I challenge all Quranists.
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salam stranger1990,
I have a question, do Ahlu Alsunnah Waljammah perform salat the same way that prophet Muhammed PBUH did?Yeah we try to.
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Salaam,
As someone has suggested, you better learn Arabic and study Quran yourself. Instead of relying on this
ok. I should have been more specific. What I meant when I said primary source of Islam, we consider ourselves the primary source of all these sects that call themselves Muslims that came out early and later in the Islamic history. Like Shiaism, sufiism, etc.
I'll tell it bluntly no, the reference for ISLAM is not you yourselves but it is Alqur'aan.
Let me repeat the suggestion again learn Arabic and study Quran yourself. You have intelligence, Sight, Hearing, Heart -- use all that to study everything needed to study Alqur'aan.
It is your own responsibility.
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Also anyone who studies Quran without understanding Arabic is a bigger fool ;D Probably about 3/4 of the muslim population will fit into this criteria.
Peace
translations are like a very basic tafseer book, reading it is not studying it.
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Also anyone who studies Quran without understanding Arabic is a bigger fool Grin Probably about 3/4 of the muslim population will fit into this criteria.
translations are like a very basic tafseer book, reading it is not studying it.
Did he mention "translations/tafseer"? or did he mention "understanding Arabic"?
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I don't see any contradiction, Uthmani is very clear for me.
According to your sunni history, the Quran wasn't even compiled into a book during the time of the Prophet! Can you imagine the Prophet leaving the preservation of the Quran to CHANCE? He was told by Allah in Q 5/67
O Messenger! make reach which hath been sent to thee from thy Lord. If thou didst not, thou wouldst not have fulfilled and proclaimed His mission
Despite this clear declaration, you guys have said stuff like verse of the Quran have been FORGOTTEN due to being eaten by goats! Have a read of 'Introduction to the Sciences of the Quran' by Abu Ammar Yasir Qadhi. You guys have betrayed the Quran, im sorry to say.
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I read that hadith long time ago but you'll say ah Muslim/Bukhari these are not evidents.
On the contrary, I too have read ahadith similar to what you said, but NOT exactly like you said it. I want you to cite the specific hadith, so we can see if it says what you say. It really is quite a simple request.
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Slakm all,
I think that when the verse was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad he should do explain to his companions if he didn't explain to them, then the verse must be interpreted in many segments, or it might be chaotic among the companions about the verses. On the other hand, his companions must asked the Prophet when their had got the questions about the clue of the verses. However, the practiced of the Prophet according to God revealed must be the best pattern of conduct and clear among the companions. I do believe that all the practiced of the prophet must be told and remembered by his companions and would be tradition for centuries after the Prophet passed away. In my opinion Imam Bukhari did a great job in collecting the prophetic traditions. I don?t believe all words of Bukhari, but I read the Qur-an and compared with Bukhari. I realized that when you read the book of Buhkari liken to read the historic book. We have been reading many books since we could read as; Scientific book, business book and etc. But some theories we can get and some we can deny. Allah Stated
"And We have sent down to you the Book with truth, authenticating what is present of the Book and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute." (The Message 54
They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say 'In them is great harm, and a benefit for mankind; but their harm is greater than their benefit.' And they ask you how much are they to give, Say 'The excess.' It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think." (The Message 2219)
Can you explain the underlined words?
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Slakm all,
I think that when the verse was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad he should do explain to his companions if he didn't explain to them, then the verse must be interpreted in many segments, or it might be chaotic among the companions about the verses. On the other hand, his companions must asked the Prophet when their had got the questions about the clue of the verses. However, the practiced of the Prophet according to God revealed must be the best pattern of conduct and clear among the companions. I do believe that all the practiced of the prophet must be told and remembered by his companions and would be tradition for centuries after the Prophet passed away. In my opinion Imam Bukhari did a great job in collecting the prophetic traditions. I don?t believe all words of Bukhari, but I read the Qur-an and compared with Bukhari. I realized that when you read the book of Buhkari liken to read the historic book. We have been reading many books since we could read as; Scientific book, business book and etc. But some theories we can get and some we can deny. Allah Stated
"And We have sent down to you the Book with truth, authenticating what is present of the Book and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute." (The Message 54
They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say 'In them is great harm, and a benefit for mankind; but their harm is greater than their benefit.' And they ask you how much are they to give, Say 'The excess.' It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think." (The Message 2219)
Can you explain the underlined words?
The underline words are about the Torah and Gospel and Quran. Ironically the Sunnis have a hadith about stoning adulterers for these verses and they use these verses to justify a theocracy. Yet they somehow forgot the Gospel. Ain't no theocracy there. It just shows how the Quran understands terminolgy different than how we have been told to understand them.
As far as the alcohol. Yes alcohol has great harm and benefits as everybody can see however societies can do without alcohol. Money also has benefits and harm and so does red meat and oil or salt. I see moderation as a key here.
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The underline words are about the Torah and Gospel and Quran. Ironically the Sunnis have a hadith about stoning adulterers for these verses and they use these verses to justify a theocracy. Yet they somehow forgot the Gospel. Ain't no theocracy there. It just shows how the Quran understands terminolgy different than how we have been told to understand them.
