Cutting Cow's Ear/discussion

farati

I think the verse of chapter 4 which states that the devil makes people change creation of God - refers to mutiliation specifically. The reason is that it gives example of cutting cow's ear, which is painful for the poor animal.
So, intentionally mutilating someone is a sin, according to this verse.

Also I would like to point out that this verse goes hand in hand with the verse of cutting thief's hand or cutting oppressor's (those who wage war andbbring corruption) hands and legs from opposite sides. If we implement this understanding then we are violating the verse that asks us to not to change God's creation. We are not hadithers. We do not abrogate )

Thus, literally cutting off hands or legs is not the correct understanding/translation. Chapter 12 gives clear reference to this issue when the story of Joseph is mentioned. The theif is asked to "stay behind".

Now I do remember a case in my country. It happened in Azerbaijan, in some remote village. A husband cut off his wive's ear because he was jealous.

reel

I agree with you.

cutting oppressor's (those who wage war andbbring corruption) hands and legs from opposite sides

I started a thread on this one. What truly is odd about the current interpretation is that those are the same stuffs pharaoh told believers in 2071.

huruf

I agree with you.
I started a thread on this one. What truly is odd about the current interpretation is that those are the same stuffs pharaoh told believers in 2071.

Cuttin hand on opposite sides, etc. is not something that muslims should do, nobody is ever in the Qur'an ordered or suggested to do such a thing that is something that the wicked do in Qur'an at least.

Salaam

farati

I agree with you.
I started a thread on this one. What truly is odd about the current interpretation is that those are the same stuffs pharaoh told believers in 2071.

I also find it interesting. Maybe it is a simple reference to oppressors who deserve such treatment. I will take a look at the thread )

HP_TECH

None of you can choose how Allah wills to punish His servants.
You have not properly envisioned the circumstances and the conditions of war. That is why killing and cutting off members of criminals seems fetched to you.
However, imagine innocent believers being massacred and killed, persecuted, and they asking for your protection and intervention.
While the enemies who commit these atrocities against non violent individuals (not armed forces) continue to do so in an effort to demoralize and exile you. They wage war against you. But they do not only fight your armed forces they fight innocent civilians and harass and rape innocent women. They do not wish for peace and every chance they get they are relentless.

I see fit that these enemies to Truth, justice, righteousness who dare to war against Allah His Messenger and the believers should suffer any of the penalties prescribed by His Majesty's Divine Edict.

Also remember that God always reiterates in the Quran that there is no way against those who surrender and offer peace and are not hostile. So those deserving of such punishments are unrelenting inhumane treacherous villainous humans who won't quit.

Lastly, Allah lists the different punishments meaning that either they should be killed, or crucified or their hands and feet of opposite sides be cut off or they be exiled.

In your own contempt for God's Authority you yet fail to see His Mercy.
Allah gives the believers in authority the choice to either execute or spare their lives. Only two of those are executions and the last two are humiliating punishments, well deserving of those if given the chance would return to kill and harm innocents and seek to corrupt God's Way.

Have more faith and use more objectiveness and humility when approaching these matters. Allah does not err nor is He cruel. He exacts retribution PERFECTLY.

We believe in it, all of it is from our Lord.

EdQ

Changing God's Creation and cutting the ear of the cow

When a genetic modficiation experiment is done on an embryo - whether of a cow, mice, rabbit, chicken or whatever, a small part of the resulting animal is cut off to test it and to determine if the required genetic changes have been incorporated into the new organism.

Some people do this by cutting the ear of cows and other animals after these kinds of experiments to modify/change God's creation.

Just one more perspecitve...... is all....

Salam
Ed

janet

Salaam,

The root word "b-t-k" means to sever/pluck out

1 , aor. and (S,K) inf.n. , (S,)He cut it; or severed it, or cut it off, (S,K)entirely, or from its root; (TA and in like manner, , (K,) inf. n. ; (TA but is with teshdeed to denote muchness, or frequency, of the action, or its application to many objects. (S, TA.) , in the Kur , accord. to Abul'Abb?s, (TA,) means And they shall assuredly cut, or cut off, the ears of the cattle (S, * TA or, as Az thinks, slit the ears of the cattle, as they did in the time of ignorance. (TA.)
Also He plucked it out; he laid hold upon it and pulled it towards him so that it became severed from its root and plucked out; (Lth, S, * TA namely, a hair, or feather, or the like. (Lth, TA.) 2 see 1, in two places. 5 see 7. 7 It became cut; or became severed, or cut off, (S, * K,) entirely, or from its root; (TA and in like manner, . (K.)
Also It became plucked out. (Lth, TA.) (S, K) and (K) A piece, or portion, of a thing, ? ),S, K.)

