All religions are okay?
-
Doing good deeds has nothing to do with believing in one God or a number of gods if all your gods entail good.
If you think so please debate it.
These are among the (precepts of) wisdom, which thy Lord has revealed to thee. Take not, with Allah, another object of worship, lest thou shouldst be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected. (17/39)
Good deeds or ethical precepts (expounded in 17/22-3 are inextrcably linked with the worship of one God.
-
These are among the (precepts of) wisdom, which thy Lord has revealed to thee. Take not, with Allah, another object of worship, lest thou shouldst be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected. (17/39)
Good deeds or ethical precepts (expounded in 17/22-3 are inextrcably linked with the worship of one God.
Br,
not, with Allah, another object of worship
.......and do not set up with Allah god another lest you should be thrown in Hell...
Now look at what the quran is revealing;
The first verse 1722 starts by saying do not take another with Allah , Right?
Then the ayats following 1723-38 tell us what following another means, Right?
Then Ayah 1739 tell's us AGAIN that this is wisdom for you from your lord and do not set up another god to serve.
So do you see that you can only be setting up another god when and if the wisdom obtained from the other god goes in opposition to this detail.
It's not about setting up partners with Allah who can't give instruction to you, its about him or her who gives instruction to you that is opposite to that you have obtained from Allah, That is the partnership Allah is forbidding you from, he doesn't want us following others who mislead us to hell by our mischievous action.
017.022
YUSUFALI Take not with Allah another object of worship; or thou (O man!) wilt sit in disgrace and destitution.017.023
YUSUFALI Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honour.
017.024
YUSUFALI And, out of kindness, lower to them the wing of humility, and say "My Lord! bestow on them thy Mercy even as they cherished me in childhood."
017.025
YUSUFALI Your Lord knoweth best what is in your hearts If ye do deeds of righteousness, verily He is Most Forgiving to those who turn to Him again and again (in true penitence).
017.026
YUSUFALI And render to the kindred their due rights, as (also) to those in want, and to the wayfarer But squander not (your wealth) in the manner of a spendthrift.
017.027
YUSUFALI Verily spendthrifts are brothers of the Evil Ones; and the Evil One is to his Lord (himself) ungrateful.
017.028
YUSUFALI And even if thou hast to turn away from them in pursuit of the Mercy from thy Lord which thou dost expect, yet speak to them a word of easy kindness.
017.029
YUSUFALI Make not thy hand tied (like a niggard's) to thy neck, nor stretch it forth to its utmost reach, so that thou become blameworthy and destitute.
017.030
YUSUFALI Verily thy Lord doth provide sustenance in abundance for whom He pleaseth, and He provideth in a just measure. For He doth know and regard all His servants.
017.031
YUSUFALI Kill not your children for fear of want We shall provide sustenance for them as well as for you. Verily the killing of them is a great sin.
017.032
YUSUFALI Nor come nigh to adultery for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).
017.033
YUSUFALI Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive) but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law).
017.034
YUSUFALI Come not nigh to the orphan's property except to improve it, until he attains the age of full strength; and fulfil (every) engagement, for (every) engagement will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning).
017.035
YUSUFALI Give full measure when ye measure, and weigh with a balance that is straight that is the most fitting and the most advantageous in the final determination.
017.036
YUSUFALI And pursue not that of which thou hast no knowledge; for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of (feeling in) the heart will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning).
017.037
YUSUFALI Nor walk on the earth with insolence for thou canst not rend the earth asunder, nor reach the mountains in height.
017.038
YUSUFALI Of all such things the evil is hateful in the sight of thy Lord.
017.039YUSUFALI These are among the (precepts of) wisdom, which thy Lord has revealed to thee. Take not, with Allah, another object of worship, lest thou shouldst be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected.
peace
-
Now look at what the quran is revealing;
The first verse 1722 starts by saying do not take another with Allah , Right?
Then the ayats following 1723-38 tell us what following another means, Right?
Then Ayah 1739 tell's us AGAIN that this is wisdom for you from your lord and do not set up another god to serve.
So do you see that you can only be setting up another god when and if the wisdom obtained from the other god goes in opposition to this detail.
