama may imply marrying an underage girl doe not yatama- woman or woman-yatama i.e. a female orphan who has come to marriageable age convey the meaning which the verse tries to communicate ?
Why do you think it refers to guardians ?
It is two at the same time, three at the same time and four at the same time or meanings in these lines. If twos, threes and fours imply this then there is no problem.
I am actually most interested in knowing if this verse supports polygamy at all.
The verse you quoted at the beginning of your thread (the other one) seems to imply polygamy before the revelation, and not after. Who are being addressed in it?
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If I understood you right then the following categories in 423 starting from "Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters"....to......"wives of your sons proceeding from your loins;" also should be included for the same exception before the revelation.
I see 43 as allowing polygamy, can you explain why not ?
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I think it might be easier for me to explain if you can tell me what part of 43 implies that the men the orphan women are married off are already married themselves
We probably see this verse in totally different ways. The men does not have to be already married here ( and it does not seem to be a command only for men already married or unmarried but a general command to all men) and sets the upper limit for the number of wives a person can have at a given time.
And I don't see 43 talking about orphan women being married off.
I know there was much discussion on this but are you certain that fankihu means " marry off" ?
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if it is setting an upper limit, then why does the word word translation mean 'twos AND threes AND fours'
instead of 'twos OR threes OR fours'?Secondly, like I discussed in the other thread, if there (probably) was an excess of men over women even after losses due to war, then how can polygamy come about? Unless some men are left single?
It seems that a lot of traditional muslims seem to believe that polygamy was common in Arabia since there were more women than men, due to losses in wars, but that seems unlikely.
as for fankihu, does it only mean 'marry', or can it mean 'marry off'?
One of Samia's post seems to suggest that it depends on context, and as to whether the person referred to is a man or a woman.
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The men does not have to be already married here ( and it does not seem to be a command only for men already married or unmarried but a general command to all men)
Can it not be said that it's a general command to all men, and that, from Surah 24, the single should marry, hence, the general command only applies to SINGLE men?
(all capitalisation is for emphasis)
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Can it not be said that it's a general command to all men, and that, from Surah 24, the single should marry, hence, the general command only applies to SINGLE men?
(all capitalisation is for emphasis)
if you are referring to 2432, that verse encourages Muslim men to marry the widows in the society
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat24_files/24_32.gif
And arrange marriages for widows from among you, and for your male slaves and female slaves who are fit for marriage. If they be poor, Allah will grant them means out of HIS bounty; and Allah is Bountiful, All-Knowing. -
We probably see this verse in totally different ways. The men does not have to be already married here ( and it does not seem to be a command only for men already married or unmarried but a general command to all men) and sets the upper limit for the number of wives a person can have at a given time.
And I don't see 43 talking about orphan women being married off.
I know there was much discussion on this but are you certain that fankihu means " marry off" ?
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597268.msg181629#msg181629
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if you are referring to 2432, that verse encourages Muslim men to marry the widows in the society
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat24_files/24_32.gif
And arrange marriages for widows from among you, and for your male slaves and female slaves who are fit for marriage. If they be poor, Allah will grant them means out of HIS bounty; and Allah is Bountiful, All-Knowing.question is, are these men either single or married, or are those men referred to are single (or widowers, or divorcees)
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599421.msg230767#msg230767 -
question is, are these men either single or married, or are those men referred to are single (or widowers, or divorcees)
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599421.msg230767#msg230767both single and already married but the condition is "if you can be just" but again recommendation is that you stay married to one to avoid any injustice .
polygamy is neither prohibited nor encouraged.
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then why AND instead of OR
doesn't always mean AND, see for example
3112
They shall be smitten with abasement wherever they are found unless they are protected by a covenant with Allah or by a covenant with men. -
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I think ?AND? here is reasonable use to convey the message since just as in English language ?And? is used in Arabic to mean ?also/ as well as? as you can see the use in the following verses and also in few other places in the Quran.
337 And when We took from the prophets their covenant, "wa"/and from you, "wa"/and from Noah, and Abraham, and Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary; We took from them a strong covenant.
5568 In them are fruits "wa"/and date palms, "wa"/and pomegranate.
"Fruits" includes "pomegranates" even though they are separated by "wa"/and.So possibly ?And? covers men in all 3 situations of having 2, 3 and 4 wives together.
But with 423 and 4129 do you still think polygamy is not allowed ?
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What reason can there be to allow already married men to marry those women, when there are single men available?
I would assume that there was an excess of available men compared to the number of available women considering the possible demographic of that region.
Please see my other thread for details.