B-T-K

Ibn Faris says it basically means to cut. The basic meaning of ? ? (batak) is to cut, or to get hold of feathers and wrench them out. As such ? ? (al-bitkah) the rooted out feathers. This would mean that batak) to root out, but it figuratively means to cut the ears of animals, or split them and let them( ? ? go free in the name of idols {T, M, R}. This was the practice in heathen Arabia.

The root word "a-dh-n" means ear/listening/announcement/permission/to be informed.

Alif-Dhal-Nun = he gave ear or listened to it, being pleased, grant leave, to allow, permit/ordered, be informed, advised, notification/announcement/proclamation, ear, appetite/longing/yearning.

is also used, (T,) signifies (T, Msb and also, signifies

Please refer to the link provided below for my understanding of "al an'aam" in 4119.

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606771.msg398881#msg398881

Genetic modification/engineering is a process by which genetic traits are added from one organism into the genome of another, thereby altering the DNA of the recipient. The DNA can be taken from any living or dead organism. The sources of DNA can be hair, blood, saliva, tissue, bone etc.. The DNA is isolated and extracted by literally breaking open the cell and plucking out/extracting the nucleic acids from the nucleus.

http//www.encyclopedia.com/science-and-technology/biology-and-genetics/genetics-and-genetic-engineering/dna-isolation-methods

http//sciencing.com/sample-dna-collected-prepared-study-7634.html

In a nutshell, the required genetic information is extracted from the cells and used to change God's creation.

Regards,
Janet

farati

Salaam,

The root word "b-t-k" means to sever/pluck out

1 , aor. and (S,K) inf.n. , (S,)He cut it; or severed it, or cut it off, (S,K)entirely, or from its root; (TA and in like manner, , (K,) inf. n. ; (TA but is with teshdeed to denote muchness, or frequency, of the action, or its application to many objects. (S, TA.) , in the Kur , accord. to Abul'Abb?s, (TA,) means And they shall assuredly cut, or cut off, the ears of the cattle (S, * TA or, as Az thinks, slit the ears of the cattle, as they did in the time of ignorance. (TA.)
Also He plucked it out; he laid hold upon it and pulled it towards him so that it became severed from its root and plucked out; (Lth, S, * TA namely, a hair, or feather, or the like. (Lth, TA.) 2 see 1, in two places. 5 see 7. 7 It became cut; or became severed, or cut off, (S, * K,) entirely, or from its root; (TA and in like manner, . (K.)
Also It became plucked out. (Lth, TA.) (S, K) and (K) A piece, or portion, of a thing, ? ),S, K.)

B-T-K

Ibn Faris says it basically means to cut. The basic meaning of ? ? (batak) is to cut, or to get hold of feathers and wrench them out. As such ? ? (al-bitkah) the rooted out feathers. This would mean that batak) to root out, but it figuratively means to cut the ears of animals, or split them and let them( ? ? go free in the name of idols {T, M, R}. This was the practice in heathen Arabia.

The root word "a-dh-n" means ear/listening/announcement/permission/to be informed.

Alif-Dhal-Nun = he gave ear or listened to it, being pleased, grant leave, to allow, permit/ordered, be informed, advised, notification/announcement/proclamation, ear, appetite/longing/yearning.

is also used, (T,) signifies (T, Msb and also, signifies

Please refer to the link provided below for my understanding of "al an'aam" in 4119.

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606771.msg398881#msg398881

Genetic modification/engineering is a process by which genetic traits are added from one organism into the genome of another, thereby altering the DNA of the recipient. The DNA can be taken from any living or dead organism. The sources of DNA can be hair, blood, saliva, tissue, bone etc.. The DNA is isolated and extracted by literally breaking open the cell and plucking out/extracting the nucleic acids from the nucleus.

http//www.encyclopedia.com/science-and-technology/biology-and-genetics/genetics-and-genetic-engineering/dna-isolation-methods

http//sciencing.com/sample-dna-collected-prepared-study-7634.html

In a nutshell, the required genetic information is extracted from the cells and used to change God's creation.