It's not about setting up partners with Allah who can't give instruction to you, its about him or her who gives instruction to you that is opposite to that you have obtained from Allah, That is the partnership Allah is forbidding you from, he doesn't want us following others who mislead us to hell by our mischievous action.
Right, so your reasoning is as follows
- 17/22 says don't worship another God.
- 17/23-38 tells what it means to worship another God (i.e to follow other percepts of wisdom)
- 17/39 affirms that.
Ok, except for one thing. Have a look at 17/23
Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honour.
So part of the hikmah itself is to not take another god. When you take another god with Allah, you're going against the wisdom (and thus going against 17/39).
But tell me, how do you know of these 'other gods'. How do you know what wisdom the teach?
-
Right, so your reasoning is as follows
- 17/22 says don't worship another God.
- 17/23-38 tells what it means to worship another God (i.e to follow other percepts of wisdom)
- 17/39 affirms that.
Ok, except for one thing. Have a look at 17/23
Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honour.
So part of the hikmah itself is to not take another god.
no Br. it isn't part of the hikmah- the whole of the hikmah is it.
When you take another god with Allah, you're going against wisdom.
Yes.
But tell me, how do you know of these 'other gods'. How do you know what wisdom the teach?
The other gods are living gods not dead and gone who can't do anything as such.
An individual doesn't need to call him or herself god but simply command encourage to act in a wrongfull manner and they are being partners of God as they will be acting regarding the particular act in opposition to Gods authority thus on a par level with respect to the wisdom of God.
But leaders like pharoe and some others used to call themselves gods also.
peace
-
no Br. it isn't part of the hikmah- the whole of the hikmah is it.
Yes.
The other gods are living gods not dead and gone who can't do anything as such.
An individual doesn't need to call him or herself god but simply command encourage to act in a wrongfull manner and they are being partners of God as they will be acting regarding the particular act in opposition to Gods authority thus on a par level with respect to the wisdom of God.
But leaders like pharoe and some others used to call themselves gods also.
peace
Peace,
could you please define "god", i'm curious.
-
Peace,
could you please define "god", i'm curious.
Try Lanes;
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000119.pdf
The gods in the quran being talked about are people, things........e.t.c
Making dead people into gods doesn't cause any change in the cosmos as the quran said "son of God" it is a saying from their mouths only, but no more then that, but is what the unbelievers of old practiced who used to have a man who was god but carried out many a mischievous/evil deeds.
peace
-
Try Lanes;
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000119.pdf
The gods in the quran being talked about are people, things........e.t.c
Making dead people into gods doesn't cause any change in the cosmos as the quran said "son of God" it is a saying from their mouths only, but no more then that, but is what the unbelievers of old practiced who used to have a man who was god but carried out many a mischievous/evil deeds.
peace
No, not Lanes', i meant yours
-
no Br. it isn't part of the hikmah- the whole of the hikmah is it.
Look, 17/22 says it. 17/23 REPEATS it AND connects it to being good to parents etc
Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honourNot only that, there are three other ayaat which actually repeat this
4/36Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess For Allah loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious;-
6/151Say "Come, I will rehearse what Allah hath (really) prohibited you from" Join not anything as equal with Him; be good to your parents; kill not your children on a plea of want;- We provide sustenance for you and for them;- come not nigh to shameful deeds. Whether open or secret; take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.
2/83And remember We took a covenant from the Children of Israel (to this effect) Worship none but Allah; treat with kindness your parents and kindred, and orphans and those in need; speak fair to the people
So you got 4 times here. Allah says do not associate, he also mentions doing good. I hope that's clear enough for you.
The other gods are living gods not dead and gone who can't do anything as such.
Quran makes no differentiation. It says all false gods can't do anything.
An individual doesn't need to call him or herself god but simply command encourage to act in a wrongfull manner and they are being partners of God as they will be acting regarding the particular act in opposition to Gods authority thus on a par level with respect to the wisdom of God.
In a Quranic context, that's not what partners means. Such people are called 'servants' or 'believers' or even 'messengers', never partners. Kindly produce evidence and please don't tell me 'its all over Quran'. You're ok-ing shirk here.
