Fundamental issues within Believers
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Salaam,
I have been pondering about this for a while. There seems to be a fundamental divide within the believers yet we all claim to be following the Quran. Edip believes that Masjid Al Haraam is in Mecca and prayer involves physical movements such as standing, bowing and prostrating. Waqas on the other hand believes Masjid Al Haram could be any place where the event of Hajj takes place and prayer is about reading the Quran and submitting to its commands. My research about Masjid Al Haram is that it is the dome of the Rock in Jerusalem and that prayer is about reading the Quran and following it. Everyone is free to believe as they want. However, it confuses me that we as believers are not in line with each other on such a fundamental issue. Praying towards Mecca which is certainly the hub of idol worshipping activities is certainly something which can not be trivialized. I have heard the arguments that as believers who are following the Quran only approach we should not simply be destroying all the old paradigms related to worshipping God. I can certainly understand the validity of this argument but looking in the Quran I am unable to find verses supporting facing a black stone and kneeling in front of it. Hoping to start a comversation on how we can agree on these fundamental issues. -
Peace,
There is no actual divide, it is merely a difference of opinion/interpretation, the important thing here is not letting these differences come between us and split us into groups, I think that we can do that by keeping in mind that god is the only one who knows the true interpretation of the quran (37)
The only thing we can do is discuss but at the end of the day, not everyone will agree on one thing, to me 'masjid al-haram' is being in a state of subservience to god concerning the things that he has forbidden us from, my interpretation might change in the future based on new findings, but for now, this one makes perfect sense to me.God bless! sun
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peace,
Waqas on the other hand believes Masjid Al Haram could be any place where the event of Hajj takes place...
The above is incorrect
Conclusion of parts 1, 2, 3
The Quranic evidence weighs the evidence in favour of SJD meaning "to submit/honour/pay respect", "masjid" meaning "time of SJD", "al masjid al haram" meaning "the inviolable time of SJD" (i.e. the term referring to the time-period/event of the inviolable months). This understanding provides a logical, coherent and practical answer throughout, and helps answer some of the most difficult questions in Quran exegesis (e.g. 171-8, 1760, 4827, 2142-150).In any case, whilst it may seem these are fundamental aspects, they are not (in my view).
The fundamentals are simple
belief in one God
lead a righteous life = do good deedsUnfortunately many people prefer to focus on the differences rather than what we have in common.
The Quran shows wisdom/insight with regards to this.
2148 And for each is a direction/goal he turns towards it, so race (to) the good deeds. Wherever that you will be, God will bring you (all) together. God is on every thing Able/Powerful.
548 ...for each of you We have made laws, a structure. Had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you, so race (to) the good deeds. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute.
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please please please do not say the word "divide!!"
we should be one...differences will remain but its okay as long as everyone is humane and just -
Masjid al Haram, i think here to the state of our mind, theres no special significance to that place or direction, as Quran clearly clarifies, East or west doesnt matters.
The state of mind here is the "Sacredness of God and the ignorance of Man" and thats the truth and there may be thousands of other attributes of God like the Most powerfull, Most merciful, the guidance giver etc etc... that makes us submit to him, but the "Sacredness of Him" is the ultimate truth as it brings humility and shatters our ego like none other.
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There seems to be a fundamental divide within the believers yet we all claim to be following the Quran.
Edip believes that Masjid Al Haraam is in Mecca and prayer involves physical movements such as standing, bowing and prostrating. Waqas on the other hand believes Masjid Al Haram could be any place where the event of Hajj takes place and prayer is about reading the Quran and submitting to its commands
RED difference of opinion is what make you learn the flaws of a design
difference of opinion occurs when somebody interpret the things aaccording to their own lens and understandings..
example , a book from history (bukhari) interpreted that earth is flat and people make an opinion under his understanding making it unite on one thing that earth is flat .. becoz quran say so..
did quran really said it?
centuries after we discovered earth is not really flat.. the difference of opinion must need to update and try to find the better and scientific information what our early scholars used at that time according to the resources and facilities what they have...
blindly following even the verses of quran (by somebodys else lens) is not a practice encouraged by quran itself..(1736)
its illogical to unite on things what we have no knowledge of according to (37)
BOLD part
about rituals i feel the way/method of remembering God is different from person to person and nation to nation..depend on how one understand the ritual by its bone..
people need to understand if something is not from God commands and you forcefully address it to God then possible drawbacks you will encounter from time to time...
lets see a simple experiment
traditional muslim salat = information aquired from books
difference of opinion = sunni do ritual salat differently , shia do differently , ahle hadith do differently ...
difference in times , difference in what they read , difference in what method they use...
in their salat the flaws with respect to quran = sunni associate/add last prophet and abraham in their salat, shia associate ahle bait in their salat...(while quran is saying the salat is only for God and i just think did prophet(PBUH) himself also say shahada in his salat ?)
in their salat shia physically prostrate on ground with a solid rock.. while sunni oppose it...
in their salat shia read without tieing their hands , while sunni do it with hands tie to eachother some on chest some on belly..
in their salat one finish with salam and one finish without salam by physically moving head from right to left...salat of God alone muslim = from the source that claimed the words from God.. (quran alone)
in their salat they find this root is much broader than traditional pray so need to fit in all occurences by cross referencing of quran..