Regards,
Janet

I understand, but I think the verse specifically refers to mutiliation. Since it is uncivilized barbarism and Jews of Mecca practised it. Plus, it corresponds well with cutting theif's hand. Genetic modification is not mutiliation. I don't think it is bad.

The_Sardar

I understand, but I think the verse specifically refers to mutiliation. Since it is uncivilized barbarism and Jews of Mecca practised it. Plus, it corresponds well with cutting theif's hand. Genetic modification is not mutiliation. I don't think it is bad.

You might wanna see this https//gmo-awareness.com/all-about-gmos/gmo-risks/

janet

I understand, but I think the verse specifically refers to mutiliation. Since it is uncivilized barbarism and Jews of Mecca practised it. Plus, it corresponds well with cutting theif's hand. Genetic modification is not mutiliation. I don't think it is bad.

Salaam Farati,

There is no injunction in the Quran to cut off a thief's hand. Please refer to the link provided below.

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608774.msg397843#msg397843

Regards,
Janet

EdQ

I understand, but I think the verse specifically refers to mutiliation. Since it is uncivilized barbarism and Jews of Mecca practised it. Plus, it corresponds well with cutting theif's hand. Genetic modification is not mutiliation. I don't think it is bad.

It corresponds well to cutting off an ear of a cow, or a tail of another mammal.
In these cases, the creation of God is actually being modified rather then mere amputation where forgiveness could have been accepted.

farati

Salaam Farati,

There is no injunction in the Quran to cut off a thief's hand. Please refer to the link provided below.

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608774.msg397843#msg397843

Regards,
Janet

Exactly. I am saying that the verse of the cow ear is about mutilation.
Thus, it is a second proof from the Quran that cutting smth (mutilation) is haram. This proofs that the thief hand shouldn't be cut.
The first proof is chapter 12.

Here we go. Double evidence from the Quran, to debunk any claim of hadithers or islamophobes. When we use different translation, they accuse us of twisting the meaning to be more "liberal" as cutting off hands was established for many years. It is more common. With these references from the Quran we prove that THEY mistranslate the verse. Either out of ignorance or intentionally.

janet

Exactly. I am saying that the verse of the cow ear is about mutilation.
Thus, it is a second proof from the Quran that cutting smth (mutilation) is haram. This proofs that the thief hand shouldn't be cut.
The first proof is chapter 12.

Here we go. Double evidence from the Quran, to debunk any claim of hadithers or islamophobes. When we use different translation, they accuse us of twisting the meaning to be more "liberal" as cutting off hands was established for many years. It is more common. With these references from the Quran we prove that THEY mistranslate the verse. Either out of ignorance or intentionally.

Salaam Farati,

The first thought I have is that if the ayat is referring specifically to mutilation then the example of the cattle's ear is a poor one because there are better examples which could have been chosen i.e female genital mutilation, foot binding, castration and acid throwing to name a few. The second thought I have is that cutting off/slitting the ears of cattle does not necessarily alter the creation of Allah. It definitely alters the appearance of the cattle to an extent but it does not alter the creation of Allah. The creation of Allah seems to be referring to a more general form. On the other hand, plucking out genetic traits from the cells of one organism and incorporating them into the DNA of another is definitely altering the creation of Allah and this modification is being used on food, medicines, animals and humans.

Regards,
Janet

farati

Salaam Farati,

The first thought I have is that if the ayat is referring specifically to mutilation then the example of the cattle's ear is a poor one because there are better examples which could have been chosen i.e female genital mutilation, foot binding, castration and acid throwing to name a few. The second thought I have is that cutting off/slitting the ears of cattle does not necessarily alter the creation of Allah. It definitely alters the appearance of the cattle to an extent but it does not alter the creation of Allah. The creation of Allah seems to be referring to a more general form. On the other hand, plucking out genetic traits from the cells of one organism and incorporating them into the DNA of another is definitely altering the creation of Allah and this modification is being used on food, medicines, animals and humans.

Regards,
Janet

The examples you posted are not part of the practice of people at that time. Though, they are part of mutilation. Quran gives this example because it is universal for all people. For those who practiced it and those who are living today.

