Question about "Ittaharro" after "Junub"
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Salam.
A poster on this forum said the following
"Ejaculation for men and is called in the Quran Junub, Allah in 65 ordered us to do Wudu by washing a specific body parts, however He told us that if we are Junub then we need to "Ittaharro" without specifying which body part, therefore it has to mean the whole body."
I've seen other posters too saying the same thing.
Since I don't speak Arabic, I'm interested in more details regarding the word "Ittaharro," and why this person says "without specifying which body part, therefore it has to mean the whole body."
Can someone explain this? For example, after sex it does make sense to bathe the whole body, and this is also commanded in the Qur'an as far as I know. But what about a wet dream? I just don't understand why we need to wash our hair if we ejaculated without having sex, whether it be through masturbation or a wet dream. It makes sense to wash your private parts and remove all traces of semen, but why a complete bath including the hair?
How does Ittaharro without specifying a body part mean "wash your entire body from head to toe?" I'm really interested in this. It's been bothering me for a long time.
Peace,
Amidpeace
Ghusul , means washing with water, if you read 4-43 and 5-6 , it clearly mentions the body parts after the word , Fa Ghasilu, and when ever no such body part is mentioned it
would mean a Bath ,so Ghusul" means Bath,
Had God wanted you to wash your sexual organs only, He would have mentioned them after the word Hatta taghtasilloo , just like the way it is being mentioned in 4-43 and 5-6
some more from one of my previous posts,
5-6, .. Wa in kuntum junabaaen wa taharroo,,,, this is probably the first order decalring the 4 step wadu and if one is in a state of junnab ( sexual encounter resulting into discharge of semen) stating a requirement to purify ones self by cleaning. As this cleaning/purifying was ambiguous, so in 4-43 this cleansing has been elaborated upon, by declaring it a "Ghusul" (washing with water)
4-43 ,,, wala junabaan illa Abri sabeelin hatta taghtasillooo,,,, not only that Tahroo is explained as to be Ghusalloo, but a concession sub clause is also added to the subject, which is
If one is in a state of Junanaba but is out on a road somewhere , then he does not need to take a Ghusal, probably a wadu with water will suffice, or if one does not find water then Tayyammam with soil.
you must also note, That there are only two conditions which prohibit you from salat,
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Intoxication , till you get back to your senses and understand what you are saying.
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junab, unless you Taharoo your self by Ghusul, ( a concession is granted to a traveller if he cant take a Ghusul)
siki
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Peace
As I said before, it is up to Amid to decide how he wishes to interpret, otherwise, if we interpret for him, he is taking us as partners beside The God, which defeats the whole point of being a Muslim...
There is a range of safe possibilities, as there always is that Allah allows, and it is between Allah and us, as individuals and communities to decide the best course for us...
So Ightassil can mean bath and also means clean with water the body, it does not specify how thoroughly, for how long, and does not emphasize which parts, so let us allow the recipients leeway as Allah has allowed too, if it was left open, it is also for a reason, as many other matters in the Quran...
This is the mature course... -
Peace
As I said before, it is up to Amid to decide how he wishes to interpret, otherwise, if we interpret for him, he is taking us as partners beside The God, which defeats the whole point of being a Muslim...
There is a range of safe possibilities, as there always is that Allah allows, and it is between Allah and us, as individuals and communities to decide the best course for us...
So Ightassil can mean bath and also means clean with water the body, it does not specify how thoroughly, for how long, and does not emphasize which parts, so let us allow the recipients leeway as Allah has allowed too, if it was left open, it is also for a reason, as many other matters in the Quran...
This is the mature course...I interpret it to clean and wash that which is unclean (in this case, the genitals and surrounding area). User siki seems to disagree. Of course there are others who disagree as well.
God knows best.
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56
...and if you are filthy, then become clean (how does one become clean? O you who believe, if you rise to attend the assembly, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe you heads and your feet to the ankles); and if you are ill or traveling or you have excreted, or you have sexually touched the women, and you could not find water, then you shall do ablution from clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands...If Ghusl = whole body, how come the tayammum only prescribes face and hands?
443
O you who believe, do not come near the assembly while you are drunk, until you know what you are saying. Nor dirty, except for travellers, until you wash (aren't we told how to wash in 56?). And if you are ill or traveling or one of you has excretion or you had sexual contact with the women, and could not find water then you shall make ablution with clean soil by wiping your faces and hands. God is Pardoning, Forgiving.
Ghusl to me is the ablution. Suggesting that ghusl = washing your whole body is an extrapolation. It just does not fit the context. 3842, while an excellent reference is irrelevant contextually, because we are told wash/ghusl a specific way.
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If Ghusl = whole body, how come the tayammum only prescribes face and hands?
443
i think tayamum is about practicality - ie. if there is no water - when might that have occured? when travelling maybe? so if you're being practical, then it doesnt make sense to strip down and "bathe" in clean soil... whereas a wiping the hands & face is doable.