-
Look, 17/22 says it. 17/23 REPEATS it AND connects it to being good to parents etc
Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honourNot only that, there are three other ayaat which actually repeat this
4/36Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess For Allah loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious;-
6/151Say "Come, I will rehearse what Allah hath (really) prohibited you from" Join not anything as equal with Him; be good to your parents; kill not your children on a plea of want;- We provide sustenance for you and for them;- come not nigh to shameful deeds. Whether open or secret; take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.
2/83And remember We took a covenant from the Children of Israel (to this effect) Worship none but Allah; treat with kindness your parents and kindred, and orphans and those in need; speak fair to the people
So you got 4 times here. Allah says do not associate, he also mentions doing good. I hope that's clear enough for you.
When we give the authority of Allah to another, then clearly we can be led up the garden path to doing opposite to all or some of the things mentioned above i.e do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), .........
So the subject is not to set up another illah and to do all the godly things according to Allah those listed above.
Quran makes no differentiation. It says all false gods can't do anything.
where?
As i remember Pharaoh was a false god and did a lot of wrong.
In a Quranic context, that's not what partners means. Such people are called 'servants' or 'believers' or even 'messengers', never partners. Kindly produce evidence and please don't tell me 'its all over Quran'. You're ok-ing shirk here.
People who mislead others to doing/ acting in opposition to Allah are false gods, even your desires can sometimes be false gods.They are not servents, come on you surely know this.......
peace
-
No, not Lanes', i meant yours
What god is or The God is?
-
???
Well to quote him/herself
People who mislead others to doing/ acting in opposition to Allah are false gods, even your desires can sometimes be false gods.They are not servents, come on you surely know this.......
peace
I thought he may be into something called the true/right gods.
so i asked him/her what god (gods in plural; ilah/aliha in Arabic) is (/are), in his/her own words.
without that being clear, we would have no idea about his/her understanding of "LaA Ilaaha Illa Allah".
-
What is god?
2121
Or have they taken gods from the earth who can raise (the dead)?2122
If there were, therein, other gods besides Allah, there would have been confusion in both! but glory to Allah, the Lord of the Throne (High is He) above what they attribute to Him!Original translation
2121
Or have they taken (for worship) gods from the earth who can raise (the dead)?2122
If there were, in the heavens and the earth, other gods besides Allah, there would have been confusion in both! but glory to Allah, the Lord of the Throne (High is He) above what they attribute to Him!http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11488.msg203079#msg203079
4523
Then seest thou such a one as takes as his god his own vain desire? Allah has, knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed his hearing and his heart (and understanding), and put a cover on his sight. Who, then, will guide him after Allah (has withdrawn Guidance)? Will ye not then receive admonition?This should clarify it peace
-
2121
Or have they taken gods from the earth who can raise (the dead)?2122
If there were, therein, other gods besides Allah, there would have been confusion in both! but glory to Allah, the Lord of the Throne (High is He) above what they attribute to Him!Original translation
2121
Or have they taken (for worship) gods from the earth who can raise (the dead)?2122
If there were, in the heavens and the earth, other gods besides Allah, there would have been confusion in both! but glory to Allah, the Lord of the Throne (High is He) above what they attribute to Him!http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11488.msg203079#msg203079
4523
Then seest thou such a one as takes as his god his own vain desire? Allah has, knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed his hearing and his heart (and understanding), and put a cover on his sight. Who, then, will guide him after Allah (has withdrawn Guidance)? Will ye not then receive admonition?This should clarify it peace
Thank you for your time on that.
Can you please tell us, what is the TRUE god? Or if you prefer, what are the TRUE gods?
-
Thank you for your time on that.
Can you please tell us, what is the TRUE god? Or if you prefer, what are the TRUE gods?
Okay, what is Allah or the perfect God, that has evolved man?
It is that visible state of relationship described by the attributes.
Beneficience, Mercy, kindness, politness,helpfulness, favourablness......e.t.c
Although the forces in the universe are many and diverse, it is this one particular relationship that is all powerfull.
Remember when Moses came back to the Isralites and asked them "why have you sat on your backsides since i have been away" they said "we won't leave until we see Allah (or rather until the conditions are right for them to leave)."
of course they where afraid of what pharoah might do.
Sorry this isn't the normal translation.
And i believe we are supposed to live this relationship in our daily lives, if we can.
o
-
Okay, what is Allah or the perfect God, that has evolved man?
It is that visible state of relationship described by the attributes.