Cutting cows ear is a specific example. Thus, the verse "changing creation" refers to a specific thing (not general) - Mutilation.

Bender

the cattle's ear is a poor one

Totally agree, a typical primitive understanding.
Just reading it in English reads as an anti-climax (unquranic), 2 powerful statements and then something childish like that
I will mislead them (BOOM!), and I will create in them false desires (BOOM!); I will order them to slit the ears of cattle ( whatever ),

janet

Totally agree, a typical primitive understanding.
Just reading it in English reads as an anti-climax (unquranic), 2 powerful statements and then something childish like that
I will mislead them (BOOM!), and I will create in them false desires (BOOM!); I will order them to slit the ears of cattle ( whatever ),

Salaam,

I completely agree with what Bender has said. Also, from what I can see/read mutilation has been around before the advent of the Quran and female genital mutilation was being practised in parts of Arabia during the time of the prophet.

http//www.mwlusa.org/topics/violence&harrassment/fgm.html

Regards,
Janet

huruf

So what does all this amount to?

We have to bear in mind that it is Shaytaan speaking.

Does he mean something else which is not merely marking the cattle's ears?

Is he doing it on purpose to induce confusein in people like today's back and forward with plucking of eyebrows and mutilation and genetical modification so that we do not know where we stnd on this. Or should we just don't take any notice of Shaytan's voice and keep to God's voice regarding this or any other thing?

Your thoughts?

Salaam

janet

Salaam Huruf,

I think it means that the evil within us is fanned by the voice of evil that we listen to inside ourselves, and that's the function of "shaitaan". This voice feeds the corruption within the soul and encourages people to move away from the Creator and his creation. That would explain why mankind has always desired immortality and has the need to play God. Genetic engineering is one of the ways mankind can create new "creations". The link provided by The Sardar is chilling and shows us what is happening to our food, environment and bodies. It is not surprising that every one in three people will suffer from cancer at the rate we are going. We truly have defaced Allah's creation and the future is very uncertain. "Shaitaan's" announcement of creating desires in humans and altering Allah's creation is certainly true. It's a slippery slope from here indeed.

https//www.theguardian.com/science/2015/apr/23/scientists-genetically-modify-human-embryos-in-controversial-world-first

Regards,
Janet

The_Sardar

I think it means that the evil within us is fanned by the voice of evil that we listen to inside ourselves, and that's the function of "shaitaan". This voice feeds the corruption within the soul and encourages people to move away from the Creator and his creation. That would explain why mankind has always desired immortality and has the need to play God. Genetic engineering is one of the ways mankind can create new "creations". The link provided by The Sardar is chilling and shows us what is happening to our food, environment and bodies. It is not surprising that every one in three people will suffer from cancer at the rate we are going. We truly have defaced Allah's creation and the future is very uncertain. "Shaitaan's" announcement of creating desires in humans and altering Allah's creation is certainly true. It's a slippery slope from here indeed.

https//www.theguardian.com/science/2015/apr/23/scientists-genetically-modify-human-embryos-in-controversial-world-first

Regards,
Janet

Destruction of Earth Because of Polytheism, Ignorance, Nationalism, Oppression, Wars, Greed, and Waste

3041 Pollution/Corruption has appeared in the land and the sea by the hands of people for what they earned. He will make them taste some of what they have done, perhaps they will revert.

EdQ

Please read this artilce https//www.nature.com/articles/srep27185

You can do a search for "ear" if you don't want to read the methods of the paper. You can do numerous searches on Pubmed or other scientific portals to find more evidence.

A cow was made Transgenic (ie genetically modified for an introduced gene). Ear and tail tissue sections were taken and the genomic DNA was tested to see if the introduced gene was present.

It is a standard practice to cut a part of the ear of livestock animals such as cows (that for example produce human milk).

One does not want to kill the calf (which is what is tested) - the objective is to see if the introduced genetic material is present in all parts of the cow - so if it is present in an extremity such as an ear or tail, it is likely that the external gene is present in all tissues.

Once the ear or tail section shows that an animal is successful genetically modified or transgenic, it is then allowed to mature and bred in a manner to ensure propagation of the introduced genetic material.

So in conclusion, the ear is cut - and this determines if man has "successfully" changed Allah's creation.

Salam
Ed