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Peace Jack,
Wudhu = Ablution (specific)
Ightisal = Wash (indefinite)
I agree. I am just saying that we are told specifically how to wash i.e. contextually the wash = ablution.
review your cross-reference better in AQ.
You can do better than this Show me how I messed up. I am afraid i'll have to see concrete evidence for ghusl =bathing the whole body.
i think tayamum is about practicality - ie. if there is no water - when might that have occured? when travelling maybe? so if you're being practical, then it doesnt make sense to strip down and "bathe" in clean soil... whereas a wiping the hands & face is doable.
Sure, agreed. It's about practicality. But 'wipe the face and hands' is used specifically for the ablution. Could be a coincidence...or maybe not.
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Peace Jack, ay,
no need to split hair.
I told you the meanings in the arabic which was taught to me by my arabic parents in childhood, up to you what you do.
For me, ghasl is easir than ablution, the way I do it anyway, but it is my way.
I just run a warm bath, jump in it, then come out, dry myself, and that's it.
If there is time, I will allow myself the luxury to soak in it for 15 mins, very pleasant, and if less time, a 3 mins shower (if available) will do.
No fuss, unless you are allergic to water lol...
Of course every few days, a good bath with soap, shampoo etc, but thats for hygiene, which is important too, anyways...
You can have dry ablution as a replacement for either normal ablution or ghusl...
This is part of the grammar of living of the Arab muslims, no need for hadith, it is ingrained and carved from parents to children, like burying the dead, the basics of the language (even if the urban people try their best to add sophistication and corruption to those as we can see), starting a fire, etc. (all taught by Allah at one stage or another through Messengers or inspiration anyway).Salaam
Idriss.III
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Peace everyone,
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I intentionally made a point on efficiency, because unlike us (my assumption), not everyone have access to abundance of clean water.
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Can anyone please show me where the word Wudu (Arabic al-wuū is mentioned in Alqur'aan? Or is this only our own terms to define the "washing of our body parts" defined in 56? (the only occurence of this word i found is related to 56, not in Alqur'aan itself but in Tafsir AljalaAlayn)
Please do what you deem as best for your own self and for your community.
Peace
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So are you now saying that it DOES say to wash ourselves from head to toe after junub? ???
Hey i didn't say that. I'm only showing a verse (3842) where it is said "here, a cool bathing/washing water", without anything specified. It's like showing, "here is a pool, the water is cool, you can take a bath here". While in 443 and 56, the washing/G-s-l is already specified.
3842, while an excellent reference is irrelevant contextually, because we are told wash/ghusl a specific way.
As above. Seems my view is similar to Jack's in reply #20 (except for a very minor detail) -- for the reason explained in my previous post reefficiency (not everyone could afford the luxury of a full clean-water bath every time he wishes).
Peace
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Peace san
The word wudu is not mentioned in the Quran, it labels the steps used to wash before performance of salat in 56,
as opposed to ittaharu which is the spiritual aspect of cleaning (ightasil) one's whole body with water.Salaam
Idriss.III
Peace everyone,
- Can anyone please show me where the word Wudu (Arabic al-wuū is mentioned in Alqur'aan? Or is this only our own terms to define the "washing of our body parts" defined in 56? (the only occurence of this word i found is related to 56, not in Alqur'aan itself but in Tafsir AljalaAlayn)
Please do what you deem as best for your own self and for your community.
Peace
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Peace san
The word wudu is not mentioned in the Quran, it labels the steps used to wash before performance of salat in 56,
as opposed to ittaharu which is the spiritual aspect of cleaning (ightasil) one's whole body with water.Salaam
Idriss.III
Salaam Idriss/theNabster,
That second point was rhetorical but thank you for confirming.
And no, my point remains (in point #1 which is somehow missing in your reply) clean efficiently.Peace
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Salaam Idriss/theNabster,
That second point was rhetorical but thank you for confirming.
And no, my point remains (in point #1 which is somehow missing in your reply) clean efficiently.Peace
That you have to find a way around it using your common sense and ijtihad (say if you do not have the luxury of having enough water ;D )
and efficiently for what purpose? to avoid swine flu? to look good, not dusty? for surgery?
you make do with what you have... will you say chlorine or fluoride in the water is a problem?
You see, Allah leaves it open, but reminded us by admonishing the People of the Book not to exaggerate in the System of Faith.
So clean your body with water is clean your body your water as you know it, wherever you happen to be, within the constraints of your environment... -
That you have to find a way around it using your common sense and ijtihad (say if you do not have the luxury of having enough water ;D )
and efficiently for what purpose? to avoid swine flu? to look good, not dusty? for surgery?
you make do with what you have... will you say chlorine or fluoride in the water is a problem?
You see, Allah leaves it open, but reminded us by admonishing the People of the Book not to exaggerate in the System of Faith.
So clean your body with water is clean your body your water as you know it, wherever you happen to be, within the constraints of your environment...True. We only need to think of (or better, experience ourselves) a community/place when/where there is clean water, but there is also a serious lack of clean water. Our view of what 'exaggeration' is might change by then.
And oh, no, suddenly in the night just before Fajr, someone got a dream and...
Peace peace