Beneficience, Mercy, kindness, politness,helpfulness, favourablness......e.t.c
Although the forces in the universe are many and diverse, it is this one particular relationship that is all powerfull.
Sorry this isn't the normal translation.
And i believe we are supposed to live this relationship in our daily lives, if we can.
o
So, you have accepted ALLAH (THE GOD) as a TRUE ilah (god) -- is that correct?
-
You are wrong......There is one religion on this planet now that is behind all humanity's
sufferings on this planet. It is a wolf in sheeps clothing. At the forefront it looks very
innocent but it is made up of Sun worship which has its beginnings traced to Babylon.
It has orchestrated the 1st World War, 2nd World War and the so called war on terror
now which is living hell for Muslims around the globe. Soon it will spread its tentacles
in such a way that it will make living hell for the monotheist religions.
Currently it is manouvering its final strategy to dismantle the military machine of
Pakistan before it goes for an onslaught murder of humanity.
Its leaders are mainly homosexuals or pedophiles and are elected as popes or the title
given the Vicar of the son of God.
Our Holy Quran warned us of this Trinitarian whore but sadly the Muslim world is not
paying close attention to details. We will have to act now before it is too late.
The Injil chapter of Revelation has described this Beast in great symbological detail
alongwith its False Prophet. This two forces of evil is currently on an evil crusade
against Allah's true people and they will not stop till they establish Jerusalem as
their final temple of worship.
My dear brothers and sisters I am speaking about the Roman Catholic Religion which
is headquartered in the Vatican. This entity is controlling all the kings and nations
of the earth through their deceptive mask of Christianity which is actually Lucifer
and Sun Worship.
The Beast is Rome with the USA as the false prophet which is used by the idolatrous
church to make the nations of the world succumb to it.
Check who is Obama, Bush, Kerry, Clinton and many others answering to. Where do
their directives come from. Who is the ruling cardinal of the USA who reports personally
to Rome? Do your homework my brothers and sisters and see who is the real antichrist.
THE ANTICHRIST IS THE ONE WHO HAS BEEN HIDING BEHIND THE IMAGE OF CHRIST
ALL THIS WHILE WITHOUT ANYONE REALISING IT.THIS RELIGION IS NOT OK.
-
You are wrong......There is one religion on this planet now that is behind all humanity's
sufferings on this planet. It is a wolf in sheeps clothing. At the forefront it looks very
innocent but it is made up of Sun worship which has its beginnings traced to Babylon.
It has orchestrated the 1st World War, 2nd World War and the so called war on terror
now which is living hell for Muslims around the globe. Soon it will spread its tentacles
in such a way that it will make living hell for the monotheist religions.
Currently it is manouvering its final strategy to dismantle the military machine of
Pakistan before it goes for an onslaught murder of humanity.
Its leaders are mainly homosexuals or pedophiles and are elected as popes or the title
given the Vicar of the son of God.
Our Holy Quran warned us of this Trinitarian whore but sadly the Muslim world is not
paying close attention to details. We will have to act now before it is too late.
The Injil chapter of Revelation has described this Beast in great symbological detail
alongwith its False Prophet. This two forces of evil is currently on an evil crusade
against Allah's true people and they will not stop till they establish Jerusalem as
their final temple of worship.
My dear brothers and sisters I am speaking about the Roman Catholic Religion which
is headquartered in the Vatican. This entity is controlling all the kings and nations
of the earth through their deceptive mask of Christianity which is actually Lucifer
and Sun Worship.
The Beast is Rome with the USA as the false prophet which is used by the idolatrous
church to make the nations of the world succumb to it.
Check who is Obama, Bush, Kerry, Clinton and many others answering to. Where do
their directives come from. Who is the ruling cardinal of the USA who reports personally
to Rome? Do your homework my brothers and sisters and see who is the real antichrist.
THE ANTICHRIST IS THE ONE WHO HAS BEEN HIDING BEHIND THE IMAGE OF CHRIST
ALL THIS WHILE WITHOUT ANYONE REALISING IT.THIS RELIGION IS NOT OK.
Interestingly enough there are some Christian religions that believe the Roman Catholic Church is the anti-Christ, or at least serves him. Each pope has been accused of being the anti-Christ many times.