you can still sujood,bow and stand in your salat and can read quran in your salat.. (up to you)
and moreover its a part of salat.. not a full salat...
like the word salat = commitment, learning process, remembering of God in group or alone,turn towards the system of God, pray, tasbeeh , feeding the poor, encourage to support orphans(107) and lot more things that word salat contain in it...
the difference of opinion of God alone people is on time salat which is also a catagory of broad word "salat"
now according to quran 2 confirm time salt and their names are mention
the traditional defination of salat =5 times ritual pray
quranic defination of salat = time salat as well as other learning processes that establish the just/perfect order of system ..NOTE difference of opinion only comes from the school of thoughts.. when we united under a label of any school of thought then its mean we are blindly following the one who created that school of though.. then when we born we inherited that gift either we accept it or reject it..
peace.. -
Salaam,
I have been pondering about this for a while. There seems to be a fundamental divide within the believers yet we all claim to be following the Quran. Edip believes that Masjid Al Haraam is in Mecca and prayer involves physical movements such as standing, bowing and prostrating. Waqas on the other hand believes Masjid Al Haram could be any place where the event of Hajj takes place and prayer is about reading the Quran and submitting to its commands. My research about Masjid Al Haram is that it is the dome of the Rock in Jerusalem and that prayer is about reading the Quran and following it. Everyone is free to believe as they want. However, it confuses me that we as believers are not in line with each other on such a fundamental issue. Praying towards Mecca which is certainly the hub of idol worshipping activities is certainly something which can not be trivialized. I have heard the arguments that as believers who are following the Quran only approach we should not simply be destroying all the old paradigms related to worshipping God. I can certainly understand the validity of this argument but looking in the Quran I am unable to find verses supporting facing a black stone and kneeling in front of it. Hoping to start a comversation on how we can agree on these fundamental issues.Salam,
From what I have seen, Hadithists arbitrarily decide a path, assign it to the Prophet - say it is the "Hadith" and then make it religion.
Quranists take is that we answer to God alone and not to the Shaykhans - so we try and read the Quran and understand it as part of our faith.
As someone has already said, there is bound to be differences, but the important thing is that we try sincerely to understand for ourselves.
Remember that the ISIS Wahabi "Islam" also comes from the Hadith and not from the Quran. So, as destabilizing as some of the interpretations may be, from the Quran-only Muslims, we should check them for ourselves. That's my view anyway. -
Salaam,
I have been pondering about this for a while. There seems to be a fundamental divide within the believers yet we all claim to be following the Quran. Edip believes that Masjid Al Haraam is in Mecca and prayer involves physical movements such as standing, bowing and prostrating. Waqas on the other hand believes Masjid Al Haram could be any place where the event of Hajj takes place and prayer is about reading the Quran and submitting to its commands. My research about Masjid Al Haram is that it is the dome of the Rock in Jerusalem and that prayer is about reading the Quran and following it. Everyone is free to believe as they want. However, it confuses me that we as believers are not in line with each other on such a fundamental issue. Praying towards Mecca which is certainly the hub of idol worshipping activities is certainly something which can not be trivialized. I have heard the arguments that as believers who are following the Quran only approach we should not simply be destroying all the old paradigms related to worshipping God. I can certainly understand the validity of this argument but looking in the Quran I am unable to find verses supporting facing a black stone and kneeling in front of it. Hoping to start a comversation on how we can agree on these fundamental issues.Most who have Mecca as their direction of Salat and place of Pilgrimage do so because the sectarians do without real proof.
It's not just that, but also this month, they are following what the sectarians do; that is fasting in a month while they're unaware of. There's no proof from Quran that the 9th lunar month is the month of Ramadhan - this lie comes from Hadith, and also another lie from Hadith is that the calendar is only a lunar calendar, while in Quran it's clearly luni-solar calendar.Everyone should take verse 1736 more seriously.
Salam
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Most who have Mecca as their direction of Salat and place of Pilgrimage do so because the sectarians do without real proof.
It's not just that, but also this month, they are following what the sectarians do; that is fasting in a month while they're unaware of. There's no proof from Quran that the 9th lunar month is the month of Ramadhan - this lie comes from Hadith, and also another lie from Hadith is that the calendar is only a lunar calendar, while in Quran it's clearly luni-solar calendar.Everyone should take verse 1736 more seriously.
Salam
Whilst many people are holding their Ramadan fasts over this month, there are many others who are holding them at nearly every month of the year.
What it takes to define a clear time for performing the fast is careful research because if new Quran-only Muslims were to simply follow a new direction then it would not be an improvement.The important thing for me is that fasting improves humans because it detaches us from the lowness of this life (via the food and drink) - it also teaches us self-restraint.
With this in mind, fasting could actually take place all the year round. Indeed last year I used to fast every 3 or 5 days a week for several months.For me now, it is important to understand when Ramadan is and what it means. In the meantime I am holding my Ramadan in this Hadithist month as it is still a way for me to get close to God and read the Quran every day to try and understand it better.
I hope that for next year, I will have a clearer handle on the concept of Ramadan according to the Quran alone.
Salam
Ed