Disagreed. Lets analyse 5/48 again
And We have sent down to thee the Book with truth, confirming what is between its two hands, and assuring it. So judge between them according to what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires, to forsake the truth that has come to thee. To every one We have placed of you a right way and an open road If God had willed, He would have made you one nation; but that He may try you in what has come to you. So be you forward in good works; unto God shall you return, all together; and He will tell you of that whereon you were at variance.
Some points about 5/48
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The book with truth (al-kitab bil haqq) is the Quran itself. Al-quran is 'al-haqq' (41/53) and its the tafseel/detailing of al-kitab (10/37)
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5/48 tells us to judge with al-kitab bil haqq and not their own desires. At this point, it does not tell the reader that other books are included. So its either Quran or your desires.
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To 'every one We have placed of you' (li kulli ja'alnaa minkum) cannot be read as for religious communities (i.e. jews and christians) because the 'you' (kum) here is the same 'kum' is used in the phrase 'made you one nation' ('la ja'aalaKUM ummatan wahidat'. This 'you' if we see 2/213 refers to an-naas/humankind, not three religious groups.
The Quran NEVER approves of 3 religious books. This is a myth.
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well you call others sects don't you? and you call yourself the true Islam, but you're a very small minority, doesn't that make you a sect? and your movement is pretty new.
Actually if you look at history, the Muslims who disbelieve/have doubts about using hadiths is not a "new" thing.
"The existence of early controversies about the Hadith is widely recognized by scholars of Hadith" (Musa, Aisha. Hadith as Scripture. 7.).
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Hello, I'm a Sunni I challenge all of you to prove one or 2 things to me
1- your sect is the only true one
2- Ahlu Alsunnah Waljammah are false
you can use any time of history, any hadith, anything you want but no mocking, I won't answer anyone mocking.
I hope you accept my challenge and have a nice day.
Peace all,
To Stranger 1990, can you convince me that Stoning to Death is God's Punishment for married person who commits Adultery.
And why do you think that when doing so, stoning to death, you are not violating God's Quranic Laws (i.e., Kaffer), and your are not associating with God what He did not reveal in Quran (i.e., Moshirk).
peace TWO Major Sins are committed by Sunni, just for Believing in Stoning to Death. Moshrik and Kaffer will have Eternal Life sentence in Hellfire. -
Yes, this is attested to by Quran itself
And We sent down the Book to thee for the express purpose, that thou shouldst make clear to them those things in which they differ
How do you go from 'teach' to 'interpret' ? Quran NEVER says to the prophet 'interpret' (afsiru).
His sayings THAT WERE REMEMBERED? You mean to tell me, this vital ingredient to understanding the Quran was left to chance? Is that why the ulema cant agree to who a sahaba is? Sir, you really need to come to reality. Have a read of Zubair Siddiqui's 'Hadith Literature' which is a classic in the field of hadith studies.
.Yes and the word for 'people' is 'an-naas' which includes muslims. Since when have Muslims stopped becoming part of an-naas?
Because its not up for discussion. This thread was started and defined by you so lets stick to the topic at hand.
He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.37
I'm sure the first who knows the Tawil of Qur'an is Allah then applies to Prophet Muhammad first (he sent him to teach them the Qur'an and it wisdom) then applies to the righteous Sahaba who spent a lot of time studying at his hand then applies to the people after them who studied at there hands.
you see not anyone can interpret the Qur'an and verses differ.
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Actually if you look at history, the Muslims who disbelieve/have doubts about using hadiths is not a "new" thing.
"The existence of early controversies about the Hadith is widely recognized by scholars of Hadith" (Musa, Aisha. Hadith as Scripture. 7.).
Another outstanding allegation of this book is the possibility that the 'ahl kalam' who were long thought to be the rationalist theologians may have actually been quraniyoon as 'ahl kalam' could have been short for 'ahl kalamullah'.
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For these who say includes Ridah (Apostasy)
or war of Apostasy is clear example that it's not ok for a Muslim to leave his faith after he believed.
Abu Bakkir fought these who refused the Zakkah and refused the deen after they accepted it, he didn't tell them
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He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.37
I'm sure the first who knows the Tawil of Qur'an is Allah then applies to Prophet Muhammad first (he sent him to teach them the Qur'an and it wisdom) then applies to the righteous Sahaba who spent a lot of time studying at his hand then applies to the people after them who studied at there hands.
you see not anyone can interpret the Qur'an and verses differ.
This ayah says so besides Allah the rasikhoon fil ilm know the tawil. It doesn't say Muhammad or sahaba or whatever. Anyone who has the requisite knowledge can understand the so-called 'allegorical ayaat'.
Once again, you will never find in Quran that the Prophet was told to explain (fasara/yafsiru) the Quran. Never. It's simply not his job. What you think are explanations of the Quran by the Prophet are actually diversions from the Quran by Arab traditions.
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For these who say includes Ridah (Apostasy)
or war of Apostasy is clear example that it's not ok for a Muslim to leave his faith after he believed.
Abu Bakkir fought these who refused the Zakkah and refused the deen after they accepted it, he didn't tell them
First off, I reject this story. But lets say it was true. So what? Abu Bakr isn't my criteria, Quran is. And as I told you in 10/99
And if your Lord had pleased, surely all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them; will you then force MANKIND till they become believers?
10/99 shows that under no circumstances can you force people to believe. As I told you, laa ikraha fee ad-deen doesn't say 'when they enter' . There simply isnt any karh at all.
